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Daredhnu
18-10-2008, 11:37
after watching star wars last night i wanted to make stats for Darth Vader, so i did.
now I'd like to know how you guys envision him to be stat wise, or other star wars characters for that matter.
anyway here he comes.


Darth Vader
Ws: 80 / Bs: 40 / S: 100 / T: 80 / I: 60 / Wp: 80 / Sg: 60 / Nv: 80 / Ld: 100
Equipment:
- light saber (power sword), carapace on all locations,
average bionic arms, legs, lungs & heart, average auto senses inbuilt in helmet
Special Abilities:
- leader, heroic (?villainous?), deflect shot, feint
Force Powers: (psychic powers)
- detection, choke, psychic impel, telekinesis
Special Rules:
- Darth Vader may not move at a faster pace than "walking"

Force Powers are not subject to psychic overload and are not risky actions

i have limited myself to basically the Inq rulebook except for the force power special rules.


but as is how do you think this represents Darth Vader in Inquisitor? (please note that i have only made approximations of his stats they may vary a few points up or down)
how do you think Darth Vader or any other Star Wars character for that matter would be represented in Inquisitor?

Im not saying1
18-10-2008, 16:31
I would have thought that his bionics would be a little more than just "average" as the Emporer himself had them grafted onto his body. I would assume they would be advanced because he has the entirity of the Empire's funds to spend on him.

Daredhnu
18-10-2008, 17:19
well what's advanced for star wars might not be so for 40k but maybe you are right.
the heightened movement just didn't do it for me really cause he always seems to move at a fairly calm pace.

if more people feel he needs to have advanced bionics though instead of average let me know and i'll change it.

DapperAnarchist
26-10-2008, 19:24
Star Wars characters wouldn't be represented in Inquisitor... simple as that.

Daredhnu
28-10-2008, 16:22
Star Wars characters wouldn't be represented in Inquisitor... simple as that.

well mister negative if that is how you feel why do you even bother to reply?
you don't have to use stuff from other fictional universes but if say you wanted to you could.

and i'm not interrested in how you think Inquisitor "should" be played, hell if i wanted to add pokémon i would.
so please, please, please spare me your thoughts.

anyone less close minded please feel free to post away any character you want.
i welcome it with open arms.

kaled
28-10-2008, 18:42
Out of curiousity, is this a theoretical question? Or do you plan to run games of Inquisitor set in the Star Wars universe?

Raellos
29-10-2008, 03:03
Now that would be cool. Stormtroopers with BS 20? :)

MarcoSkoll
29-10-2008, 04:10
and i'm not interrested in how you think Inquisitor "should" be played
He has something of a point. Getting involved with that sort of thing may make it hard getting involved with anyone outside of a regular gaming group.

But then again, the open endedness of Inquisitor allows this sort of thing, if the player really wants.


anyone less close minded please feel free to post away any character you want.
Actually, I did have a profile and equipment I came up with to represent a character based on Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell.
Holy wotsit, I still have the file... I thought I did this on my old computer?

Looking again, I have to say I'm not too impressed with my younger self, a lot of these stats and some of this equipment are a teensy bit over generous to put it lightly.

Right, an immediate -10 to most of the stats sounds like a good start, and a good trim back on the equipment... Hmm, I might be able to polish this profile up a bit, and it might make for a good NPC for a campaign.
I'll need to find some good fluff and background to explain him though.

@Raellos: No, that's far too generous. A stat line of about 10 across the board would be about right - unable to hit, die when even winged by a shot, highly inattentive, and just plain dumb - and with no willpower (I mean, they can't even resist a minor telepathy action!)

Daredhnu
04-11-2008, 11:32
Out of curiousity, is this a theoretical question? Or do you plan to run games of Inquisitor set in the Star Wars universe?

it's strictly theoretical


He has something of a point. Getting involved with that sort of thing may make it hard getting involved with anyone outside of a regular gaming group.

well since i don't go to GW to play any of their games i suppose i can live with that.
i've never relied upon people outside of my gaming group for a good time so i'm good.

precinctomega
04-11-2008, 11:53
Whilst the idea of applying INQ rules to a Star Wars game is highly appealing, providing stats for canonical characters is always a bit of a struggle - especially ones from stories with such a mythic arc.

Darth Vader is essentially unbeatable in every possible way until the plot decides otherwise. In this respect, he is much like Inquisitor Scarn in the Conspiracies series: Scarn doesn't have a statline because if the PCs engage him he will either effortlessly defeat them or disappear in a puff of smoke (or the gleam of a personal teleporter, anyway).

If you look at the Star Wars plot closely, for example, you'll see that things like the confrontation between Obi Wan and Vader on the Death Star make almost no coherent sense except so far as they provide dramatic tension to the plot (much as Gandalf had to "die" in FotR because his presence made everything too easy; and then had to "resurrect" in the Two Towers because without him Sauron could've just spitballed Middle Earth into compliance).

What would be interesting would be re-writing the psychic powers system for the Force. After all, the Force just works - there's no "down" side. The only limit is on what you can use it for (unless you're Dark Side and then anything goes, basically).

If "size matters not" what stops a Jedi from chucking whole planets around?

I'm sure the answers to these questions exist in the wider Star Wars canon, but I do feel that a Star Wars expansion to INQ is certainly feasible and could make for a very exciting game.

R.

Raellos
05-11-2008, 08:34
What about a 'mana' type system, with each power having a value determined by the GM, and more powerful characters having more mana?

precinctomega
05-11-2008, 14:03
It's always seemed to me that Force use in the Star Wars galaxy is automatic.

After a little brainstorming, I thought something more like "feats" would be the way ahead. A character starts with a number of "feat points" that can be expended during the duration of the scenario (simple feats like "distract" might simply be one feat point, but more dramatic ones like "hurl" or "unnatural strength" would be two or even three feat points to use).

To balance the Light and Dark sides, characters also get "virtue points". Every time they draw upon a feat point, they lose a virtue point. Virtue points are used to bend the rules of chance in their favour - one virtue point might win you a re-roll or allow you to add or subtract 10 per virtue point from any other roll made by any other character.

Dark Side Jedi get no virtue points at all, but get more feat points and can, therefore, perform more devastating "feats" (like Lightning Blast).

This would keep things balance, with the Jedi Knights affecting events in a more holistic fashion, whilst Dark Jedi are just heavy-hitters.

R.

Puuka
03-12-2008, 13:34
Out of curiousity, is this a theoretical question? Or do you plan to run games of Inquisitor set in the Star Wars universe?

I was thinking of this too. Do it in the 25mm scale using figures form the collectible game. It does lead itself to the "story" aspect of the game.


Whilst the idea of applying INQ rules to a Star Wars game is highly appealing, providing stats for canonical characters is always a bit of a struggle - especially ones from stories with such a mythic arc.

Darth Vader is essentially unbeatable in every possible way until the plot decides otherwise. In this respect, he is much like Inquisitor Scarn in the Conspiracies series: Scarn doesn't have a statline because if the PCs engage him he will either effortlessly defeat them or disappear in a puff of smoke (or the gleam of a personal teleporter, anyway).

If you look at the Star Wars plot closely, for example, you'll see that things like the confrontation between Obi Wan and Vader on the Death Star make almost no coherent sense except so far as they provide dramatic tension to the plot (much as Gandalf had to "die" in FotR because his presence made everything too easy; and then had to "resurrect" in the Two Towers because without him Sauron could've just spitballed Middle Earth into compliance).

What would be interesting would be re-writing the psychic powers system for the Force. After all, the Force just works - there's no "down" side. The only limit is on what you can use it for (unless you're Dark Side and then anything goes, basically).

If "size matters not" what stops a Jedi from chucking whole planets around?

I'm sure the answers to these questions exist in the wider Star Wars canon, but I do feel that a Star Wars expansion to INQ is certainly feasible and could make for a very exciting game.

R.

I would be more inclined to make up my own scenarios and not use canon characters except as occasional NPC that the players may encounter to progress the story.

Daredhnu
08-12-2008, 13:08
@ precinctomega : i like that virtue idea you have, they could be used at character creation to either "buy" feats or during games to adjust dice rolls.

further more i personally believe size contrary to popular believe does matter seeing as how you need to manipulate a greater area with the force.
i rather believe that it is weight that does not matter. (but that is just my personal believe)

now however seeing as there is infact an interest in this i will endeavour to expand on this.

for that to work however we will need a baseline for the average human (statwise)
i'm partial to 40 all round, this leaves plenty of space for higher and lower stats.

again thanks for any comments you guys make, i'm off to do some more research on the star wars universe.

kaled
08-12-2008, 16:55
for that to work however we will need a baseline for the average human (statwise)
i'm partial to 40 all round, this leaves plenty of space for higher and lower stats.If you look at p15 of the LRB it gives some stats values for an 'average' human. I'd suggest something like the following for a 'normal' citizen;
WS=30 BS=35 S=35 T=40 I=35 Wp=35 Sg=35 Nv=20 Ld=35

With a soldier being around this level;
WS=55 BS=55 S=50 T=55 I=55 Wp=50 Sg=45 Nv=50 Ld=70

Darthvegeta800
14-01-2009, 23:54
I would have thought that his bionics would be a little more than just "average" as the Emporer himself had them grafted onto his body. I would assume they would be advanced because he has the entirity of the Empire's funds to spend on him.

Ironically his initial bionics are (beep). Dark Lord rising indicates this. A techwiz like Vader/Anakin is of course frustrated by the bad design and fit. But over the years it vastly improves. Heck his outfit even has saberresistant metal wires. But that's just nerdy facts.

Odin
15-01-2009, 13:29
I'de been thinking about doing some Star Wars games based on the inquisitor rules. It's very easily transferrable for the most part - lasguns-blasters, power swords-lightsabers.

Boba Fett

Ws Bs S T I Wp Sg Nv Ld
70 80 60 60 75 80 70 80 65

Wrist mounted flamethrower & grapnel (count as flamer & webber digi-weapons)
Blaster (lasgun)
Missile Launcher (one shot per game, frag missile)
Carapace Armour all over, Closed Helmet with auto-senses

...that sort of thing.

Puuka
06-10-2009, 23:37
I was thinking of this too. Do it in the 25mm scale using figures form the collectible game. It does lead itself to the "story" aspect of the game.



I would be more inclined to make up my own scenarios and not use canon characters except as occasional NPC that the players may encounter to progress the story.

Could run a scenario where the Empire scouts out the location and sets up the shield bunker on Endor, or some Bothan spies trying to get the Death Star plans from Geonosis and get them to Leia before Ep4.

I think the Cannon characters would be best as NPC's and have minimal contact with the players. (Orders may come from Vader, but you're dealing with an pencil pushing officer to get your orders)

Dust King
07-10-2009, 07:24
How about stormtroopers have the profile of a guard veteran, but every time they shoot at a jedi they must take a Sg test if they pass they take a 30% penalty to their shots. This represents them being smart enough to try and avoid their shots being deflected back at them.

But yeah... I think everyone in Inquisitor has at one point thought "what would Vader be like?" Personally I'm considering knocking up a profile for John Constantine from vertigo comics, a normal citizen with high mental characteristics (except Ld) and a variety of Demonology and Theosophamy powers. Also probably a ability which makes him imune to psychic manipulation. I know I probably wouldn't get the chance to ever use it, but if any character from other universes could exist in 40k it would be him.

Anyway, nerdy ideas over now, just some random thoughts ;)

Puuka
07-10-2009, 15:03
I've though this system would work well for a Super Hero genre game. I do think the Mental powers would need to be tweaked up a bit though.

Nasha
09-10-2009, 21:23
Like mentioned earlier, i believe everyone has at one point in their history of playing INQ, thought to do Star Wars based games/rules.
However you cannot use canon characters unless they are as NPC's that appear as they do in such games as Jedi Accademy etc etc. The main ideas behind this are that they are too powerful and that their history may complicate things.
Yeah if you can make up a system that uses the INQ rules yet still relates to the Star Wars universe then im all for trying it out mate
kerby

Ambience 327
12-10-2009, 18:12
Several people have said something along the lines of "great idea, but don't use the canon characters", and I have to say "why not?"

Sure, if you are planning to play a long, narrative campaign, it helps to use your own custom characters to avoid entanglements with the existing storylines, but that's not the only way to play.

For one thing, you could create profiles for canon characters and recreate canon battles, then fight them out just to see how they go for you. For example, you could stat-out Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon and Darth Maul, then recreate their famous duel on Naboo. It would be challenging to balance two Jedi against one Sith and keep it fair and the outcome up in the air enough to make for a fun game.

Another take could be keeping your custom characters for the campaign, but throwing a canon character in there every once in a while to spice things up. Perhaps Vader shows up, and he's so powerful that your poor Rebel spies have no hope of defeating him - but they can make a run for it and try to get away with the stolen Death Star plans.

Why say "no" to canon characters, when "yes" can be so much more fun?!

MarcoSkoll
12-10-2009, 19:06
Several people have said something along the lines of "great idea, but don't use the canon characters", and I have to say "why not?"
Easy answer: People have their own favourite canon characters, and disagreements could very easily erupt over two different players' perceptions of what statline a character should have.

The other thing to remember is that a canon character's power, ability and success is defined by the needs of the plot, so will vary dramatically scene to scene.
To demonstrate, Darth Maul is awesome - capable of fighting two enemies at one time, kills Qui-Gon, and almost finishes Obi-Wan... but then he needs to be killed, whereupon Obi-Wan finishes him with absolute ease.

Obi-Wan's victory was assured, because he had to make it to film 4. Qui-Gon and Maul's deaths were equally certain, as they had to die before film 4.
The fact that their success or failure was defined by the demands of where the plot would end up means that you can't really hope to stat them reliably.

precinctomega
13-10-2009, 15:50
Plus, and more importantly in my opinion, it opens the door for canon characters dying in very un-heroic circumstances.

Who really wants to see Darth Vader fail a risk roll, trip over his own cape and break his neck whilst leaping down the stairs of the Emperor's throne room? Who wants to see Han Solo fall to a lucky headshot from a Storm Trooper?

R.

Nasha
13-10-2009, 21:05
my old GM in the UK used Malicant as his "tool", he fell from the top of some stirs and basically hit every step on the way down!
not heroic for a frothing redemptionist!
Dont use canon characters mate!
kerby

Ambience 327
14-10-2009, 16:41
My answer to this is simple: GM's can and should be allowed to fudge results.

If the GM does not have a vested interest in the outcome of a game (at least as far as which players' warbands achieve their objectives), this can be a very powerful tool. Used correctly, it can help keep the game fun and prevent the atrocities that can occur when the dice are really against you.

For example, I've been GMing a campaign between my wife and a friend (played in rare moments where we all have spare time - roughly five games played over the course of several years) where their two Warbands are at odds over some daemonic activity.

The (GM controlled) Arbites got involved at one point, and during a high-tension discussion between the two Inquisitors and an Arbites Proctor, the Proctor was pushed too far and chose sides - putting a Bolter round directly through the skull of the radical Inquisitor. He would have died, but as GM I decided it was much better for the campaign if he lived to be brought before a tribunal - and his minions could attempt to rescue him beforehand numerous times.

To keep things fair, I also saved a Rogue Trader in the other Inquisitor's warband when he sufferred an unfortunately fatal head wound due to some extremely lucky rolling on the part of a lowly mutant. I declared that he was alive, but that he would be out of action for quite some time while he received medical treatment.

We've allowed other characters to die - but sometimes you just have to fudge things to keep the narrative flowing and make sure everyone is having fun.

There is even an example of this in the original Inquisitor rulebook - in the example played out by three GW folk. Malicant (he must really be unlucky) leaps a gap and by the strict letter of the rules fails and falls to the ground, ending up out of action. The GM decides that is particularly unheroic, and declares that he just barely made it, and now he is hanging on to the railing for dear life, his weapons flying out of his hands and skittering across the decking.

MarcoSkoll
14-10-2009, 18:25
My answer to this is simple: GM's can and should be allowed to fudge results.
GMs can fudge results, but they should do it as a little as possible, or else there is no point in the rules at all.

Even if you choose to ignore that point, my points about the fact that canon character ability is subjective and also ultimately defined by the needs of the plot still stand.

precinctomega
15-10-2009, 06:50
And it should not be predictable that a GM fudge any given result because a canonical character is being used.

R.

Ambience 327
15-10-2009, 16:50
Meh - depends on the level of immersion your players demand / are capable of. My wife and friend don't mind a bit of it now and then, for the sake of keeping things fun and interesting. I don't do it regularly, but I do it when it makes for a better story.

As far as people disagreeing on the abilities of a character, that is certainly true, but something that can be overcome with discussion and an agreement to keep things fun. I suppose some groups would not have the same level of familiarity as I'm blessed with, but things can be worked out if you try. :)

MarcoSkoll
16-10-2009, 04:34
And it should not be predictable that a GM fudge any given result because a canonical character is being used.
Good point, special dispensation shouldn't be applied based on the fact it's a specific character.

It's unheroic for Han Solo to get shot in the head by a Stormtrooper (and given their likely BS score, improbable... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ImperialStormtrooperMarksmanshipAcademy)), but if you don't have that chance, what's the point in the game at all?

Yes, I know that LotR deals with Canon characters, but the game is structured in such a way that it's very very unlikely for a canon character (other than the hobbits) to die unheroically... and also, that would assume I thought the way that LotR does it a good one (It's a good game system, but I'm not really not sure that Lord of the Rings was the background to set it to.)

precinctomega
16-10-2009, 08:31
Actual strategy battle games like LOTR or 40k are different matters. Just because a model is removed, doesn't mean he's dead. Moreover, a death in the course of such a game is invariably heroic in any case, thanks to the nature of the game mechanics.

INQ, by contrast, distinguishes between merely badly wounded and definitely and irretrievably dead. When you have towering story-figures with deep associations with the canon, you automatically extract from the canon any event that leaves such figures unheroically disposed-of.

Now, that's entirely possible, of course. There's nothing so stop players participating in an alternative universe where Darth Vader meets his end tripping over his own cape or at the business end of a lucky rebel commando. But doing so can detract from the immediacy of the feel that a good GM wants to achieve in any INQ game - in the 40kverse or otherwise - that the travails of the characters are actually contributing to the greater story, whether or not the events they pursue are explicitly described in the canon.

The Architecture of Hate campaign is a good example, describing events taking place during the Medusa V worldwide campaign with an impact upon that outcome but never being officially enshrined in the canon (as many Inquisition adventures aren't). I had to steer clear, when writing it, of including a number of canon characters whose fates were to be decided elsewhere in the campaign. But I was still able to reference these characters to emphasize the feel of immediacy.

In a SW sense, then, Darth Vader might send a trusted agent to do his bidding (who can die unheroically or tragically without upsetting the apple cart of the canon), to give the players a feeling of being one step removed from the events described in the films. But Darth should not, himself, make an appearance.

R.

MarcoSkoll
17-10-2009, 00:47
Moreover, a death in the course of such a game is invariably heroic in any case, thanks to the nature of the game mechanics.
Not invariably. My Autarch from my Eldar army seems to die in the least heroic manners possible. In the last few games, he has died every time, with most deaths caused by things such as failing the first three armour saves he needed to take; and jumping into difficult terrain, then failing his dangerous terrain test (even with the re-roll).

(Yeah, I know he's not a canon character, but it still shows the point that deaths need not be heroic.)

precinctomega
17-10-2009, 13:25
True, a difficult terrain check failure is pretty unheroic. But that doesn't mean he's dead. Or it might mean that the rest of the battle is a heroic endeavour to ensure he doesn't give his life in vain.

Anyway, the point is moot. INQ has - your word - sufficient granularity for truly unheroic demises.

R.

MarcoSkoll
17-10-2009, 20:20
But that doesn't mean he's dead.
Probably not. Given his recurring level of incompetence, I'd hardly be surprised if he got stuck in a tree by mistake and couldn't work out how to get out.

Puuka
21-10-2009, 21:17
Probably not. Given his recurring level of incompetence, I'd hardly be surprised if he got stuck in a tree by mistake and couldn't work out how to get out.

This sounds like a Jar-Jar Binks sort of guy.

MarcoSkoll
21-10-2009, 22:34
This sounds like a Jar-Jar Binks sort of guy.
I hope not. Anyway, Jar Jar is a genius. (http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0122.html)

For the uninitiated, Darths and Droids is a screen-cap webcomic that takes the Star Wars films, and then re-does the dialogue as if it's all the invention of a group of roleplayers. I don't know if you're into webcomics, but it is singularly responsible for the existence of "Jar Jar, you're a genius" existing on the internet.

On the note of my Eldar army and luck, I have to mention my Striking Scorpion Exarch. When he had his squad shot to bits around him, he was left to single handedly charge a squad of Space Marines... which he almost entirely annihilated. It was only after a tooled up Chaplain was directed into the combat that he was finally killed - this was however after he had taken a wound off the Chaplain.

With a habit of exhibiting extreme heroism and skill in almost every battle, he's one half of the reason why I almost never take Howling Banshees (The other half is that I prefer the Scorpion models). Why can't all of my models be scarily competent?