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FunkyRatDemon
18-10-2008, 23:29
Since it states its a Hand Weapon, will I get the additional attack on my Master since he's already armed with a Hand Weapon? I say this because its a Magical Weapon...
Also, if I do get the Attack bonus, will I get this if its mounted on a Cold One?

I ask this since my Rulebook isn't here and won't be for almost a week :(

jesters89
18-10-2008, 23:36
Magic weapons do not confer the same bonuses as mundane hand weapons. So now, you do not get the extra attack nor do you get the +1 Armor benefit for fighting with a hand weapon and shield.

The dagger of hotek is an exception to this rule as it clearly states that you can combine it with an additional hand weapon.

Hope this helps.

Atrahasis
18-10-2008, 23:47
The issue of whether you can fight with a hand weapon and the Whip is unclear, as there is no explicit permission in the description that overrides the rule that a magic weapon must be your sole weapon and used alone.

There is no reason at all, though, that you cannot combine it with a shield for the hand weapon and shield bonus if on foot.

BEEGfrog
19-10-2008, 01:33
Unless it says so in its description it will not count as an ADDITIONAL hand weapon and thus will not get the extra attack for an additional hand weapon.

Also, since the rules state you do not get the additional bonus for HW & Sh for magic weapons, then you will not get it for the whip unless the description explicily says that you get the bonus, overriding the general case with a weapon specific exception.

FunkyRatDemon
19-10-2008, 02:58
I ask this because it says Hand Weapon in its profile (refered to on the Beastmaster's page)
So I see no reason to take this compared to the Crimson Death which is S6 and costs the same pts...

siphon101
19-10-2008, 06:11
Also, since the rules state you do not get the additional bonus for HW & Sh for magic weapons, then you will not get it for the whip unless the description explicily says that you get the bonus, overriding the general case with a weapon specific exception.

The rules don't actually state that SPECIFICALLY. What they DO state is that magic weapons do not get any special rules of mundane counterparts unless it specifically states otherwise. Convention has it that if the description of the weapon specifically states that the magic weapon is a SPECIFIC type of weapon, then that means that it DOES get the special rules for mundane weapons of that type.

Meaning, even though a lance gets +2 S on charging, a magic weapon called "The Lance of Sundering" won't do that. Nor will "the spear of destiny" or "the great weapon of Bob the Mighty and Slightly Odorous" get the special rules for spears and great weapons respectively.

However, if the description for the Lance of sundering reads:

"The Lance of Sundering

Lance . . . "

That is specifically stating that this weapon IS A LANCE and gets all the special rules of a lance. So if the Whip of Agony SPECIFICALLY STATES "hand weapon" this means that this weapon is a "hand weapon" with all the special rules therein, including the extra shield bonus.

theunwantedbeing
19-10-2008, 06:53
No extra attack bonus as you cannot combine magic weapons with mundane ones unless it specifies that you can.(page 121)
No extra attack bonus for 2 hand weapons while mounted.(page 56)

Atrahasis
19-10-2008, 11:11
Unless it says so in its description it will not count as an ADDITIONAL hand weapon and thus will not get the extra attack for an additional hand weapon.There is no such thing as an "additional hand weapon". There are hand weapons that are bought in addition to the hand weapon a model has by default, but "additional" is merely an adjective and not part of a compound noun.

Please read the rules for fighting with a weapon in each hand. Nowhere do the rules require any mythical "additional hand weapon".

Dtrik
19-10-2008, 15:00
page 121 of the BRB, I saw this line referenced in the thread just next to this one.
"magic weapons always ignore any special rules that apply to an ordinary weapon of the same type unless otherwise specified in the description of the weapon"

So unless it says in the description that you can combine the whip with another hand weapon to gain an extra attack than you cannot.

Atrahasis
19-10-2008, 15:10
It says it's a hand weapon, that's all that's required.

Dtrik
19-10-2008, 15:15
...ignore any special rules that apply to an ordinary weapon of the same type...

Doesn't that mean that a magic weapon that calls itself a hand weapon will ignore any rules for hand weapons such as the HW+S bonus or an extra attack? I must be confusing the wording because from that sentence it would seem that you would not gain any special rules for wielding a hand weapon. I'm going to go back and reread the section though.

Atrahasis
19-10-2008, 15:36
Just as having the words "Great weapon" in a description means the magic weapon grants +2S and Strikes Last, so too having the words "hand weapon" in a description grants the rules for hand weapons.

The rule you refer to only means that the names of items are irrelevant - a Sword of Might is not really a sword (ie it is not a hand weapon), but merely a sword-shaped manifestation of +1 Strength.
If the Sword of Might's rules said "Hand Weapon. Grants +1Strength to the wielder in close combat." then it would follow all the rules for hand weapons while also granting +1S and magical attacks.

Dtrik
19-10-2008, 15:43
ahhh, that makes sense now. thanks

loveless
19-10-2008, 21:06
As it's listed specifically as a hand weapon (the first 2 words of the item description...actually, it may say "Beastmaster's Scourge, but that item IS a hand weapon per its definition), it follows the rules for a hand weapon. Similar to the Dawnspear counting as a spear due to it saying "Spear" in the description. Etc. etc. etc.