View Full Version : Who says your special? Orcs Vs Empire

19-10-2008, 01:07
Further to the thread I started regarding certain special characters and their usefulness (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167214), me and a friend decided to have a game, using special characters from our chosen armies (greenskins and empire). We decided to use all of them...at once...which meant that we had to have a game totaling 6000 points a side!

The initial worries over the size of the battlefield were solved by taking the table we were planning to use...and moving it out of the room, leaving us with a hardwood floor perfect for the job. The battle went on for a while so it's taking me a while to type up the battle report without resorting to bullet points, but for the time being I'm posting the army lists and the actual battle will follow tomorrow.

So here we are:

Orcs n Goblins (Me)

Gorbad Ironclaw- 310 (General)
Grimgor Ironhide- 375
Azhag the Slaughterer- 450
Grom the Paunch- 255
Skarsnik and Gobbla- 205
Orc Big Boss- Horn of Urgok, Collar of Zorga, Light Armour, Shield- 114
Night Goblin Shaman- Lev 2, Staff of Sneaky Stealin'-135
NG Shaman- Lev 2, Staff of Badumm- 135
Orc Shaman- Lev 2, 2 Dispel Scroll- 150
Orc Shaman- Lev 2, Powerstone, Dispel Scroll- 150

24 Black Orcs- Shields, Noggs Banner of Butchery- 399
11 Boar Boys- Warbanner- 280
15 Wolf Riders- Spears, Shields- 240
2 Giants- 410
5 Trolls- 200
3 Goblin Chariots- Extra Crew and wolf- 198
38 Night Goblins- Nets, 3 Fanatics- 244
29 Big Unz- Shields, Morks Spirit Totem- 370
2 Rock Lobbers- Bullies- 150
2 Bolt Throwers- Bullies- 80
2 Doom Divers- 160
2 Pump Wagons- 80

4 Units of 25 Orcs- Shields- 720
2 Units of 20 Night Goblins- Shortbows, No command- 220
20 Arrer Boys- 150
2 Units of 5 Spider Riders- 152
2 Bases of snotlings- 40

Total of 5997.

According to the rules, Gorbad had to be the general (& BSB), and I put him with the unit of Boars, to be used on one flank with the trolls and Azhag (for stupidity tests, and a unit of kitted out wolf riders to provide extra support.

Skarsnik goes with the large unit of NGs, and Grimgor with the Black Orcs (Both of those are givens...), while Grom's orders are to take his squad of chariots and cause as much havoc as possible.

Empire is as follows:

Karl Franz- Ghal Maraz, Griffon- 605
Kurt Helborg- 325
Volkmar the Grim- 360
Balthazar Gelt- 400
Ludwig Von Schwarzhelm- 220
Luthor Huss- 180
Battle Wizard- Lev 2, 2 Dispel Scrolls- 150
Battle Wizard- Lev 2, Rod of Power, Power Stone- 150
Captain- Pegusus, Full Plate, Shield, Lance, Doomfire Ring- 144
Engineer- Mechanical Steed, Light Armour, Repeater Pistol, Pigeon Bombs-127

4 Units of 10 Handgunners- Musician- 340
25 Halberdiers- 175
25 Swordsmen- 175 Det. of 10 Halberdiers- 50
25 Spearmen- 175 Det of 10 Halberdiers- 50
20 Flagellants- 200
20 Free Company- 120

8 First Knights- Banner of Arcane Warding- 278
9 Knights- Banner of the Daemonslayer- 297

20 Greatswords- 230
2 Cannons- 200
Mortar- 75
2 Units of 5 Pistoliers- Musician-194
5 Outriders- Musician- 113

Steam Tank- 300
Helstorm Rocket Battery- 115
Helblaster- 110
15 Flagellants- 150

Total: 6008

And that's pretty much it...it think it's all there. Mark had to borrow a few extra troops as well as Gelt and Volkmar from some friends, but we both managed to hit the 6000 point mark.

I'll post the spells when I do the battle report, I haven't got my rulebook handy atm, so if someone could tell me the names and brief description of the effects of the Gold Order Spells, and 1 and 5 of the Order of Death to help me with the narrative (i've got the spell numbers and what they did to various units in my notes...but thats about it :()

19-10-2008, 13:05
Any suggestions on how to upload a map of deployment?

19-10-2008, 16:22
Really glad you decided to take the time to make this.

I fnd it easiest just to put the pictures in photoshop and then link it here.

19-10-2008, 18:34
I agree with malorian, it's really great to see such an effort around here!

For the spells you requested, I point you to the magic tactica; all the spells you need and their description are included.

As for the map of deployment, I use photobucket and then link the images here! (too bad that forum regulations have them appear as links rather than photos between the text... :( )

I'm really looking forward to this (and I'm of course rooting for the Orcs!!)

20-10-2008, 14:17
Here's the map of deployment- it's not brilliant (I'm no expert on graphics programs :-(), but you should get the general idea...


Battle Report to follow...

warlord hack'a
21-10-2008, 12:28
clear enough for me. but once things start moving adding some colors might be useful.. ;-). looking forward to the report!

21-10-2008, 12:38
You mean I have to do a map for each turn!?! :eek:

It's taking me long enough to do the actual report, and the first map took an age (bronze to be precise) to complete it!

I'll see what I can do...:)

21-10-2008, 13:53
You don't 'have' to do anything.

I'm sure we'll all be happy to get whatever we can : )

warlord hack'a
21-10-2008, 13:59
well let's put it like this: without maps a battle is hard to follow even at 2k, so 6k will be impossible.. Unless you greatly generalize, but discussing in detail is not going to work)..

warlord hack'a
21-10-2008, 14:00
but like Malorian said, do what you feel like, we are happy with anything and in any case not having maps is good for our 'blind chess' ability ;-).

23-10-2008, 15:08
Have been unable to do any decent maps to show the movement, etc, but most things were pretty straight forward so I hope my narrative can do the job. Any references to left and right flanks are from my (O&G) perspective.

Turn 1- Empire

The empire got the first turn and began with a general advance, with everything but the war machines and Hand Gunners heading towards the greenskin horde. Kurt Helborg and his Reiksguard moved across the top of the wood, with the Pistoliers following- this left them on the opposite side of the wood to which they’d been deployed, and the free company mirrored them by moving across in the opposite direction to back up the Steam Tank, which had trundled forwards. The unit of 15 Flagellants moved to the left flank, into the gap created by the Outriders and Pistoliers. Karl Franz and his pegusus bodyguard moved up behind the village, just out of sight of my war machines. Gelt followed their lead and hid behind the wood. All the combat units moved forward in line, with the Luthor-led Knights and War Alter keeping pace with the infantry.

The shooting phase was quick, with none of the hand gunners in range yet. The mortar scattered off the table, while the Helstorm misfired, causing it to miss it’s next turn. The cannons, however, both drew a bead on the giant in the centre of my lines, and when the smoke had cleared all that was left was a large pair of (very evil-smelling) shoes. The Outriders didn’t march and fired at Groms Chariot, causing 1 wound on the chariot and 2 on Grom (both of which were regenerated).

Any spells attempted by the empire wizards either failed to get cast, or were dispelled by my mass of DD. The Arch Lector did manage to bless the Pegusus Captain (named Peggy from now on…) giving him a 4+ ward save.


The turn began on a high, with not a single unit failing animosity! None of them! The chariots then declared a charge on the Outriders and Pistoliers, taking advantage of their 18” range, and only lone of them succumbed to the hail of lead that peppered them as they slammed home. The Pump Wagons rolled poorly, advancing 5” and 7” respectively.

Everything else moved forwards. The Trolls and Azhag passed their stupidity and moved up the right flank, with the Trolls postioned to block Azhag from the steam tanks LOS. The remaining giant moved across to his left in an attempt to provide a tempting target for the cannons, ending up just behind the bottom of the wood. The Boars and Wolf Riders moved up the left side of the wood, towards the Reiksguard, while The Black Orcs and the unit of orcs on their left moved towards the village, pivoting slightly to allow them to get past it next turn.

Seeking revenge for the downed giant I aimed my war machines at the most tempting targets I could see. Balthasar Gelt and Volkmar on his war Alter each warrented a Doom Diver and Bolt Thrower, and, to my opponents dissapointment, both guesses for range were perfect, and both were hits, while the Bolt Throwers both also hit home. To my delight Volkmar was badly wounded by the Doom Diver, before suffering the final humiliation of being skewered to the Jade Griffon by a large spear. Gelt was slightly more fortunate, only suffering a wound himself, however his mount was less fortunate, leaving the Empires best wizard with no other option but to walk back to the nearest unit.

Again our PD/DD balanced each other out evenly, however I used one dice to dispel the blessing on Peggy, while he had to use a scroll to prevent me unleashing Gorks Warpath on his Greatswords. I did manage to cast Hand of Gork on one of the Pump Wagons, throwing it a whopping 12 inches at the Steam Tank.

The combat phase began with Grom ploughing through the Pistoliers and taking no damage himself, while the two remaining chariots crashed into the Engineer-led Outriders, wiping them out completely. On the other flank my kamikaze Pump Wagon smashed itself into splinters against the steam tank, but some lucky rolling allowed me to cause 2 wounds on it.

I've just posted this first turn to get some feedback- is it clear enough to follow, or am I waffling to much and need to summarise more instead?

23-10-2008, 15:34
Well, I can make a pretty good imagination about how it was going, so I.M.H.O. you don't need a map or other stuff

Golden Lion
24-10-2008, 06:21
With the deployment map there, the first turn is quite easy to follow. The length and detail is about right if you ask me. Thanks, this is looking exciting! And, congrats on the laser guided warmachines!

warlord hack'a
24-10-2008, 09:44
indeed, easy to follow, exciting report. And bad mistake of the empire player to let his fast cav be charged by your wolf chariots..

Gazak Blacktoof
24-10-2008, 11:53
I agree its easy enough to follow. A mid game map might be useful if you could (time permitting) post one, I anticipate it getting quite difficult to follow after a few turns.

One rules correction, the outriders can't shoot even if they haven't marched, repeater handguns are move or fire.

26-10-2008, 19:48
Turn 2 onwards is here...finally! The kid-related problems caused a slight delay in this...but here it is!

(Note- Gazak, cheers for pointing that out, rechecked with Mark, Outriders didn't actually move that turn...

Turn 2

Edit: Forgot to mention that my Rock Lobbers both scattered off their intended targets (the unit of 20 Flagellants and the Spearmen), and didn’t land on anything else.


This turn started with Kurt and his knights declaring a charge on the boarboys, and the Steam Tank (as it didn’t have anything better to do…) charged the trolls. Once again the rest of the army advanced towards me, with the exception of the Free Company, who joined up with Gelt, leaving them at the tip of the wood, and Karl Franz and Peggy, who remained behind the village, obviously intending to flank charge Grimgor on the following turn.

The Hand Gunners were in range this turn, one unit caused a wound on the Giant, while the other 3 killed 11 Night Goblins from the unit nearest Grimgor, causing them to flee. The cannon on the left took down one of the chariots, while the other one caused another killed off the last Giant. Once again the mortar scattered and had no effect. The Pistoliers fired at the wolf riders, but failed to kill any.

For the magic phase once again he failed to cast much, but Gelt did manage to get off a magic missile at the wolf riders, killing 3 of them. He also managed to bless Peggy again, restoring the 4+ ward.

The steam tank ground against the Trolls, causing 4 wounds, 2 of which were regenerated, the trolls struck back and caused a further 2 wounds. There were no challenges issued in the combat between the knights and the boars, and Gorbad used his ASF axe to hack down Kurt Helborg! Mark said on hindsight he should have checked out what the axe did before the game, he assumed it was the orc equivalent of a Runefang, and therefore Kurt would have had the upper hand. In revenge Ludwig Scharzhelm struck back but only managed one wound on Gorbad. The Knights and the Boarboys managed to kill one of each other, meaning the boars won the combat, but the knights held.


The turn started with my Wolf Riders declaring a charge on the Pistoliers, but failing their animosity, as did the 2 units of orcs on either side of Grimgor. Azhag passed his stupidity test and charged the mortar, while the remaining pump wagon hurtled past the trolls and steam tank, to end up a tantalising few inches away from the unit of Free Company. The mortar crew and cannon crew passed their terror tests, however the hand gunners broke and ran off the board.

My main battle line moved up to 8” in front of his, allowing me to release my 5 fanatics, which ended up scattered between our forces, with one of them clipping the Swordsmen, killing 2 of them. Grimgor positioned himself so he couldn’t be flanked by Karl Franz. Grom and the remaining chariot bypassed the smaller unit of Flagellants, heading towards the artillery on the hill.

My bolt throwers and arrer boyz failed to hit anything, as did the doom divers, but the rock lobber that was able to fire managed to squash 5 Greatswords. The only spells I managed to get off were Gork’ll Fix It, which was cunningly cast on the first knights, meaning that Ludwig wouldn’t be able to pull his old killing blow trick on Gorbad, and Gaze of Mork, which brought down 3 Flagellants.

In combat Azhag killed 2 of the mortar crew, and ran down the last man, leaving him behind the cannon. Gorbad and his boarboys made short work of the knights, and routed Ludwig and the remaining 3 at a cost of only one wound to Gorbad and 1 boarboys down. Once again the trolls hammered at the steam tank, causing a further 4 wounds and taking 3 themselves, which didn’t regenerate. Still, 4 wounds on a steam tank…can’t complain…

Turn 3:


Not wanting to risk his battle line against the fanatics, Mark chose not to move most of his troops towards them, instead Karl Franz and Peggy charged Grimgor and his Black Orcs while all of his artillery and missile troops aimed at their targets. The smaller unit of flagellants moved back to reinforce his central battle line.

The right hand cannon loaded itself with grapeshot, and fired at Azhag, but missed completely! The Helblaster fired at the boarboys, and when the smoke cleared all but Gorbad and one boarboy remained…The left hand cannon overshot the oncoming chariots, while the pistoliers and hand gunners took down a fanatic each. The helstorm nailed Skarsniks gobbos and the orcs next to them, killing 4 and 3 respectively.

Balthazar Gelt cast the “microwave armour” spell on the wolf riders, killing 4 of them, forcing a panic test which they duly failed and ran, taking a unit of spider riders with them. The remaining fanatics were target with various magic missiles and fried.

The steam tank failed its pressure test and lost a wound, so the trolls duly took the last one, destroying it, and leaving them standing in a pile of twisted metal, which, to their disappointment…they couldn’t eat…

Karl Franz on the other hand had a good day, him and his Griffon, with the help of Peggy, killed 10 (yes 10) black orcs, while Grimgor only managed to cause a wound on the Emperor. The Black Orcs turned and ran, only to be easily run down. Karl Franz and Peggy overran, and crashed into one of the lagging units of Orcs.


As there were no fanatics in my way, a mass of charges were declared, with three units of Orcs and 2 of Night Goblins running at his lines. Grom flank charged the unit of knights, while the other match ups were as so: Orcs vs. Flagellents, Skarsnik and Ngs vs. Greatswords, Orcs Vs Halberdiers, Orcs Vs Spearmen, and NGs vs. Swordsmen. Azhag charged the Swordsmen in the back. On the left flank the remaining Chariot charged the hand gunners, but was shot to pieces. Gorbad charged the nearest cannon.

The trolls passed their stupidity on double 1s, and moved up to the end of the wood. The pump wagon charged the Free Company, and the units of Wolf Riders and Spider Riders failed to rally, fleeing off the board.

With pretty much all of the troops in combat, my artillery targeted his war machines, and managed to take out the Helstorm.

I used low casting spells to draw dispel dice, and then got of the Horn Of Urgok

Combat…mmmmm….left to right:

Grom managed to take out 6 knights with a combination of impact hits and a very big axe, while taking one himself and one on the chariot, but the knights held. Karl Franz predictably routed the orcs and ran them down, while the main battle line traded blows. Flagellents lost but held, Greatswords and Ngs tied (due to my outnumbering), Halberdiers tied, and the Spearmen won but the Orcs held, while the Swordsmen were undone by the rear charge of Azhag and his wyvern, lost the combat and ran, taking their detachment with them, only for both of them to be overrun by the Ngs, who in turn crashed into the pistoliers. Azhag tested to restrain from running them down, and succeded. On the right flank Gorbad easily wiped out the Helblaster crew, while the fanatic scored a maximum 12 impact hits, and 8 wounds…took 1 in return, won the combat, and ran down the Free Company and Gelt.

Turn 4

Due to time constraints this was decided to be the final turn…


Karl Franz continued his rampage and charged the Arrer Boys, causing them, a doom diver, and rock lobber to run in terror, all the way off the board. Everything else was in combat with the exception of the smaller unit of flagellants, who were hopelessly out of position due to the manoeuvrability of the chariots.

His shooting and magic were both ineffectual thanks to some pretty appalling dice rolls. Grom beat and broke the knights, following on into the flank of the bigger unit of flagellants fighting the orcs, who were then wiped out by Grom and the Orcs. The Halberdiers and Spearmen were both broken, but my troops were unable to catch them, however the Greatswords caused 6 wounds on the Night Goblins, and ran them and Skarsnik down. The Pistoliers routed the smaller unit of Goblins and ran them down.


I knew this was the last turn…and had already lost some pretty expensive units. In a last ditch attempt to win outright, Azhag rear charged the Greatswords, while my last 2 bolt throwers and doom diver targeted Karl Franz, who finally fell with two huge iron bolts sticking through his chest and Deathclaw was splattered by the Doomdiver.

I got Foot of Gork off on the Flagellant unit, killing 6 of them, while Gazes of Gork and Mork took down the Pistoliers.

In combat Azhag chewed through the Greaswords, and the turn ended…leaving me victorious!


I’ll do a proper post game shortly, with feedback from Mark, and if you want to ask any questions or if I seemed to have left anything out, let me know!

Star Performer Awards for my side go to: Gorbad, for taking down the Reikmarshal, the Trolls for their fabulous anti-steam tank action (with help from a pump wagon) and Grom…it was my first time using him, but he easily took care of twice as many points as he cost!

27-10-2008, 00:21
You have the luckiest trolls in the world, and your friend has the unluckiest steam tank in the world.

warlord hack'a
27-10-2008, 13:27
nice read, but you are either playing by a different set of rules or you have a few things wrong:

1) a steam tank can only attack in it's own turn: it needs steampoints to do damage and it can only generate these in it's own turn. SO yes, in your turn it is just a lump of metal ready to be bashed
2) a steamtank has 10 wounds
3) fanatics do not win combat and pursue, nor can they be hit in close combat.. And when they do 2d6 hits because a unit lands on them then after doing these hits they die..

27-10-2008, 16:01
nice read, but you are either playing by a different set of rules or you have a few things wrong:

1) a steam tank can only attack in it's own turn: it needs steampoints to do damage and it can only generate these in it's own turn. SO yes, in your turn it is just a lump of metal ready to be bashed
2) a steamtank has 10 wounds
3) fanatics do not win combat and pursue, nor can they be hit in close combat.. And when they do 2d6 hits because a unit lands on them then after doing these hits they die..

1. Never used a steam tank myself (despite having an empire army), so I'll put that one down as an error on my opponents part, and will raise it with him next time we speak.

2. As far as I can see the steam tank took 10 wounds (2 from Pump Wagon, 1 from failing pressure test, and 7 from the trolls.), but maybe I'm miscounting...

3. I also can't see anything in my post regarding fanatics getting into combat...I'm well aware on how they work. The only one that did any damage was the one that hit the Swordsmen, and then in his following turn they were all killed off by magic/ shooting. Could you point out where I wrote this, as it could be a typo?

Cheers for the info on the Stank though...he won't be getting away with that one again!

Ref Kalec- Yeah, although in hindsight they look like a good idea to use against a Steamtank: Auto hitting so low WS doesn't matter, S5 vs T6 isn't too bad, and being able to regenerate is also a bonus in that situation. I've also taken one down previously with 4 Pump Wagons...even 10 Wounds, 1+save and T6 can be undone by 8d6 Impact hits.


All in all a few things could have gone better, Grimgor disappointed, and the chariots were eventually smashed to bits by his shooting. The Giants ended up they way they usually do, mown down by massed firepower in the first couple of turns. I also shouldn't have allowed the boars to finish so close to the helblaster, as the entire unit could have been completely wiped out. Skarsnik was ineffectual, none of his delaying tactics worked at the start of the game, and his unit was easily beaten by the Greatswords (Gobbla missed all of his attacks...)

I failed to use the Wolf Riders well, and they ended up falling foul of magic and running off the table. The Spider Riders and snotlings did absolutely nothing, apart from one unit of Spids running off the table in panic.

27-10-2008, 16:05
Ya, those trolls did great : )

Thanks for posting this, it was great to see all those special characters in action.

Too bad you only had time for four turns.

warlord hack'a
27-10-2008, 16:32
oops, forgot to count wounds in your first post.. Yep, it got 10 wounds, job well done! ;-).

and indeed it says fanatic in your post, but I read through part of it again and it should have been pump wagon (you did mention impact hits though so that should have given me a hint).

So basically everything went by the rules (impressive for a 6000 point game!) except the steamtank fighting in your turn..

27-10-2008, 18:04
Yeah- everything was pretty much by the rules...we did have to check a couple of things...probably why the game took so long!

All in all the characters that I didn't really rate (Gorbad and Grom) did better than I though they would, while Grimgor and Skarsnik underperformed (Grimmers in particular...) and Azhag was his reliable best. I occaisionaly field him in my annoying "smash and grab" army: Azhag, 2 Goblin Shamen and 1 Orc Shaman (all lev2), biguns with Morks war banner (for a total of 10PD, 10DD) 4 Pump wagons, 3 wolf chariots, one unit of boar boys and lots of fast cav...and he never lets me down...

The Empire characters were quite good, although Helborg is woefully underdefended in someone doesn't take out a powerful character in B2B (eg Gorbad, whos 4 ASF S5 ignoring armour save attacks made mincemeat out of him...). Karl Franz was predictably tough, and ploughed through 2 units (including Grimgor and his black orcs) backed up by just a captain on a pegusus. Luthor and Ludwig Didn't do too much but Gelts magic was good when he finally managed to cast something (against an army with less DD/scrolls he could be devastating). Volkmar would have probably been very effective had I not managed to take him down with massed firepower...

When it came down to it the main bulk of the armies kind of cancelled each other out in the middle of the pitch, and the tide was only turned my way because Azhag was in position to rear charge, without him it could have been a lot tighter.