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Feefait
20-10-2008, 04:14
Tournament of the Unknown

So we have a core Warhammer gaming group of 4 people. We play pretty much only against each other. We all have at least 2 armies and have fought solo or in teams in pretty much every combination we could over the last few years. But we keep thinking to try something different. So here is what we came up with for our own little tournament. Each of us brings 2 armies, 1500 points. We will then randomly choose an army from the list from a hat and then play a random opponent. So they needed to be general, take all comers lists. They would also be played by friends who had never played the armies before. It was going to take faith in each other to build a competitive list for a potential opponent and yet still be fun. Also they would have to learn the armies on the fly with a (minimum) of coaching. It gets us to try something new and to see how someone would play our own armies. The plan was 2 games a piece, total Vp’s from our battles at the end would determine the days champion.

The Competitors:

Feefait I have played off and on since 1992, primarily Skaven. I brought Skaven and Lizardmen.
Domandi: Perhaps my most frequent opponent. We have had some epic battles over the last 10 to 12 years. My skaven have trounced his orcs more times then is fair. He brought Orcs and Vampire Counts. He has been playing Undead since they WERE undead and VC weren’t even a thought.
Bman: He’s been playing as long as I have, though we’ve all had some breaks. He is mainly an Orc player but plays High Elves as an opposite. He brought both today.
Dartagnan: The most inexperienced of us all, he’s only been seriously playing Fantasy for a little over a year. He plays and brought Ogres (main) and Bretts (secondary)

I will write up each army list and then let you know who rolled what and who is playing who. Some of the reports are incomplete as we got caught up in running over to see the other game or just in our game in general. The whole “tournament” rocked.
I will first post armies based on their "owners" .

Feefait
20-10-2008, 04:15
The Armies:

Skaven (Feefait)
Chieftan: Bsb HW, SH Ring of Darkness (MR1) Warpstone Charm 124
Plague Priest XHW Bands of Power Warpstone Amulet 124

Warlock engineer Full Gear Storm Daemon Dispel Scroll

25 Clanrants, Full Comm 150
25 Clanrants, Full Comm 150
25 Clanrants, Full Comm 150

15 Slaves
20 Plague Monks, xhw, comm, Banner of Swarm 205
5 Jezzails
5 Censer Bearers
3 Globadiers
3 Globadiers
Total: 1503

Lizardmen (Feefait)

Scar Vet: Sword of Battle, Shield, Spawning of Itzl, Sotek, Cold One 160
Scar Vet: Poison, Shield 102
20 Saurus Warriors, Spawning of Quetzl, Full command 300
20 Saurus Warriors, Spawning of Quetzl, Full command 300
10 Skinks 60
10 Skinks 60
10 Skinks 60
5 Cold One Riders, Command 265
3 Salamanders 195
Total: 1502

Feefait
20-10-2008, 04:16
Vampire Counts (Domandi)
Vampire (General): Sword of Battle, Crown of Damned, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the dead 195
Spells: Invocation of Nehek, Gaze of Nagash, Curse of Years
Vampire: Book fo Arkhan, Avatar of Death (XHW), Lord of Dead 170
Spells: Invocation, Gaze of Nagash
6 Black Knights, Champion 184
20 Skeletons, Champ 180
20 Skeletons Champ 180
20 Skeletons, Champ 180
Varghulf 175
15 Graveguard 225
Total: 1489

Orcs (Domandi)
Blorc Big Boss: HA, Spear, Enchanted Shield, Kickin Boots, Boar 150
Goblin Shaman: Staff of Sneaky Stealing 135
25 Boyz, Extra Choppa, Command 205
25 Boyz, Extra Choppa, Command 205
25 Boyz, Extra Choppa, Command 205
25 Night Gobbos, 1 Fanatic, Command 160
5 Wolfriders Spears, Musician 71
5 Wolfriders, Spears, Musician 71
2 Spear Chukkas 70
Boar Chariot 80
10 Squig Hoppers 150

Feefait
20-10-2008, 04:17
Orcs (Bman)

Blorc Big Boss: Akkrit Axe Enchanted Shield, HA 129
Orc Shaman: Level 2, 2x Dispel Scroll 150
Spells: Fists of Gork, Gorks Warpath
25 Big Uns, Comm 280
26 Boyz Command 186
35 Night Goblins, Command, 2 Fanatics 167
Giant 205
Boar Chariot 80
Rock Lobber, Bully 75
2 x Spear Chukkas 80
6 Wolf RidersSpear, LA, Sh 102
Total: 1498

High Elves (Bman)

Noble: Foe Bane, Armor of Caledor, Shield 137
Mage, lvl 2, Dispel scoll, seer staff of saphery 185
Spells: Drain magic Vauls Unmaking
15 Swordmasters, comm 255
15 White Lions, Command 255
20 Spearmen, Command 205
20 spearmen Command, 205
5 Silver Helms, Musician, Champion 129
5 Silver Helms, Musician, Champion 129
Total: 1500

Feefait
20-10-2008, 04:17
Brettonian (Dartagnan)

Paladin: Grail Vow, HA, Sh, Lance, Virtue of Duty, Sword of Might, Warhorse 151
Paladin: Knight Vow, HA, Sh, Lance, Warhorse, Banner of Chalon, Virtue of Stoicism 125
Damsel: level 2, Warhorse, Dispel Scroll, Power Stone 165
Spells: Wolf Hunts and something else (never used)
9 Knights of Realm, Command 224
9 Knights Errant, command 187
4 Pegasus Knights 220
8 Grail Knights War Banner 329
20 Men at Arms no points cost listed
Total: 1401 before men at arms

Ogres (Dartagnan)
Bruiser: GW, HA, Wyrdstone 162
Butcher: Ogre Club Bangstick, Dispel scroll 180
5 Ironguts, Champion, GW 260
5 Ironguts, Champion, GW 260
5 Ironguts, Champion, GW, Standard 280
3 Bulls 114
3 Leadbelchers 165
Gorger 75

Feefait
20-10-2008, 04:22
So here is the set up for round one:
Feefait vs. BMan
Domandi vs. Dartagnan
Army draws: Feefait - High Elves
BMan - Vampire Counts
Domandi: Lizardmen
Dartagnan: Bman's Orcs
DOmandi really wanted to play the lizards and I was excited to do HE. I played them years ago but never really got into them and sold them off. Bman had never seen VC in action and was anxious to give them a shot, though he really had wanted to face them. Dartagnan was I think just a little pissed none of his amries made round 1 and he got the one army he didn't really care about, Orcs.
I was nervous to face the VC's as BMan is very good and VC are really nasty. The last time I faced Domandis VC's it was over in 3 turns. That doesn't happen with us, at least not often.
I will have to post reports tomorrow as it is after midnight and I've already spent 10 hours playing Warhammer today. reports comign tomorrow.

Feefait
20-10-2008, 15:00
Battle 1
Feefait - High Elves
vs.
Bman - Vampire Counts

Set up was the first time I had a chance to look over the HE list. Having played against VC I knew what I was in for and knew I was in trouble. I expected the same that I had faced before, a level 3 caster as general and a level 1 with Red Fury or whatever it was called. I had 3 priorities. 1. Kill general 2. Kill other casters 3. Kill varghulf I would only have 1 scroll and 3 dd per turn, so if I didn’t take one out early I was done.

We rolled off and Vamps won first turn. Guess Speed of Asuryan doesn’t help with that. Set up is from my POV and all directions will be detailed as such.
Terrain was pretty sparse. Each deployment zone had a hill in the left and right corners and there was a house in the middle, just left and a set of impassable of center to the right, again just about middle of the table. It didn’t really have any effect, each tbale was set up for down and dirty, quick fighting with plenty of room to maneuver.
Vamps, left to right:
Varghulf on far flank, Skeletons 1 with General, Skel 2, Grave Guard, Skel 3 w/ vamp, Black Knights

High Elves:
White Lions Spearmen1, Spear2 w/General, Swordmasters and then to the right Silver Helm 1 and 2.

My plan originally had been to throw the Silver Helms after the Varghulf. But I was forced to set up first and had to commit to a flank, so I went right. I hoped the White Lions would hold the Varghulf for a turn or 2 if not kill it. The Silver Helms would go after the Black Knights and then hit the skeletons on the side. I figured I would stomp any small zombie or skeletons units raised and get some easy vp’s before getting into battle proper.

Turn 1
Vamps
Movement: Everything moves up, Black Knights flanked out wide right.
Magic: Level 1 casts Nehek 3x, I dispel 2 and have to let 1 through. He adds 5 Skeletons to his unit. The general raises 6 after I fail to dispel it, then fails casting with hsi final 2 dice. Only 6 PD, which suprised me, but still was 2x as many DD and with him only needing 1 di to cast, it didn’t look good. And with him raising his units numbers I no longer had numbers anywhere without flanks charges, which wasn’t looking promising.

HE

Movement: Move forward, Lions pivot to face the coming Varghulf. SH’s both move to intercept the BK’s.our generals are not in position to square off so I need to get something big in there. Adding to his units 1st turn was not expected and not what I normally see. I had to change plans.
Magic: I try drain magic on 3 dice but miscast and cause a wound to myself. Damn, I needed that spell to go off.

Turn 2
Vamps
Movement: Everything chugs up again. Black Knights just miss a charge on the Sh on the far right flank. Varghulf ignores the Lions and instead moves between them and the Spearmen, which I didn’t expect. I just left to much room, which was my fault.
Magic: Book of Arkhan on BK’s (to charge SH’s) was dispelled. I scrolled Gaze of Nagash on the SM’s from the level 1. The general targets Spearmen1 with Gaze though, hitting 7 and killing 5.

High Elves
Well, damn. No drain magic, no more scrolls. Everything he has is in charge range. My spearmen are flanked by the varghulf and will get hit from his command unit to the front and the varghulf in the rear, so they are dead. SH are faced down by the Bk’s. but here I make a mistake. I am reading a list off Army Builder, which I don’t use. I read the stat line for the SH champion and think all SH’s have 2 attacks. So going for broke I charge all out. Soon to be dead spearmen take the intiative and charge his command unit, sp2 w/g into unbuffed skeletons, sm’s into graveguard, SH 1 (who I think have 2 attacks) into the skel3 with vamp, SH2 into BK’s. Lions turn to flank, or receive charge from varghulf.
Magic: fail dispel magic with like a 5 on 3 dice.
Going form right to left (order I actually charged in) we have:
-Silver Helms on Black Knights, I hit like 9 times, do 5 wounds, but then my opponent points out I do NOT have 10 attacks,,, so I reroll, hit 5, wound 2, but 1 saves. The black knights whiff going back. They have a banner though and combat is tied.
-Silver Helms on the skeletons charge in to kill the vamp. I forget however and just attack the skeletons, killing 4. Then, dumb ass me, remembers what I wanted to do. My opponent suggests I just take it back, and go after the vamp. At this point he is kind of feeling bad. I know he went with Gaze last turn in magic cause he just didn’t want to overpower me with more units, and figured gaze would be more fair... lol He is at this point himself starting to mention how VC’s may just be a little OTT, but that theme ran the day and has been done to death here. So anyway I reroll 2 Sh and a champ on the Vamp, killing him. Wooohoo! Feeling much better. Until we realize cavalry bases are bigger and only 2 can attack the vamp. Damn. So I reroll my attacks for the third time that combat and now miss completely. One horse hits but doesn’t wound. He attacks back, killing 1 and autobreaking me. I run back at a slight angle and clip the impassable terrain and am destroyed.

- Swordmasters on Grave Guard goes much better. I slaighter them, killing 8. No hits back from the campion and the GG crumble.

- Spearmen 2 with general. Got to do some damage here, right? Well, general swings at the the ranks and wounds 2. Spearmen do 2 more. But all are turned away by the somehow incredibly sturdy Skeleton swordsmanship and armor. They attack back and kill 2. After final tally I lose by 4 and autobreak. Now Bman is really done with VC’s.

- Spearmen 1 does 1 wound on the vc general, saved by the Crown ward save. No other wounds on skeletons due to armor saves and failed attacks. The skeletons and general each get a spearman, who autobreak and are caught and destroyed.

We started turn 3 but after a gaze of nagash kills 6 White Lions and the Black Knights are brought to full we call it.

Hindsight not sure what else I could have done. I charged out of desperation but was seriously outmanned. I guess I expected more damage iutput from my combat units. I also thought skellys were str/t 2 now. Really that 4+ as is killer for them. My plan had been to double team with the sh’s bu twith the size of the skeletons they would have just gotten bogged down as I couldn’t kill them all in combat or with crumble to move through them. I could have tried a bunker style I guess, but just didn’t have hard enough hitters. A good HE list for general play, but a general army can’t beat VC’s.

Domandi
20-10-2008, 16:09
Hey all, had a great day and am looking forward to doing it again.

I want to make sure that people know that about half way through the VC/HE fight, we realized that a vampire can not be lvl 3. He should have been lvl 2 with Dark Acolyte. It really didn't have a big impact on the game, but I felt bad for making that mistake in the first place.

Malorian
20-10-2008, 18:00
Nice first report but I have to disagree with the one point (or at least make a comment on it).

"A good HE list for general play, but a general army can’t beat VC’s."

I define a good list for general play to be a good all comers list. If it is a good all comers list then you should have kept in mind (and have things to counter) fighting vampires and have either a solid magic defense or a character killer. If you define a good general list been just a balanced one then it's harder to make a comment.

It also should be noted that vampires are actually very weak at less than 2K games because well, vampires are weak. If the general dies the army losses and so if you are forced to take a regular vampire (T4, 2 wounds and limited options) rather than a lord (T5, 3 wounds and lots of options) you are at a disadvantage as characters killers are usually heros anyway. His general only had a 4+ward (and I remember no mention of his stupidity tests on Ld7) and could have been easily killed if targetted.


So as I said. Keep up the battle reports, but I just couldn't let that comment in the end fly.

Feefait
20-10-2008, 18:41
Nice first report but I have to disagree with the one point (or at least make a comment on it).

"A good HE list for general play, but a general army can’t beat VC’s."

I define a good list for general play to be a good all comers list. If it is a good all comers list then you should have kept in mind (and have things to counter) fighting vampires and have either a solid magic defense or a character killer. If you define a good general list been just a balanced one then it's harder to make a comment.

It also should be noted that vampires are actually very weak at less than 2K games because well, vampires are weak. If the general dies the army losses and so if you are forced to take a regular vampire (T4, 2 wounds and limited options) rather than a lord (T5, 3 wounds and lots of options) you are at a disadvantage as characters killers are usually heros anyway. His general only had a 4+ward (and I remember no mention of his stupidity tests on Ld7) and could have been easily killed if targetted.


So as I said. Keep up the battle reports, but I just couldn't let that comment in the end fly.


Good points, but I think you contradicted themselves. A good general list does not necessarily have a design to kill one character. And the list was made by someone who had never played VC's. in fact due to the set up we did not know which exact armies would be available. The general had a weapon that wounds multiple wound models on a 2+. Not terrible. But You still need to hit , wound and then get by the ward save. With 3 attacks that's hard. Had I set up better I maybe could have gotten a couple hits. But not killed him and not stopped him from healing himself with magic. Give me lizards and my scar vet on cold one with the pirannha blade and he's gone, but I didn't have that. Of the lists that were there the VC list was the best, Skaven I think second. No problem with the contradiction of my statement, that could have been a bit of frustration on my part, but the counter argument is always "character hunt or go all magic defense" and that again doesn't spell general list to me. :) Oh and I didn't mention the crown because (like Lahbourra you ratnik) he never came close to failing the check. :) But if you are worried about stupidity, check this next report out. :)

Malorian
20-10-2008, 18:55
Looking at the lists I had thought that the bretonnian one was the strongest. I'm actually hoping that they and the vamp list got to fight each other : )

Wolfmother
20-10-2008, 19:06
i have some advice for the skaven player ;)

5 jezzails is a no go i think its either 10 or none

warpstone charm on the bsb? probably not worth it

15 slaves i would try to bump this unit up to 25 or 30

and iirc isnt banner of the swarmt he one which letts you have plus four ranks for combat res on the unit of 20? Ummbranner just winns on plauge monks or warbanner

hope it helps

Feefait
20-10-2008, 19:18
Round 1 Game 2

Domandi - Lizardmen
vs.
Dartagnan - Bman’s Orcs

So this was my Lizard list. I am a big fan of the list and have been very succesful with it. It would be interesting to see someone else wielding it, but it’s kind of like someone handling your favorite comic book, you just don’t want it to get mangled.

So I have to start out with the quote that stuck out to me and I think decided the game:
“I’m not worried. Lizardmen are just more reliable Orcs” - Domandi
D’oh! I thought he’d be in trouble after that! :) I did not chronicle the report and only was able to watch it after I was crushed in game 1.

Set up will be form Lizardman POV. Terrain was set up similar to the other table. Hill in each corner and some random bushes here and there.

Orcs: Left to right
Wolf riders, Night Gobs, Shaman, Big Uns, Boyz, Giant, Chariot, all the warmachines were in the back on the hill.

Lizards, left to right
Salamanders, Skinks 1, Saurus 1 Cod One Riders, Saurus 2, Skinks 2, Skinks 3

Lizardmen got first turn.

Turn 1
Lizardmen
Movement: So here it started. Domandi, worst roller in the history of dice starts out with stupidity check. One I have NEVER failed. But it’s him, not me. On 3 dice, cold blooded with the general in the unit he rolls like an 11 or 12. SO they stumble forward. Everything else moves up full except the skinks3 who move to the right a bit.
No magic or shooting so onto Orcs.

Orcs
Movement: Big Uns waagh and scamper forward 3". Everything else moves forward. Except the chariot. Dartagnan can’t seem to play a game with out putting a unit uselessly behind another, so he moves that behind his main battle line to wrap around and now hit from the left side. He was also (rightly so) worried about the skinks unloading on his chariot. The Night Gobs move up to within 7" of the Saurus (they may have had a waagh to) and release fanatics. One moves 3", the other hits Saurus1 and kills 4.
Magic:: nothing significant
Shooting: Bolt throwers miss saurus.

Turn 2
Lizards
Movement: Skinks move up to punish the giant. The cold ones charge the Big Uns (with Huanchis in the magic phase), the rest move up to a couple inches from the rest of the orcs. To be charged next turn I guess...
Shooting: Skinks give the giant a real bad belly ache but fail to kill him. 4 wounds. And here the crapitude of dice continues. Salamanders shoot at the wolves. First one, misfire, eats 2 skinks. Second one... misfire. Eats a skink. Third 1, 6 hits I think, 2 wounds. Goblins panic at least. No here it is, I rarely roll a misfire with my sally’s. This was painful to me. I have NEVER rolled more then 1 misfire in a game, forget 2 in a round.
Combat: Cold Ones with general manage to only kill 4 lousy orcs. , no hits back, but with banner and numbers and ranks it’s tied and they stalemate.

Orcs:
Movement: After much debate over the benefits and drawbacks of a waagh, it is decided it’s generally not that useful. Especially as the LM player had nicely set himself up for charges everywhere. NG’s charge Saurus 1 in the side, Boyz and giant charge saurus, Boyz on front, giant on side. Now in Domandis defense, he had moved the skinks up to be in the charge lane of the giant. However, in a game of inches or less the base was able to just miss the skinks and get to the saurus. Wolfriders rally and reform.
Magic: Gork brings the boot down and stomps a salamander and a skink.
Combat: Giant swings club and kills 6 Saurus in Saurus2. The orcs kill a couple more and with nothing back they lose and break. Giant pursues, orcs stay, catching and destroying the yellow blooded lizards. The cold one knights fail to hit anything again and lose on static cr, break and run into the giant. Not a good round if you have scales and eat flies.

Turn 3
Here’s where it is pretty much over. Skinks kill the giant. The saurus1 lose combat from the NG with again but stay sturdy. In the Orc phase the Wolfriders go after the salamaders who have done about nothing. The Big Uns flank charge saurus1. Foot of Gork again descends, killing a bunch of skinks. Saurus break and are destroyed in combat.

Result: Crushing victory by the Orcs. I tis very easy for me to say now what I would have done as the lizard player, but hey it was my army, designed with my strategy in mind. It’s hard to play someone elses stuff. Especially if you don’t know the army at all. I think after the failed stupidity I would have waited and reset my lines. I also would have ignored those wolves with the sally’s and cut down some oncoming cr. There were skinks over there to take the Wolves. Dartagnan did a great job with the orcs, getting them up their fast (and not failing any animosity.)

Both round one games were routes ending in 3, but we all had a blast. Round 2 is next

Feefait
20-10-2008, 19:26
i have some advice for the skaven player ;)

5 jezzails is a no go i think its either 10 or none

warpstone charm on the bsb? probably not worth it

15 slaves i would try to bump this unit up to 25 or 30

and iirc isnt banner of the swarmt he one which letts you have plus four ranks for combat res on the unit of 20? Ummbranner just winns on plauge monks or warbanner

hope it helps
hehe thanks for the advice. I;m pretty okay with 5 jezzails., Sometimes I go with 6, but only rarely as many as 10. I use them only to go after monsters and fleeing units as I am usually in combat as soon as possible. I run a very aggresive group of rats. As far as slaves we were tlakign about this before the game. I used to run 2nuits of 40! and here I was with 15... lol it's weird. But so far succesful. I am not sure that the charm is a normal choice, or would be for me. I usually have a chieftan with it and the cautious shield and he plays keep away. I didnt want to just hand off my normal army though. I have not used a Plague Priest in years.
Banner of the Swarm adds +1 to outnumber bonus.

Feefait
20-10-2008, 19:32
So we are setting up for round 2. Despite some army balance issues (looking Malorian... :)) it was succesful and fun. IT definetely made us be on our toes and play our best game (except me, who was humiliated) as we could not rehash our normal strategies.
Round set up winners vs. winners and losers vs losers.
We kept all round 1 armie sout of the bag to make sure everyone got played. plus we all wanted a crack at playing the ogres.
So here is what we ended up with:
Feefait - Domandis Orcs v Domandi - Bretts
BMan- Ogres v Dartagnan Skaven
And so round 2 begins with the losing losers trying to redeem themselves.

Feefait
20-10-2008, 19:56
Round 2

Orcs v Bretts

Set up went, from Orc pov. Left to right

Orcs: Wolfriders, Bolt throwers on a hill, Chariot, Boyz 1(set just back from the rest, General, Ng’s, Squig hoppers (boyz2 behind them) Boyz 3, Wolfriders2

Brettonian
Grail Knights Knights Errant, Pegasus Knights just behind these 2 and damsel kind of in the middle of the Pegasus. Just at center were the man at arms and the Knights of the realm to their right.

So here was my basic strategy: Throw up the Ng’s to release the (lone!) Fanatic and bait a charge. Bring the boyz and wolves on the right around to hit behind and grab some table edges. The boss was solo to try to get a charge on a knight unit and kill some ranks. I knew he’d be praying so would have first turn to adjust my set up as needed. Squigs went dead center because I have always been dying ot use them. If I could get them as DoW in skaven I would in a second. The game didn’t last long so I won’t go to detailed. :)

I got turn 1 and moved up. No animosity failures and I thought, this animosity thing is a breeze... NG’s did run forward which put them just where I needed them. My bolt throwers missed and magic fizzled.
Brett’s turn 1 saw the KoR charge the squigs, who fled. They declared a new charge as the squigs were no longer there and went after the NG’s instead. The Knights E also charged the Ng’s. Things were going okay. When the Gob’s died the knights, if they pursued, would be right in line for some flank charges. This was going very well. The magic phase hit me with a surprise when the damsel used “Wolf Hunts” and the Grail knights charged the chariot. That would be problematic, as if they destroyed the chariot out right they had a line at the boyz1. Goblins died, as did chariot. And the GK just barely clipped the Boyz on the overrun. Ouch.
SO it came to my turn and I was all over him. I had KE, GK or KotR all set up for flank charges. Except, good ole orc boyz, this is when they decided they needed to fight. So there I was, maybe 5 inches from the enemy beating myself up. I now only had my general to charge with. I could’nt run him away as everyone was to close. I couldn’t charge as he was now unsupported. I made a gamble and charged, hoping to lose and run far enough to reform later. The squigs never rallied by the way. But alas I missed completely. He ran and was destroyed. My Boyz 1 rand and were destroyed. Squig hoppers run off the table as the GK pursued now into them. SO I now had essentially 6 wolves in direct line fo the pegasus knights, 6 eolves going after man at arms, no general, no squigs and 2 units of boyz staring down 2 knights units. So yeah, that was pretty much game.

Wow. I have played against orcs so many times and seen this happen to my benefit so many times. I seriously had things in a good position, but 3 bad rolls and I was done. I got overconfident with the Black Orc boss and underestimated the Bretts speed and ginsu like charge power. I think I’ve only played them once in 10 years and I crushed them with LM. I had set a sad sad showing this day. Great job by Domandi though. He picked his units and destroyed them.

Gazak Blacktoof
20-10-2008, 20:15
Its good to see people having a go with other peoples' armies. Some fairly quick games so far, hopefully there will be a few that are more nail biting.

One rules point, though it wouldn't have made a real difference, squigs are immune to psychology so they can't flee from a charge.

Feefait
20-10-2008, 20:34
SO I have to apologize. Apparently i do not have a reprot of the last game.
It was Dartagnan with Skaven vs. BMan and the Ogres. It kind of kept with the them of the day though.
Some highlights: The ogres were deployed 5 wide in 5 man units and in a block of 6 in the command. This was to basically cover the whole board and make sure things would be hit on charges and overruns.
Skaven turn 1 saw the Ratling guns roll 8 and 9 hits respectively on a 5,2 and 6,3. But then the Skaven player got greedy and rolled again, rolling a 5 and a 6, blowing up both of them. The Ogres pretty m uch just came up as fast as they could while the skaven took some shots. The leadbelachers were hit by warplightning and fled before they could do anything. One unit of Ironguts destroyed a unit of clanrats on a charge but were hurt in the process and way there only 3 got to the second line of skaven. 1 of them died from the warpfirethrower hitting them in the back, wounding another. This left 2 hurt ogres against 25 clanrats. They lost on cr even if they did almost maximum wounds and this was pretty much the theme. They just coulnd't hit enough to overcome the static cr. Dartgnan did a great job with set up and having everything balanced and supported.
even when the ogres got the slaves or censer bearers and by the time they got to the clanrats they were beat down enough that they had no chance at numbers. They at one point charged the clanrats with the plague priest in it, who used his bands fo power and had 5 str 8 hits. This put them over the top, and they ran down the Ironguts, ending just behind the main ogre command unit. That unit was charged the next skaven turn by the plague monks and lost 1 from attacks but killed 4 plague monks. But again, ranks, numbers and bsb and banner of swarm ended with the command unit (stobborn form toothcracka) losing by 1. Of course BMan rolle dhigh and broke, directly into the clanrats. At that they called it again. By the end of 2 all that the ogres had left was a unit of 4 Ironguts, a butcher with 2 wounds already, fleeing leadbelchers and a gorger that was nowhere to be soon.

Feefait
20-10-2008, 20:44
The hardest game for me was the last one. I enjoyed all of them, but to see someone playing MY army was like seeing someone kiss my girlfriend. I mean, I've dabble din toher amries and play LM a lot, but these are prtty much the same skaven I've used since 1992. Hell 90% of my armies models are the old metal ones. But (with only some small coaching) Dartagnan did very well and won the day, going 2-0. I was the Big Loser not only losing both, but gettng unceremoniously crushed. It was a lot of fun to finally be on the other side of these armies I;ve faced hundreds of times over the last 15-16 years. Defnitely going to try it again. Just have to wait for the wives to calm down. lol

Feefait
20-10-2008, 20:47
Its good to see people having a go with other peoples' armies. Some fairly quick games so far, hopefully there will be a few that are more nail biting.

One rules point, though it wouldn't have made a real difference, squigs are immune to psychology so they can't flee from a charge.

Yah know, we thought about this but for some reason never looked it up. We discussed and discussed but no one was sure. It seemed strange, especially fluff wise for them to somehow be tactical, but we let it slide. In hindsight it probbaly would have been better to take the charge anyway, but who know animosity would hit as hard as it did. hehe that was the fun part though.

Malorian
20-10-2008, 21:11
Note on the bret vs orc battle: Squigs are ItP so they can't flee.

Otherwise good try on your part. Brets are a hard army to deal with and you had the right idea. Just some bad rolling ruined it for you : (

GuyLeCheval
21-10-2008, 14:51
Aren't slaves unt size 20+ (if clanrats are 20+...) and shouldn't you give the plague monks that hatred banner? 3A + reroll is awesome.
Otherwise, nice army see forward reading you playing with it.

Feefait
21-10-2008, 16:09
You are right on the slaves. God what a noob I am! lol When I constructed the army I didn't HAVE any slaves but then had some points so added in the small block. I kept wondering why I had never done units of 15 slaves, but I guess now I know! lol Suppose I would have to have dropped a couple PWG or a censer bearer. Would actually have made the slave unit better and not impacted the rest of the army. I think the main reason is I was short on painted models at that point. Thats weher I ended up with the Censers, I normally don't take them anymore. But after a charge from th bulls they were destroyed but had killed 1 and wounded another. That meant the clanrats waiting right behind them were assured to win combat. Thanks for pointing that out! Note to self... use book next time! lol

Kalec
22-10-2008, 22:36
The bret player needs to read his armybook more closely. His BSB can't have a shield or lance.

Iamthegodcomplex
23-10-2008, 17:33
Orcs (Bman)
Mage, lvl 2, Dispel scoll, seer staff of saphery 185
Spells: Drain magic Vauls Unmaking


Tiny thing that didn't make a difference in the game: That mage should have had 3 spells. You get Drain Magic for free if you take High Lore. You only really used it for drain though, so it wouldn't really have mattered. Bad Luck on the Drain miscast.

Feefait
23-10-2008, 18:47
Tiny thing that didn't make a difference in the game: That mage should have had 3 spells. You get Drain Magic for free if you take High Lore. You only really used it for drain though, so it wouldn't really have mattered. Bad Luck on the Drain miscast.


lol dang it! ONe of the cool things about this was not only trying new stuff, btu not really knowing for sure what was going on. unfortunately this kind of led to us missing some things as well. as Domandi mentioned, originally we had given the vamp gen 3 spells as well as we were confuse don the construction. But that uncertantiy was alot of what the day was about.

SevenSins
23-10-2008, 20:34
a funny concept you havegoing here :) and as shown by the reps knowledge is indeed power, and lady luck is fickle.
Looking forward to round 3 (to the OK army, big units are seldom worth it...)

Feefait
24-10-2008, 04:33
Ogres are funny. In our group we each have our own idea on how they should be played. Its kind of why we all wanted to play the OK the most. Personally I think we are just not admitting that there may be something wrong with the army and just thinking we are doing it wrong. We;ve tried about everything from MSU to the big honking units we have now. There are just a couple quick fixes that could make them really competitive, especially as we saw here. They just couldn't overcome static cr. Maybe give them +1 CR for each 3 wounds over 3 or something. Noth that THAT woulnd't get complicated or anything. THey need help, surprisingly enough on the charge. And on a smaller table, or terrain covered table they jst get in each others way. WOuld be nice if there atillery were just a smidge better and gorgers could at leats move the turn they emerge.

Malorian
24-10-2008, 05:14
Have you tried it my way with 120 gnoblars (20X6) to act as a giant screen?

If not you should seriously give it a try (although you may want to proxy it).

Djekar
03-11-2008, 07:44
This sounds like a really great idea - my buds and I had a 4k 2 on 2 that was similiar to this once (we drew armylists and partners randomly), but I think I might have to set this up. It could be fun, barring some angry wife action in the middle of a game - not that that's ever happened or anything...:eek: