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x-esiv-4c
20-10-2008, 12:15
Over the weekend I was at a local GW. Being a GW on a Saturday it was swamped with kids (important later). A patron came with a box and set it down on a table. The box was filled with back issues of white-dwarf...all at around issue 100, loaded with rogue trader goodness.
Naturally kids flocked to this pandora's box. I noticed that some took to the old material with curiosity, looking at the old models and rules. They were shocked to see beastmen in IG armies and wondered what the "cl" stat was. Other kids flipped through the WDs and put them down. It didn't hit me until later in the day that the kids that took no interest in the back issues of WD also had unpainted armies (SM mostly) marred in mold-lines and put together with the manual dexterity of a sock whilst those that took interest had (on the whole) painted armies with scenic bases and conversions.
Meh...I thought it to be interesting.

Thommy H
20-10-2008, 13:19
Doesn't surprise me.

Sweeping and possibly offensive generalisation ahead - read at your own risk:

People who don't have pride enough in their armies to build them properly, paint them to the best of their ability (you don't have to do it well, just do the best you can in the time you have) and invest in the background and imagery (at least give your General/HQ a name or something...) are only really interested in winning. If you're only interested in winning, you have no love of models, no appreciation for painting and, most relevant to this topic, no nostalgia about the hobby. Why would you care about WD issues from when the games were totally different? No tactics articles you can even use any more. Old models? Who cares about models - they don't give any advantage in the game.

A lot of kids get into GW games to win. That's what kids like to do: beat their friends at stuff. It's an important stage of human development, but some people just don't grow out of it and sometimes the way society is geared doesn't help that. There's a reason most people find arrogance, greed and excessive competitiveness repugnant though - it's something you're supposed to leave behind in childhood. An adult displaying these kinds of traits almost always comes across as immature.

Hopefully there weren't too many adult gamers who weren't interested in the back issues. I know I'd have instantly dropped whatever game I was playing to read through all the back issues.

x-esiv-4c
20-10-2008, 13:27
Funny you mentioned that actually. Most of the older games stopped in their tracks to read the WDs.

It was funny to hear things like:
"Wow, they have D&D rules in this issue!"
"Look at this! This plaguebearer has a plasma gun!"
"Whats a psyk-out grenade?"

Good times.

Radium
20-10-2008, 13:30
I know what you guys mean.

I know of a couple of these kids, they are the same kind of kid that just yanks models of the table mid-game without asking for permission first, then proceeds to take very quick look and lose interest. After which they thump the model back in roughly the same spot where they yanked it from, not caring for the model or the painter at all, even if they chip/break the mini or disturb the game in any way.
And even then don't understand and tell you to 'chill' when you go practically berzerk for finding your dark reapers somewhere on the floor, nice and chipped, with all loose parts lying in the vicinity.

But on the bright side: I also know a lot of kids that really want to progress as a painter, and try to learn how people get certain effects on their models and politely aks if they can see a nicely painted model.

Old School
20-10-2008, 15:19
Fascinating observation there x-esiv-4c. I couldn't add anything else more to what Thommy H has already eluded to.

Bookwrak
20-10-2008, 17:45
I think Thommy H is _way_ off on the wrong tangent here. The 'a lot of kids get into GW games to win' line is bordering on silly, and the whole post really gets away from the point. It was a sweeping generalization, and worse for being wholly inaccurate.

What the OP was looking at was the difference between kids who were into the hobby, and those with just a passing interest. Wargaming is a hobby that takes a large investment of time and effort, and if it's something you do because some of your friends are into it, and you generally enjoy playing but just have no passion for painting, modeling, or the backstory and history of the game, then a box full of old WDs is really going to have nothing to interest you.

Thommy H
20-10-2008, 17:49
It was a sweeping generalization, and worse for being wholly inaccurate.

Told you to read at your own risk.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
20-10-2008, 18:45
I think Thommy H is _way_ off on the wrong tangent here. The 'a lot of kids get into GW games to win' line is bordering on silly, and the whole post really gets away from the point. It was a sweeping generalization, and worse for being wholly inaccurate.

What the OP was looking at was the difference between kids who were into the hobby, and those with just a passing interest. Wargaming is a hobby that takes a large investment of time and effort, and if it's something you do because some of your friends are into it, and you generally enjoy playing but just have no passion for painting, modeling, or the backstory and history of the game, then a box full of old WDs is really going to have nothing to interest you.

Speaking of "sweeping generalization"s that border on "being wholly inaccurate"...:rolleyes:

I think the point is made. I used to LOVE my White Dwarfs for all the hobby/converting tips inside. I still enjoy getting it in the mail, but the only really enjoyable part for me are the battle reports.

I love the background, I love converting models, I love making up stories for my armies and why they are doing what they're doing, and I love campaigns. Having fun is more important that winning, getting along is more important than winning... heck, I only need probably one win out of five or so games to keep me from throwing my army on the shelf for a while.

Don't be too hard on those kids, however. A lot of them are just young and the width and breadth of the hobby is a bit too much for them to fully explore at this juncture. We were all like that at one point.

blongbling
21-10-2008, 10:24
well it shows what has always been true, what is the hobby for one person isnt the same for another person. Some people game, some paint, some do both, etc, etc. al this does is highlight that those people exist.

The idea that they havent seen old WD's isnt exactly amazing, most kids in a store wont even be able to comprehend that WD existed before they were born.

Phoenix Blaze
23-10-2008, 00:23
I used to be one of those kids who was like "whoa! old stuff!". I remember getting my hands on some old WD Compendiums like 6 or 7 years ago and obssessing over all the old rules, fluff, models, pictures etc. I think knowing the history of GW, even just a little bit is excellent. I was totally suprised when I first saw an old WD and it had adverts for non GW things.

Now, I like the fact that I have such knowledge, makes me feel less ignorant about GW's past products.

Ward.
23-10-2008, 02:44
There's a yahtzee video I could post that deals with nostalgia, I think it'd be pretty topical to tell the truth.

Exterminatus
23-10-2008, 03:25
Come on guys stop the elitist behaviour. So a dude brings in a box of old WD's and not everyone pays attention to it. Perhaps they were more interested in the game? In the display cabinets? In the new and shiny boxed sets? When I just started playing the store amazed me more than someone who brings in a box of old WD's...

ehlijen
23-10-2008, 04:26
I agree with exterminatus.

Let's face it, compared to what GW brings out today, many models from back then were hideous! Why would I want to interrupt a game to look at that? Escpecially if a dozen people are already doing so? I don't want to push through a crowd for that.

The articles may have been fun, but actually reading through them would take time that could be spent gaming. If I go to a games club I want to game, not read through ancient magazines.

Nephilim of Sin
23-10-2008, 05:05
I love finding out the history of things that I am interested in. My favorite arcticles in WD and online have been the 'evolution' of ideas for each individual army. I still flip back and forth through my old 3rd and 4th/5th army books. I remember scouring through the bookstore to try and find any WD copies I did not have.

Yet I rarely read through the old WDs. They just don't interest me when I look through them. While I enjoy the history, the nostalgia, if you have a large enough collection, then most of the 'hobby articles' are nothing but recycled material used all throughout the 90's (with a few exceptions). The older stats make for an interesting segway, and they are really useful to use as anti 'GW hates your wallet!!!!!' threads, but I honestly doubt there are a lot of people who would be interested in them outside of those that grew up with them.

The same goes for D&D. I refuse to read most of the tripe that is produced these days, but I have an incredibly large 2nd edition collection. However, very rarely am I interested in 1st edition, because I already have a better game, more rules, and more things to keep me interested. I wouldn't stop a game were I playing in a LGS to grope any old 1st edition books, because they just don't do it for me. Doesn't mean I don't take the hobby seriously, or take pride in what I do, either.

sigur
23-10-2008, 06:14
@ehlijen: You do see that your statement and Exterminatus' posting have NOTHING in common? Exterminatus is providing a possible different view of things (without having been there anyway) and you're just posting some personal opinion about stuff.

ehlijen
23-10-2008, 07:09
They're not identical, no. They're not dissimilar either though:

We both stated that not everyone wants to look at old magazines when gaming is another option. Or looking at newer models as opposed to old ones.

If my personal view on this is different, how is stating it different to stating possible different views that I don't share? Aren't they both still possible different views?

chromedog
23-10-2008, 07:14
I know I have more pre-3rd ed issues of WD on my bookshelf than post 3rd ed. When I was going through them prior to moving house a couple of years ago, I specifically kept the ones with modelling articles and there are fewer of these post 3rd ed.

Yeah, the older players (by that, I mean the ones playing since at least 2nd ed, not the 30-something who started with 4th ed) would've stopped to look, as they knew what the big deal was. They remember when WD was a better thing. We remember what conversion beamers looked like, and different kinds of grenades.

The newer crowd have no knowledge of this. They cannot comprehend that there was a 'different' WD, as the current crapola one is all they know. [Warning:Generalisation.]

Angelwing
23-10-2008, 16:45
The box was filled with back issues of white-dwarf...all at around issue 100, loaded with rogue trader goodness.
Naturally kids flocked to this pandora's box.

emboldening mine.

Now I know some people think GW is evil, but the root of all evil? :p

Sidstyler
24-10-2008, 14:11
emboldening mine.

Now I know some people think GW is evil, but the root of all evil? :p

Ha ha, you made my day...:D