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Da Black Gobbo
20-10-2008, 11:25
Hi there! the other day we had a doubt in a game where a goblin with the item that explodes when the bearer dies (don't remember english name) causes 1d6 hits at str 6 to all models in btb, the goblin in question was mounted in a cave squig and then he died, is the squig affected by the item??

Shamfrit
20-10-2008, 11:28
No, it doesn't, as the Squig is on the same base as the goblin, and thus it only affects things in contact with the squig.

At least that's how I'd see it, not that your Squig is likely to survive a combat following his rider dying anyway, but there we go.

grumbaki
20-10-2008, 22:33
Technically, the squig is not hurt by the exploding goblin, as they are not in BSB (they share the same base). However, if I were the goblin player, I'd remember a few things:

1) This is a game. It sucks when people narrowly interpret the rules to make unrealistic things happen. The goblin just exploded, how the bloody hell did the squig not get caught in that? If you voluntarily allow the 'realistic' thing to happen, then (as long as your opponent isn't a git) they will likely reciprocate by doing the same on their end.
2) You are playing greenskins, and your goblin exploded. Part of the draw to greenskins is that they are humorous, and they tend to hurt themselves. Go with the flow and enjoy it.

Braad
21-10-2008, 08:57
1D6 to all 'units' IIRC. That's quite important I guess. The name, btw, is 'brimstone bauble'.

And yes, I completely agree with grumbaki. Though not actually in the rules, it is just utterly weird if the squig doesn't get his bit of pain. But if you say 'no' as O&G player, there is no-one who can argue with that, since you cannot be in btb with your own base.

Da Black Gobbo
21-10-2008, 09:27
Right, i get it, thanks guys, is a bit wierd but well, 1/6 of the O&G units don't do what you want every turn, so what the hell??

BEEGfrog
21-10-2008, 10:43
In the real world certan types of explosions/explosives get a lot of their destructive effect from a shockwave that takes a certain amount of time to fully develop. This means that there can often be a zone near the centre of an explosion where damage is minimal so there is a real world explanation for the effects of this item. Anyway, why shouldn't gobbos get a good result from one of their weird items, they suffer enough penalties.

Braad
21-10-2008, 13:57
Also true. Things like this can often be bend in several ways and fluff/theory can explain about everything.

Da Black Gobbo
21-10-2008, 21:07
The roleplayers/wargamers and people from this "weird" things in spain use to say when something is such ridiculous as this situation "the warp made it like this" or " a powerfull mage did it" i found that this ridiculous explanation tends to solve all "fluff" matters also a friend of mine use to say too, "the tyranids ate them" to explain weird situations in wh40k.

Bob the Butcher
21-10-2008, 21:28
Maybe the Squig shook the dead rider clear before the explosion, or explosion resistant saddle.

Braad
22-10-2008, 06:02
Maybe the explosion was some kind of deadly fungus spores, with the squig being partly fungus (and mainly claws) so immune to the effects.

DeathlessDraich
22-10-2008, 10:11
Each unit in btb with the bearer suffers D6 hits.

These hits are distributed as shooting.

If the bearer was in a normal unit, the hits on the unit he was with, is distributed as shooting.

In this case the bearer's unit is himself!
The Great cave swig is a monstrous mount but unfortunately its rider has been slain, so hits distribution cannot occur as normal.
However the Monster does not count as a separate unit until the end of the phase - in accordance with an FAQ on characters IIRC.

Therefore since the Monster is still deemed (for the moment) to be the old Monstous Mount unit, it will suffer the D6 hits.

Braad
22-10-2008, 18:11
Not really. In base to base contact means one base touching another with its sides. That means there must be two, and the great squig only has one base so his own base cannot be in contact with his own base.

In case of a unit, there are other goblins bases actually touching (in BtB) the characters base, so this is completely different from a monstrous mount.

I completely agree with you in a logical way, but ruleswise not.

SolarHammer
22-10-2008, 18:32
@ Braad
Agree.

It is impossible for a character to be in base to base contact with the mount he is riding.
1 base.
No contact.

DeathlessDraich
23-10-2008, 09:23
It is impossible for a character to be in base to base contact with the mount he is riding.
1 base.
No contact.


Not really. In base to base contact means one base touching another with its sides. That means there must be two, and the great squig only has one base so his own base cannot be in contact with his own base.
.

For simplicity, let us assume that there are only 2 units in combat:

Yes, a model's base cannot be in contact with itself but as you correctly pointed out the rules uses the phrase "units in contact" and not *models*.

The same reasoning could be used when the bearer is in a Goblin infantry unit.
The bearer is in btb with other *models* in his unit but can he also be in contact with the *unit* he is in?
i.e. Can a model be in base contact with the unit it is in?

There is no meaningful answer to this question.

Therefore should D6 hits be inflicted on the bearer's unit as well as the enemy unit.

The answer is unknown but most Orc players, I know inflicts hits on both the bearer's unit and the enemy unit it was in btb. A fair interpretation especially since the phrase "friend or foe" is present.

I've simply extended this interpretation. I've modified the rule to - "hits are inflicted on the bearer's unit and any enemy or friendly unit in base contact with the bearer".

Your interpretation has modified the rule to - "hits are inflicted on units, friend or foe, containing models in base contact with the bearer".

Also acceptable

Braad
23-10-2008, 12:06
Well, if it comes to interpretation in my own battles, then my squig will certainly be blown to smithereens as well...

BUT!
His base is in contact with bases of other models in his unit, and therefore...

Ah, never mind. I'm getting tired of these discussions all over the boards due to bad rules writing by GW. I just came from one about some new chaos sword.
Let's spend our precious time writing them an angry letter to tell them they should write better, and (very importantly) improve their review process (it seems we are very good at it) and sign it with everyone on warseer who agrees (should be many).