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Latro_
22-10-2008, 13:29
I am mainly a 40k player but do have a whole lot of chaos stuff i'v never got round to painting for fantasy, now with the new book it seems a good time.

I might be missing a trick here but i'v been having a look at the new WoC book and writing an army list up. Every time I go to upgrade a unit it seems that all the other marks just dont cut it when you compare them to the mark or nurgle. The -1 to hit seems great for blocks of slow moving infantry (warriors/marauders) and the -1 to opponents WS even more so.

As mentioned i'm not a experienced WH player so perhaps i'm missing something. Originally I was going to do a Slannesh themed army but i'm a not unsure now.

Bac5665
22-10-2008, 13:40
It actually isn't that good. Against any thing that might threaten the Warriors with the mark, the -1 WS doesn't do that much. Warriors have WS5. So in fighting WS4, which becomes WS3, there is no change at all. And most things, like knights, that would threaten the warriors are WS4. WS3 things are worse against the warriors, but most WS3 things aren't going to matter anyway. WS5 things are also affected, and this class helps the warriors, but, other than Elves, there just isn't that much out there with WS5, and are you really worried about Elves in CC? WS6+ is unaffected, for the most part.

The mark of Tzeench has more of an effect more of the time.

blackjack
22-10-2008, 13:56
Yes but chaos warriors worst enemy is ranged attacks. -1 to hit from missile fire is pretty important when you move so slow...

The Red Scourge
22-10-2008, 13:57
WS6+ is unaffected, for the most part.

WS 6 will now hit you on 4+ instead of 3+. Which means charging a line of swordmasters 7 wide, will result in 7 S5 hits instead of 10. Which in the end means one less dead warrior and 1 more dead elf.

I'd hardly call that unaffected :rolleyes:

wizuriel
22-10-2008, 13:59
the thing is though the -1 to hit is also situational based on whats shooting. Pretty much when it works its amazing when it doesn't you get nothing. for a RBT the -1 would be amazing, against something like bows probaly not so much. Also the -1 won't help against anything that doesn't need to roll to hit

the ward save will help against everything

jesters89
22-10-2008, 14:00
I'm inclined to disagree with Bac. Granted, this is largely from anecdotal evidence. The Mark of Nurgle was huge for me in a recent game against dark elves. Causing Reapers to hit on 5+ and 4+ at close range, repeaters to hit on 6+ & then 4+ when double tapping, etc. This was huge. Then you move to the CC phase. The Dark Elf Elites were needing 4s to hit my troops while I needed only 3s. Even as high as WS 6 this has an impact. Normally 6s need 3s to hit warriors... with nurgle they need 4s just like the warriors. It evens the playing ground. Considering the warrior armor class and high strength, suddenly your at a bit of an advantage.

I can only imagine the fun of making empire and orcs (and other WS 3 basic troops) need 5s to hit in CC.

Overall I see nurgle as having more of an impact in my games. Sure, Tzeench is more universal, but it seems to me Nurgle has a more profound impact.

Reinier
22-10-2008, 14:12
I played yesterday with new WOC. MOS is to me the best mark. with ld8 most of the time, you fail you fear and terror test. no autobreak with skeleton units with small 10-12 men blocks

Latro_
22-10-2008, 14:19
Also with marauders vs other ws4 opponents... its very useful as you hit them on 3's right!?
Plus marauders must get shot to bits right? -1 to hit seems good

Lord Khabal
22-10-2008, 14:30
I actually think that MON is more usefull on a big block of marauders than warriors. marauders take casualties from WS3/4 in H2h, which doesn't really happens to warriors most of the time (WS5/T4/2+AS?! cmon?!). warriors either take MOT + blasted standart or MOS + rapturous standart (with BSB for a great anvil). I just think its more effective...
MOK is tricky with M4. I leave that one to the knights...

W0lf
22-10-2008, 15:02
I thought the -1 to hit from shooting would really help.

Then i remembered magic missiles, cannons, stone throwers and organ guns ignore it. They are the real threats.

Axis
22-10-2008, 23:20
Saurus are going to hate nurgle warriors... i still don't understand why they are WS3...

Cognitave
23-10-2008, 02:51
Chances are, though, that your enemy will know about the -1 to hit before the game starts, and just magic or auto hit that block of warriors.

I like the idea of a block of 20+ marauders with GW/Flails and MoNurgle, in that they're already good on the flanks, they're now an even better hammer for that anvil of yours. I can see the best armies taking a block of warriors, BSB with Rap. Standard and MoSlaneesh versus nurgle, with a squad of MoNurgle Marauders and MoKhorne horsemen being more effective than large blocks of warriors.

And as for high warrior armies, MoTzeentch is, in my opinion, better for getting through those magic missiles/organ guns/sallies/throwers.

Morph
23-10-2008, 08:05
Having started up an all-Nurlge force I know the MoN is quite expensive and situational.

The -1 to hit is good, though most war machines don't roll to hit (bolt throwers the main exception) and against an army with only light or no shooting this will have no effect.

As for the -1 enemy Ws when they try and hit you in combat (not when you try and hit them)... For Ws 4 marauders this only really impacts Ws 5 enemies, who now hit on 4+ rather than 3+. It also affects Ws 2 troops but that's much rarer.

Good for Ws 5 warriors against Ws 3 or 6 troops though who are hitting you on 5+ and 4+.

But like I say, it's very situational compared to other marks. Being immune to fear/terror/panic will probably have some effect most games for a unit. Frenzy always has an effect, and a 6+ ward has an effect whenever the unit is wounded.

But the MoN is only effective if being shot by missile fire or against specific Ws in combat. I cam imagine games where a unit doesn't uses the MoN at all; not getting shot and getting into combat with a unit where the Ws change makes no difference.

Shamfrit
23-10-2008, 12:08
Nurgle for my marauder blocks, (hw & shield and LA) and then Khorne for my 12 man flail teams, Slaneesh for my warriors, and tzeentch for characters unless I'm running the Whore on a Horse (Slaneeshi Lvl. 2 on a steed of slaneesh).

bubbathebrute
23-10-2008, 19:33
As for the -1 enemy Ws when they try and hit you in combat (not when you try and hit them)...

Not to change the subject (maybe I should create a new topic) but what is the main consensus on this? I have read posts alluding to both ways. The wording of it could be a little better. I am leaning towards only when they hit the MoN and not both ways, in agreeance to morph. If it was both then it would highly increase MoN usefulness as it would help the offense strength of the unit.

CarlostheCraven
23-10-2008, 19:46
Hi

I don't think you will find a consensus as each mark helps take care of an area a player is concerned about. Depending on your local opponents, what you need will vary.

That being said, regarding the MON, I think it should also be mentioned how useful it is for a large number of WS 7 Lord level heroes to hit Chosen on 4+, while WS 6 Lord level characters are now being hit on 3+. This can radically alter the impact of characters in a combat.

Against BS3 armies, the impact of NoM is amazing, and still good against BS 4 armies. 6+ to hit a long range really means that the number of hits you take are halved. The combat effect is useful in many situations, as there is almost always an occassion where either your marauders, warriors, or chosen get a very distinctive advantage against something.

Of course, how can one not like the MoT? A 6+ ward is infinitely better than no ward save at all. combine this with the occassional 12 roll on the Eye of the Gods table and you are laughing. Mwuhahaha!

Cheers,
Nate

SirA
24-10-2008, 09:07
i'd go with MoN on warriors and MoS an mauraders ;)

Morph
24-10-2008, 12:52
Oh, it's not till I re-read the MoN that I realised it could be taken to mean 2 things. I was actually thinking it was a bit too expensive as it is.

SirA
24-10-2008, 14:14
Oh, it's not till I re-read the MoN that I realised it could be taken to mean 2 things. I was actually thinking it was a bit too expensive as it is.

sorry, I dont really get what you are saying :)

Faustburg
24-10-2008, 15:32
As for the -1 enemy Ws when they try and hit you in combat (not when you try and hit them)... For Ws 4 marauders this only really impacts Ws 5 enemies, who now hit on 4+ rather than 3+. It also affects Ws 2 troops but that's much rarer.


It is a straight -1 WS as long as you are in base contact with Nurgle marked models, not anything about "for attacking" "when trying to hit" or such (like it was for the poor 40K Dark Eldar Wyches). Don't see what would be up for debate.

IMO a good deal for the Nurgelites.

Todes
24-10-2008, 18:05
having some kroxigors with S7 hiting my warriors only on 5 is great too

Dead Man Walking
24-10-2008, 23:00
Your going to find most tourney lists will have nurgle infantry if they bring CW infantry. You would be surprised how much it helps to reduce ws by one, in 40k I have an ability like this on a carnifex and due to that and -1 attack for all models in base I can dive that bad boy into the roughest units and come out the winner.

Mark my word, Mark of nurgle will = Win.

Kyosuke_88
26-10-2008, 13:06
or how much this impacts on ogers...

most of their troops got WS 3... against CW's WS 5...
that means they would fight with WS2 ws CW's WS 5...

Badger
26-10-2008, 22:22
can you take a nurgel marked sorcerer on a chariot and hit the chariot only with -1bs?
or does the chariot have to be marked too?

greetings Badger

veilwalker
26-10-2008, 22:37
Does it stack?

Unit of Chaos Knights with Mark of Nurgle.

Put Archaon in the unit. His mark applies to the unit he is with and grants them -1 to hit and -1 WS.

So if you combine the 2 then do you have -2 WS and -2 to hit the unit?

W0lf
26-10-2008, 23:52
OFc they dont stack.

If i give a unit MoT and put a non-marked hero in he dosnt benefit.

veilwalker
27-10-2008, 00:54
Archaon's mark specifically says it affects the unit he joins.

The Mark of Nurgle affects shooting and units in BtB, thus it should stand to reason that characters that join the unit would benefit from the mark.

It would seem that in the case of Archaon he can stack the mark of nurgle with the unit he joins. Doesn't it?

SolarHammer
27-10-2008, 00:58
Yeah it would affect them at -2 for shooting attacks.

Note that Archaons effect is different in close combat from the Mark of Nurgle: -1 to hit rather than -1WS
So the enemies would be at -1WS and -1 to hit.

GMMStudios
19-11-2008, 13:51
Jesus so knights of nurgle with Archaon would be hit by ws 3 on a 6+.....

W0lf
19-11-2008, 14:01
No not at all.

Read his rules.

GMMStudios
19-11-2008, 14:10
I dont have it with me, what does it say. Ill check when I get to work and post back.

GMMStudios
19-11-2008, 14:56
Yeah unless there is an obscure paragraph somewhere that contradicts the rules in his entry, it pretty plainly says it is so.