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View Full Version : a really cheesy way to charge skirmishers.



General Squeek Squeek
23-10-2008, 04:03
So I have played a game the other day where the enemy charged some cav at my skirmishers. He was easily within range but 4inches before he hit them he did a dramatic wheel so they hit facing 45degrees right from where they would have hit had he continued straight. This let him once he butchered the skirmishers to overrun into a unit that wasn't in anyway within his original lOS. I couldnt find any rules that countered his logic. Is this a situation thats common, is he cheating and I missed the rule, or is it a very cheesy tactic to use.

C=charging unit
e=skirmishers

1.declare charge
----CCCCC


------e e e e
-------e e e

2.wheeled
-------c
------c
-----c
----c
------e e e e
-------e e e

3.hit unit
-------ce
------ce
-----ce
----ce

4.overrun
-------c
------c--------EEEEE
-----c---------EEEEE
----c----------EEEEE
---------------EEEEE

5. result

-------
---------------CEEEEE
---------------CEEEEE
---------------CEEEEE
---------------CEEEEE

SolarHammer
23-10-2008, 04:05
It's called a tactical wheel, and it's perfectly legitimate against skirmishers.

It's one of the drawbacks (perhaps the only drawback) to using them as a screen.

Condottiere
23-10-2008, 05:43
Neat - I have to remember to look out for these opportunities.

Fredmans
23-10-2008, 06:34
There is one caveat. When you charge a skirmishing unit, you have to make contact with the closest visible model in the skirmishing unit (p.67 + FAQ p.2). You can tactically wheel to hit that model in the desired angle of charge. Unlike regular rank and file, the skirmishers then line up against your unit.

/Fredmans

Condottiere
23-10-2008, 07:55
Another case of clipping and sliding (that sounds off, since you can't slide skirmishers). Maximizing contact.

Braad
23-10-2008, 08:00
If this was the exact situation, then indeed, the ones marked red are the ones he has to make initial contact with (one of them, ofcourse) due to the rule given by Fredmans. But since he in fact did make contact with one of those first, it is a legal move.

1.declare charge
----CCCCC


------e e e e
-------e e e

Skrimishing is not always good, and they are already annoying enough.

Wadders
23-10-2008, 08:51
Yes, its legal and a viable tactic.

Personally i see nothing wrong with it for all the benefits skirmishers have.

Harwammer
23-10-2008, 15:04
This is correct. It does impede skirmishers roles as flank protectors (e.g. how duellists are designed to be used in DoW who were written for 6th edition rules).

If you wished to use skirmishers as redirectors, you'd have to do it by fleeing as a charge reaction. Flees by skirmishers move on the line projected from the centre of the charging unit through the closest visible skirmisher.

EvC
23-10-2008, 15:28
Yep, tis true. There are ways you can slightly mitigate it, like if the right three e's were totally flush and forwards a bit and the left e was back some (so that he couldn't make such a huge wheel as to avoid the left e and hit the closer e), but they are difficult to get right.

Atrahasis
23-10-2008, 15:34
You can limit the opportunity for tactical wheels through careful positioning of the skirmishers.

Red can only charge pretty much straight forward, as any wheel would take them into an illegal skirmisher first.

EvC
23-10-2008, 16:01
Nice illustration of what I was trying to say :D

BEEGfrog
23-10-2008, 16:09
Oh no! I disagree again!

What the guy did was both illegal and against the spirit of the rules.

The spirit of the rules says that chargers should only wheel to maximise the number of figures in contact, therefore as the maximum figures will be in contact against skirmishers if the chargers contact at all, then the charger should only really wheel if they would not make contact with the target without wheeling.

The actual illegal bit is wheeling part way through, monsters and chariots may be allowed to pivot part way through a charge but chargers are suppoed to wheel at the beginning, if they wheel at all, and then charge straight to contact before going into alignment mode. Page 21, bottom of left column, top of right. Diagram 66.4 and the first para of pg 67 apply but don't add much to the argument either way.

It would have been legal (but gamesmanship) to wheel at the beginning of the move. And again legal but gamesmanlike to pivot monsters or chariots part way through a move.

The FAQ on charge direction if the skirmishers flee gives clues to what the designers intended chargers to do, but doesn't really apply as it is specifically for when targets flee and doesn't even follow the rules for standard rules for charging.

EvC
23-10-2008, 16:16
The FAQ also explicitly allows tactical charging...

Atrahasis
23-10-2008, 16:31
What the guy did was both illegal and against the spirit of the rules.No, it is explicitly permitted by the 7th edition FAQ.


The actual illegal bit is wheeling part way through, monsters and chariots may be allowed to pivot part way through a charge but chargers are suppoed to wheel at the beginning, if they wheel at all,

Sorry, no. There is no requirement that the wheel happen at any particular point in the charge. Chargers can wheel once during their charge, at any point.

ZiggyQubert
23-10-2008, 17:26
You can limit the opportunity for tactical wheels through careful positioning of the skirmishers.

Red can only charge pretty much straight forward, as any wheel would take them into an illegal skirmisher first.

although to be honest it dosen't limit the wheel all that mutch, see image..

Edit: whoops i wheeled that wrong, but you get the idea...

BEEGfrog
23-10-2008, 17:37
No, it is explicitly permitted by the 7th edition FAQ.



Sorry, no. There is no requirement that the wheel happen at any particular point in the charge. Chargers can wheel once during their charge, at any point.

I was wrong, I don't understand how I managed to interpret it as only being able to wheel at the beginning as I can now see where it says at any point in the charge, right in the section I cited. I even read it again before citing it. :confused:

Gazak Blacktoof
23-10-2008, 22:54
Chargers used to only be able to wheel the beginning of their move, this is no longer the case.