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View Full Version : How to make a WoC Sorcerer a combat hero?



Raverrn
24-10-2008, 06:39
Long story short, I'm playing in a gimmick game and I need to make a Sorcerer that can kill other heroes. What I have so far:

Warrior Familiar (20 pts)
Enchanted Shield (15 points)
Biting Blade (5 points)

Giving my opponent -1 WS, 1 S5 autohit, 3 WS5 S4 -1AS attacks, and a 2+ armor save. My question is thus: Should I drop this stuff for an Axe of Khorne? He'd have 3 WS 5 S5 attacks with killing blow, but only a 4+ AS. He will be in a unit with Frenzy (bonus attack already included), if that makes a difference.

Braad
24-10-2008, 07:05
I don't really know what chaos has to offer right now, but a simple change I would make is the sword with +1 attack instead of the biting blade. Should find in perfect for 10 points extra (exactly 50 points) and I think an extra attack is going to do more damage than that -1 AS against the not so heavily armoured opponents.

But surely, chaos must have more to offer than this?

minionboy
24-10-2008, 08:03
I think Mark of Nurgle and the Chaos Runeblade is a good start. That's pushing him up to WS6, S5, A4, mark of Nurgle effectively giving him +1 WS on top of that.

If he's on foot, you can also give him the Bloodskull Pendant, which does Str 8 KB hits to everyone in base contact in lieu of attacking. Add on the Armour of Morrslieb and a Collar of Khorne and you end up with a guy who is extra resilient to both magic and mundane attacks.

Devon Harmon
24-10-2008, 08:08
Is he allowed to take a Shield? Forgive my ignorance, but I haven't received the new WoC book yet.

Kerrahn
24-10-2008, 08:11
Chaos Sorcerers are allowed to take all forms of magical armour.

It says so in the magic section of the book :)

Von Wibble
24-10-2008, 20:28
I think Mark of Nurgle and the Chaos Runeblade is a good start. That's pushing him up to WS6, S5, A4, mark of Nurgle effectively giving him +1 WS on top of that.

If he's on foot, you can also give him the Bloodskull Pendant, which does Str 8 KB hits to everyone in base contact in lieu of attacking. Add on the Armour of Morrslieb and a Collar of Khorne and you end up with a guy who is extra resilient to both magic and mundane attacks.

I think he meant sorceror not sorceror lord.

Alternative build could be extendable maw? This only loses him 1 attack and could be very dangerous against anything. Add in enchanted shield, warrior familiar and mark of nurgle. Pricy at this point however.

Shamfrit
24-10-2008, 20:31
2 STR 4 attacks and a 4+ save on a wizard not good enough for you already?!

W0lf
24-10-2008, 20:35
Not when he has to challenge and gets twatted by a hero costing less :P

Mr_Rose
24-10-2008, 20:40
Chaos Sorcerers are allowed to take all forms of magical armour.

It says so in the magic section of the book :)
Or possibly it doesn't. This is still open for debate because that sentence is exceedingly ambiguously worded.

Of course, we already have a thread for that debate, so I'll leave it at that.

Von Wibble
24-10-2008, 20:44
Not when he has to challenge and gets twatted by a hero costing less :P

His champion can make the challenge instead. Gets him out of jail for 1 round.

Shamfrit
24-10-2008, 20:51
Oh so we're complaining about wizards dying to combat characters now are we :skull:

Mr_Rose
24-10-2008, 20:59
Nurgle mark and bloodskull pendant. There's your -1WS and, just for a laugh, you get to optionally autohit each model in BtB at S8 with KB instead of maybe hitting once with your WS5 and 2 attacks. And it is two attacks; frenzied units do not confer frenzy on characters that join them (p.78, Characters & Units, under Frenzy/Hatred).

Kalec
24-10-2008, 23:42
Sorcerer lord works well with the runesword or bloodskull pendant.

Basic sorcerers I don't bather gearing for combat. A barded chaos steed to run away is plenty, they need their special toys.

minionboy
24-10-2008, 23:48
Or possibly it doesn't. This is still open for debate because that sentence is exceedingly ambiguously worded.

Of course, we already have a thread for that debate, so I'll leave it at that.

Uh... Maybe my book has an ambiguous typo but it says under "Using Chaos Magic" on page 106:

"The term 'Sorcerer' is used to describe Wizards who follow the Chaos Gods. Sorcerers are unusual in that they wear Chaos armor and us magic shields or magic armor just like other Champions of Chaos. This makes them formidable close combat opponents as well as masters of the Magic phase - a combination that is rare indeed in the armies of lesser mortals."

Where's the ambiguous part, it says right there that they can use magic armor and shields.

theunwantedbeing
24-10-2008, 23:53
Mark, Daemon sword.
There you go, st5-7 4-9 attacks, average at 6-7 st6 attacks. Pretty decent really.

Mr_Rose
25-10-2008, 12:07
Mark, Daemon sword.
There you go, st5-7 4-9 attacks, average at 6-7 st6 attacks. Pretty decent really.I thought that the OP wanted a plan for a hero-level sorcerer?

offtopic words
Which part of "we already have a thread for that debate, so I'll leave it at that" didn't you understand?

Leogun_91
25-10-2008, 22:12
Mark of Nurgle, chaos runesword and palanquin of nurgle, that will make him pretty dam annoying for anyone, or maybe just make him really tooled to survive and give him a warrior fammilar and the palanquin to deal with opponents

Havock
25-10-2008, 22:31
Oh so we're complaining about wizards dying to combat characters now are we :skull:

As a Tzeentch player, I do miss my warrior-mages somewhat. Because though they were a 6th ed novelty, they were an awesome idea.

And put your sorcerers on steeds: +1 S4 attack and a increase your AS by 2.

sulla
26-10-2008, 01:12
Which part of "we already have a thread for that debate, so I'll leave it at that" didn't you understand?

You claimed something was ambiguous, Minionboy debunked your claim with a direct quote from the rulebook. I'm sure he understood your post perfectly but you aren't the sole arbiter of what gets posted on message boards...;)

Shamfrit
26-10-2008, 01:17
As a Tzeentch player, I do miss my warrior-mages somewhat. Because though they were a 6th ed novelty, they were an awesome idea.

And put your sorcerers on steeds: +1 S4 attack and a increase your AS by 2.

3STR4 attacks and a 2+ save on a Spellcaster is more than enough for me I'd say.

The Red Scourge
26-10-2008, 06:21
3STR4 attacks and a 2+ save on a Spellcaster is more than enough for me I'd say.

Add to that an enchanted shield, and you still have points for an infernal puppet :)

minionboy
26-10-2008, 08:12
You claimed something was ambiguous, Minionboy debunked your claim with a direct quote from the rulebook. I'm sure he understood your post perfectly but you aren't the sole arbiter of what gets posted on message boards...;)

;)

Glad I'm not the only one... Besides, I tried looking for that thread and couldn't find it.

Anyhow, back on topic. I like the Chaos Daemonsword, but it means the only shield you get is the Chaos Runeshield. The Chaos Runesword gives you stats comparable to most fighty lords. Putting him on a Palanquin will give an extra 6 poisoned attacks, or a Daemonic Mount for 2 extra Str 5 attacks. With that much damage you can afford to spend for a bit of protection, like the Armor of Damnation, or Morrslieb.

Also for protection, you can give him the Mark of Tzn. + Morrslieb + Fury of the Blood God, 3+ ward to Spells (and MR2), 3+ ward to non-magic attacks, 6+ ward to magic melee and 2+ Armor save if mounted on a barded steed. Not too Shabby and still leaves 65 points for other goodies!

For all of the crazyness my favorite is Mark of Tzeentch, Chaos Runesword, Chaos Runeshield and Barded Steed. Throw him in a unit of Chaos Knights with the Blasted Standard and he's set. 4+ ward from range, 1+ save in combat, 6+ ward in combat (hey, it's something), ignores magic weapons and WS6, Str 5, A4.

Eta
26-10-2008, 11:15
Also for protection, you can give him the Mark of Tzn. + Morrslieb + Fury of the Blood God, 3+ ward to Spells (and MR2), 3+ ward to non-magic attacks, 6+ ward to magic melee and 2+ Armor save if mounted on a barded steed. Not too Shabby and still leaves 65 points for other goodies!

Remember that you cannot take any magical items if you use Fury of the Blood God.

Greetings
Eta

Havock
26-10-2008, 13:46
3STR4 attacks and a 2+ save on a Spellcaster is more than enough for me I'd say.

But 4 S5 attacks is even better :evilgrin:

A more important thing: The old Tzeentch characters were a ******** of points. Lots of points in few models = cheaper army :p

minionboy
26-10-2008, 21:06
Remember that you cannot take any magical items if you use Fury of the Blood God.

Greetings
Eta

doh! Yeah, ok, so scratch that one...

Vilicate
26-10-2008, 21:30
I've been equipping my Sorcerer Lord w/ Daemonsword and Enchanted Shield.

He's been doing fairly well, and even when he hits himself, the worst save he'll have is a 4+/6+.

It's a fairly decent combo.

Havock
27-10-2008, 01:39
Bloodskull pendant on a sorcerer = ***** & giggles.
"My wizard does 3 automatic S8 KB hits on your unit"
-WHAT!?

SolarHammer
27-10-2008, 01:48
I've been equipping my Sorcerer Lord w/ Daemonsword and Enchanted Shield.

He's been doing fairly well, and even when he hits himself, the worst save he'll have is a 4+/6+.

It's a fairly decent combo.

How do you figure 4+?

He doesn't get the benefit for fighting with a Handweapon and Shield as the Daemonsword is not a Handweapon.

So with his 2+ save, with a -4 modifier from S7, he will have a 6+/6+.

EDIT:
Chaos Steed. Got it.

Alkanchel
27-10-2008, 01:51
You claimed something was ambiguous, Minionboy debunked your claim with a direct quote from the rulebook. I'm sure he understood your post perfectly but you aren't the sole arbiter of what gets posted on message boards...;)

Maybe mr_rose just didn't want to hijack this thread...

(And Minionboy's quote does not "debunk" the ambiguity, since it's just that quote that has given rise to the controversy.)

minionboy
27-10-2008, 05:08
Maybe mr_rose just didn't want to hijack this thread...

(And Minionboy's quote does not "debunk" the ambiguity, since it's just that quote that has given rise to the controversy.)

Plain english is hard to comprehend.

So what does your post have to do about the potential equipment?

Anyhow, the Bloodskull Pendant, Enchanted Shield and Collar of Khorne can be a surprising opponent. 3 auto-hit S8 KB attacks, then having the 2+ save and 5+ ward (with mark of tzn).

FallenAfh
27-10-2008, 05:22
Plain english is hard to comprehend.

So what does your post have to do about the potential equipment?

Anyhow, the Bloodskull Pendant, Enchanted Shield and Collar of Khorne can be a surprising opponent. 3 auto-hit S8 KB attacks, then having the 2+ save and 5+ ward (with mark of tzn).

He has a 1+ armor save including the hand weapon and shield bonus.

minionboy
27-10-2008, 06:46
He has a 1+ armor save including the hand weapon and shield bonus.

Yeah, but he has a Magic Shield.

Vilicate
27-10-2008, 06:56
And?

The stipulation that you don't get the extra save only applies to magical hand weapons and shields, not non-magical hand weapons and magical shields.

Havock
27-10-2008, 06:56
You still get the HW/shield bonus for a magic shield, it's the magic weapon that negates that since it's not a true 'handweapon' anymore.

*edit*
Damn your ninja skills.

FallenAfh
27-10-2008, 09:09
You still get the HW/shield bonus for a magic shield, it's the magic weapon that negates that since it's not a true 'handweapon' anymore.

*edit*
Damn your ninja skills.

Unless the magic weapon has the hand weapon rule in the description, then you'll still get the bonus save.