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willadams33
26-10-2008, 19:13
If a vampire has the 'Avatar of Death' vampire power, can his skill be chosen from game to game in a torny, or does it have to be predecided before, and last for the whole torney?

Many Thanks,

Will Adams

BEEGfrog
26-10-2008, 21:10
I would be interested in the answer, my first reaction would be it would be like spell use, e.g. with plaque of tepok a slann can select an extra spell: he has to take the plaque in every game but can have a different spell, or choice of lore per game.

But just an opinion...

Gazak Blacktoof
26-10-2008, 23:00
Does it say when you choose your ability?

Spells are chosen randomly at the start of the game which is why spells generated by items like the staff of volans or spell familiars aren't part of the army list. Unless the power specifies a "game time" during which you select your power, then I'd say it should be written down on the army list.

BEEGfrog
27-10-2008, 00:55
I have looked at the description in the book and it gives no indication of timing so there are 4 options:

1) Decide at beginning of tourney: no evidence against, joint most likely interpretation. Should meet wysiwyg.

2) Decide at beginning of game, can change during tourney: no evidence against, joint most likely interpretation. How to represent wysiwyg? Different models?

3) Can decide at beginning of each combat: the "or" in the list of three options makes it less likely than options 1 & 2, but still a possible option as it doesn't break any rules, although in this case I would have expected a mechanism. How to represent wysiwyg? Model with all 3 options?

4) Like Orc "Armed to da teef": again the "or" in the list of three options makes it less likely than options 1 & 2, not really a valid option as it doesn't keep to any rules and doesn't have rules or a specified mechanism to claim it overrides normal rules. How to represent wysiwyg? Model with all 3 options?

Jagosaja
27-10-2008, 05:32
I've asked this at my local gaming store, as they run official tournaments here, and they say that you choose at the beginning of the tournament. Not like with Forbidden Lore where you can choose for each game. The main reason is, as you have guessed, WYSIWYG, and you cannot change models in the tourney.

Too bad as I am stuck with my 2 weapons for the tourney now.

SolarHammer
27-10-2008, 05:45
and you cannot change models in the tourney.

What the hell are you supposed to do if someone kills a monstrous mount?
"Sorry! You can't change models!"

That is the damn dumbest tournament rule I have ever heard.

Jagosaja
27-10-2008, 08:10
No, no, not in that sense, but between games. Say, this game I'll use this model, and the next game I'll use another one. In that way you cannot change models. Of course you will use another model if someone slays your dragon and the rider is still alive.

SolarHammer
27-10-2008, 08:37
What's the difference?

Why would they bother making that a rule?

If I have 5 Goblin Fanatics in my army, and I bring 6 to the event, are they going to come out and make sure the same Fanatic stays in my box all tournament?

It's like the nanny-state come to Warhammer...

Jagosaja
27-10-2008, 09:00
It makes the difference for heroes if the models are not wearing the same equipment. A fanatic is a fanatic, so you can use any of models for it, there is no difference.

I understand that one can change the model and explain prior to the battle, but the rules are set like that to avoid complications. And I say they make sense, although they are not necessary.

DeathlessDraich
27-10-2008, 09:19
It's up to the tournament organisers to decide of course but the decision above is poor.

Only army lists need to be the same in tournaments.
The army list with Avatar of Death will simply state - Avatar of Death.

Dice rolls, effects, special abilities etc should not be carried over from one game to another.

It would be not far off as,
insisting that characters join the same units in every game,
or that a unit of Bret Knights having to choose to adopt the Lance formation or choosing the Pray/Lady's blessing in every game,
or DE Assassins that deploy as Scouts in 1 game cannot then be Hidden in the next etc etc

These decisions are made for a game only - There are no decisions, in the rule book, that extend to every game in Warhammer. Any such rule would be absurd anyway.