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minionboy
26-10-2008, 20:19
Ah Halberds, the bastard-child of warhammer weapons...

So I totally ignored this option at first with the Warriors of Chaos and went straight for HW+S or Great Weapon, but then I came to a realization. Chaos Warriors with Halberds get A2 S5 with them and still strike at I5. (un)Holy crap!

That still wounds T3 on 2+ with -2 save. I was wondering if any other generals will be joining the ranks of Halberdiers!

Kardon
26-10-2008, 21:47
I will, made the same conclusion as u did. Depending on what im facing ofc.

Leogun_91
26-10-2008, 22:11
I did that conclusion in last edition (with chosen then ofcourse) and have allready a unit moddeled with it, my next will have shields however so I can have really hard troops.

Havock
27-10-2008, 05:09
I'd take shields and halberds in the case I'd take Halberds: if only for the versatility, after all. Equipping a unit of 15 warriors (which is really about the largest size warriors you'll ever take) with shields and halberds costs only 30 pts on top of their base cost, but gives them huge versatility, same goes for the additional handweapon choice. The shield is just mandatory IMO. Especially now that they can win combats on their own.

Shamfrit
27-10-2008, 07:31
I'd second Havock, sometimes the STR5 is great against tougher opponents but then again, the 2+ combat save will make your Warriors the best non special anvil in the game...definately take both, then there's no 'DUH' regret halfway through the game when you roll loads of 4's on your saves against Str 4 troops etc.

Lordsaradain
27-10-2008, 08:00
Yeah, halberds all the way. Now that they are only 1 point each I'll be using halberds and sheilds so I can freely choose depenining on situation. Throw in MoK and I've got some pretty sweet killing power, a unit with 6 wide = 19 Ws5 S5 attacks.

macbeth
27-10-2008, 08:23
Halberds are great! The best weapon of the game. I use them as often as I can!

Avian
27-10-2008, 13:58
Yeah, against something with good stats to begin with, halberds are quite nice, and for only a point each they are great. I'm testing out my brand new Chaos army with a unit of 12 with halberds and shields and I am actually tempted to take a second unit.

logan054
27-10-2008, 14:03
the problem with halberds isnt the weapon but normally the model carrying them

Odin
27-10-2008, 14:04
I really don't understand why GW have made Great Weapons 2 points for warriors, when halberds are a much better option and only 1 point. Bizarre. And also annoying, as I don't think Halberds belong in a Chaos army - they just don't fit IMO.

Halberds and Shields is probably the best set-up for warriors. That way you can choose to be either defensive or offensive depending on who you're facing.

Crispian25
27-10-2008, 14:06
Darn all of you to the greatest depths of Heck (family forum and all)! Now I've got to buy more junk since I hate not being WYSIWYG...

minionboy
27-10-2008, 17:08
I really don't understand why GW have made Great Weapons 2 points for warriors, when halberds are a much better option and only 1 point. Bizarre. And also annoying, as I don't think Halberds belong in a Chaos army - they just don't fit IMO.

Halberds and Shields is probably the best set-up for warriors. That way you can choose to be either defensive or offensive depending on who you're facing.

I'm guessing the 2 point Great Weapon was because of the -3 armor save you get with them.

Halberds have always been in the chaos army. Back before the days of plastic chaos warriors, nearly all of the metal warriors had halberds.

At least GW is putting out those conversion packs with halberds, although at $12 per 10, it's kind of annoying. I also noticed that the halberd arms only take up one hand, I wonder if they were planning on people wanting to take Halberd + Shield.

Avian
27-10-2008, 17:19
I guess that is more for want of differentiation between halberds and great weapons.


BTW: Back in the old days, Goblins could get halberds!

Vile Druchii
27-10-2008, 17:22
As far as Chaos warriors are concerned, I think Halberds are very good, but again it really depends on what you're fighting. The extra point of strength and -1 AS that a great weapon provides might just tip things in your balance in certain combats. But I agree that as an all-round weapon, halberds are good. I'm just used to fighting High Elves where I might as well take great weapons because I'm striking last anyway!

Da Black Gobbo
28-10-2008, 12:21
I think is the best weapon for warriors, including of course the shield (as said i also think is mandatory) against elves you don't need the great weapon, str5 is enough since there is no elf with t4, all of them are t3. By the way, what, in your opinion, is the best mark for them??

Vile Druchii
28-10-2008, 12:47
I do generally go for hand weapon and shield against High Elves, as I even get a 4+ armour save against Swordmaster's, and with strength 5 it's 2+ to wound and they don't get an armour save at all. But there's nothing wrong with having a unit of can openers with great weapons for any Dragon Princes running around.

As for marks, I haven't considered any except Nurgle. Ever since I started playing Chaos all those years ago, I've stuck with Nurgle. Mostly because it provides the best modelling and painting opportunities, but also because I think he'd appreciate my sense of loyalty! Errrm...if he were real that is...ahem. Yes...

fredster4050
28-10-2008, 15:26
Can I just check, if equipped with halberds, shield bonuses cannot be used in CC, only against missle fire?

Da Black Gobbo
28-10-2008, 15:31
Correct 3+ against missile fire, or 2+ in combat with handweapon that they allready have or 4+ save with halberd. Versatility.

Shamfrit
28-10-2008, 18:22
Incorrect.

Halberds dissallow the use of your shield, so your save against Swordmasters in combat is 6+. You don't get the +1 armour save or the parry bonus obviously.

Still, 4+ with HW&Shield is indeed very nice.

minionboy
28-10-2008, 18:31
Incorrect.

Halberds dissallow the use of your shield, so your save against Swordmasters in combat is 6+. You don't get the +1 armour save or the parry bonus obviously.

Still, 4+ with HW&Shield is indeed very nice.

I think he was referring to using the HW&Shield against sword masters, not the Halberd.

I'm really liking the halberd more and more with these rules. The great weapon is getting more difficult to justify, and I can never think of an excuse for the 2nd HW. Although, with the Lizardmen coming soon, that S6 may come in handy.

badguyshaveallthefun
28-10-2008, 19:09
It is hard to justify great weapons because it's also wasting their great I5. But the new plastic kit great weapons look so darn cool I want 12 of them anyway as a flanker unit for my marauders.
I think additional hand weapons are great. Granted against the types of troops they're most effective against you're usually winning the combat anyway and so don't need those extra attacks, but it can be fun rolling all those attacks and outright slaughtering what they're up against. I like them particularly against undead, where I need to kill as many skeletons/zombies as I can so that the unit crumbles that much faster and I'm not tarpitted at all/for very long.

Shamfrit
28-10-2008, 19:21
Great Weapons, Mark of Khorne, unit of ten...

6 wide, the intention is to charge, and cleave through virtually anything, with 3 STR6 attacks per model, that's 19 attacks (assuming a champion.)

The assumption with the halberd is you've been charged.

Havock
28-10-2008, 23:59
At least GW is putting out those conversion packs with halberds, although at $12 per 10, it's kind of annoying. I also noticed that the halberd arms only take up one hand, I wonder if they were planning on people wanting to take Halberd + Shield.

And why wouldn't you? ;)
Swordmasters? Switch to HW/shield.
Pesky ranked swordsmen? Gogo halberds!

Stezerok
29-10-2008, 02:41
Wait so how does all of this work? Because I know you can't gain the bonus for the shields while marching right? And then what, you can decide which weapon options you want to use at the beginning of each turn? I'm just trying to get a feel for how such a unit would work...

Good Hunting,
-Stezerok

Lord Dan
29-10-2008, 02:49
Chosen. Shield. Halberd. MoN.

Hammertime!

mattschuur
29-10-2008, 05:19
Shamfrit The Narroq- I said that Chaos warriors with shields and a mark are one of the best anvil units in the game and i got hammered in another thread. Nurgle and Tzeentch are absurdly survivable.

I'll have 1 small unit of Nurgle warrior with Halberds, giving them a better chance to hit and survive in combat and a slightly better chance from shooting. Although the shield warriors are great.

matt schuur

Morph
29-10-2008, 12:08
Wait so how does all of this work? Because I know you can't gain the bonus for the shields while marching right?



Not sure where you got that from.

Will test out Halberds vs GWs. My worry is against cavalry or other troops with a high save (like other Chaos) the S6 and -3 save might be more useful.

Against low T, lightly armoured guys relying on a 2+ save and having 2 S4 attacks might be better than using halberds.

With all the ASF out there nowadays, the fact that GWs strike last might not matter.

Havock
29-10-2008, 13:07
One thing to consider is that GW's cost two pts to the halberds' one.

Shmee
29-10-2008, 14:04
You still benefit from the +1 AS from the shield when marching, so the shield would give u a 3+ AS vs range, 2+ AS in cc with s/s or 4+ AS at S5 with halb.

fredster4050
30-10-2008, 16:05
Another check as I'm missing something.

If I buy halberds and shields for my CW unit then that is all they are armed with for the battle, correct? The halberd replaces my handweapon.

In this case the save is 4+ for the chaos armour (or 3+ from missle fire inc. shield) as halberds are two handed but without the GW penalty of striking last, therefore my shield is ineffective in close combat?

Avian
30-10-2008, 16:10
No, you only replace your hand weapon with something when it explicitly says that you do this. And guys with halberds and shields can always choose to use hand weapons and shields in combat if they so wish.

fredster4050
30-10-2008, 16:25
Ok thanks, but what about halberds and shields in CC, I thought halberds were 2 handed in CC preventing shield use?

Stezerok
31-10-2008, 00:24
Not sure where you got that from.

I thought the big book said that when on the march soldiers would sheath their weapons, and sling their shields to literally "move at the double", and thus could not gain any bonuses for shields or whatever that turn if they marched... Or was this some previous edition?


Ok thanks, but what about halberds and shields in CC, I thought halberds were 2 handed in CC preventing shield use?

Yes this is true. Basically what they're saying is, move up under the enemies fire with Shields for a 3+ save. Then when you are about to charge or be charged switch over to Halberd for that turn to hit the enemy at WS, Str, and I 5.

Good Hunting,
-Stezerok

CGLover
31-10-2008, 12:50
You still gain the shield bonus ,even if you marched.

Stezerok
01-11-2008, 02:33
You still gain the shield bonus ,even if you marched.

thanks... :rolleyes:

Good Hunting,
-Stezerok

SolarHammer
01-11-2008, 07:00
What is the emoticon for there? Earlier in this thread, on this very page you said you don't get the bonus for marching.

Here, I'll quote it for you:

Wait so how does all of this work? Because I know you can't gain the bonus for the shields while marching right? And then what, you can decide which weapon options you want to use at the beginning of each turn? I'm just trying to get a feel for how such a unit would work...

Good Hunting,
-Stezerok


So I don't get you rolling your eyes at being corrected.
Were you initially wrong and then corrected, and sassy about being corrected?
Or did you know you got the bonus while marching all along and you just posted a bunch of nonsens for no reason?

What's going on here?

Stezerok
01-11-2008, 19:20
What is the emoticon for there? Earlier in this thread, on this very page you said you don't get the bonus for marching.

Here, I'll quote it for you:



So I don't get you rolling your eyes at being corrected.
Were you initially wrong and then corrected, and sassy about being corrected?
Or did you know you got the bonus while marching all along and you just posted a bunch of nonsens for no reason?

What's going on here?

I posted the emoticon, because the question had been answered several times beforehand by other people, and I had already come away with that conclusion. That last response was just a bit late and thus the reason why I found it funny. I apologize if this is offensive to you, but where I'm from, sarcasm and small jabs are fairly common and used to punctuate lighthearted moments. There's no need to call "sassyness" or "nonsense", it's just a bit of play. ;)

Good Hunting,
-Stezerok

Neknoh
01-11-2008, 19:31
The Hallberd is an excellent weapon should you expect protracted combats, I was a big follower of it in our last book, as am I now, however, there is something about warriors tackling in with greatweapons or additional handweapons, slaughtering everything in their way.

Hallberds are great, however, as are all the other weapons, especially now that the additional handweapons are AS CHEAP as Hallberds. I am a bit suprised to be honest, whenever I would suggest Hallberds before, people tried to shoot me down, claiming the more expensive Add. HW were better, what has changed now?

I still believe in Hallberds, but it is good to have cheap options as well, Khornate Warriors with Additional Handweapons... 6 wide... Champion... that's 25 attacks on the charge. Hallberds/Greatweapons "only" get 19 :p

W0lf
01-11-2008, 20:14
I just cant force myself to use halberds over hand weapon/shield in the games ive played lol. T4 with a 2+ is just too good.

However i always take them as an option. 2S5 I5 is amazing.

w3rm
01-11-2008, 22:26
I had no flippin' idea you can take halberds and shields. It's time to cnvert some stormermin!