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View Full Version : What do you think of new Righteous Zeal rule for Black Templars?



Venerable_Bede
18-11-2005, 11:16
I just got my BT codex yesterday and there it was in black and white. The Righteous Zeal rule now provides that where a BT infantry unit takes one or more casualties (not just 25%) from shooting it must take a leadership test. If it passes, it goes forward D6. If it fails, it falls back like a unit that has taken 25% casualties.

I find this a bit odd. First, it actually makes the Righteous Zeal rule something of a liability because it makes it easier to make a BT infantry unit fall back from shooting.

I also think it runs counter to the fluff; Here you have this unit of zealots who will fall back if they fail a morale check after taking even one casualty, where any other unit in the game would shrug it off.

I think the rule should have been written to provide that the BT unit does not fall back on failing the test, unless it has taken 25% casulaties from shooting in the turn like any other unit.

What do you think?

Lord Balor
18-11-2005, 11:39
Considering however overpowered it was in the previous edition, i'd have to say that the new rules reins the Black Templars in a bit. Considering a marine's LD, you'll fail all of once in a game of six turns whilst potentially gaining 5-30'' of movement in the other 5 turns. The next thing GW should do is make the Blood Rage as much a liability as it is an advantage.

Always remember that Rules and Background never dance, but rather stare at each other from the opposite side of the hall...

Venerable_Bede
18-11-2005, 14:37
I'm not complaining that they've been weakened.

It just seems uncharacteristic of these fanatic warriors to run away when they suffer a single casualty from shooting where other normal units would shrug it off.

RampagingRavener
18-11-2005, 14:55
Fluff doesn't equal rules, and never has. Otherwise marines would all have two wounds and 3+ invulnerable saves.

Also, if you stick chaplains around the place, you can lessen the disadvantages. Take Grimaldus, even.

Righteous Zeal now has a definate advantage (most of the time you'll run forwards) and a definate disadvantage (occasionally, they'll run backwards), so IMO its pretty balenced.

If its any condolence, by Black Templars opponent feels the same way.:p

Lord Dante
18-11-2005, 15:15
of course fluff doesnt equal rules as its a game

but that doesnt mean rules shouldnt make logical sense and represent the essence of what is supposed to be taking place.

In the movement phase when u move your units pretty bees come out and sting everyone - what? its just a game, who care if whats going on is totaly stupid...

Venerable_Bede
18-11-2005, 15:45
Well, the effectiveness of RZ was already lessened by reducing the forward movement to D6 (didn't it used to be the better of 2D6?).

So I don't get the concept behind making them fall back so easily (it's not that hard to fail a leadership test of 8).

I'm wondering whether they did it that way just to keep things simple.

Oberon
18-11-2005, 17:12
When will they run? After one casualty and failing the test immediately after that, or taking one casualty and failing the test after shooting phase? -->Can BT unit fall back/move forward more than once in one turn?

RampagingRavener
18-11-2005, 17:28
Nope, tests are made at the end of a turn. You can't, for example, lead a unit forwards several times in one turn to get it into assault range of a carnifex.

Besides, if you have a commander on the feild, doesn't he affect RZ tests? Its quite hard to fail Ld10, after all.

Venerable_Bede
18-11-2005, 17:38
That may be, but then you've got to take a commander and an Emperor's Champion, so if you want to fit a Chaplain in too you're talking about a lot of points.

WanderingRogue
18-11-2005, 17:50
one thing to think about though is the fact that if an enemy is gonna shoot at a black templar squad he is gonna do it hard. for eg.

at the beginning of the game the only thing in range of the templars from the other opponent is a lascanon (for eg) now is that player gonna shoot that one lascannon at a sqaud , therby probably killing one if he hits(more often than not) and rsiking a more than likely marine advance ....or..... is he more likely say "stuff it i'll wait a turn and shoot that sqaud once they have moved in range of more weapons - i aint giving him no free move!" and then shot the lascannon at a speeder.

the pont im making is - bar some unfortuanate dice rolling id imagine any serious player wanting to thin a crusader squad down is gonn play the odds and more than likely take more than one down - and if he does only take one down then the bt will prob pass anyway.

anybody that tries to pick off templars a tiny bit at a time or risk those "three grot blaster shots at that marine - you never know" occasions will soon learn its not a good idea and i belive that aspect of the rule wont come up that much in the future.

sliganian
18-11-2005, 18:18
I'm sure most Ork players will love the new Zeal rule in the right circumstances:

Shoota boyz from 18" away: *dakka dakka dakka*
One unlucky BT model: Urk! <thump>
Other BT's: "They killed Brother Ablative! FORWARD!!!"
<run forward some number less than 6">
NEXT TURN
Killa Kans and Slugga boyz -- who were cleverly standing beside the Shoota boys -- move forward and charge the now in-range BT's...... ;)

GodofWarTx
18-11-2005, 19:11
I'm sure most Ork players will love the new Zeal rule in the right circumstances:

Shoota boyz from 18" away: *dakka dakka dakka*
One unlucky BT model: Urk! <thump>
Other BT's: "They killed Brother Ablative! FORWARD!!!"
<run forward some number less than 6">
NEXT TURN
Killa Kans and Slugga boyz -- who were cleverly standing beside the Shoota boys -- move forward and charge the now in-range BT's...... ;)


Hi all! First post at warseer. Had a few at portent before it =)


On to it, it works great also with deep striking. Let me tell you it was a blast dropping in a unit of 10 assault terminators (Lysander Terminator Army o' deff) shooting a crusader squad, who promptly charged into otherwise harmless terminators, who proceeded to rip them to shreds, then consolidate and spread out to avoid a killer Vindicator shot that would have done huge damage.

In my opinion, with the new Righteous Zeal rules, playing against the templars will reward intelligence and cunning with lures like this, and severely punish careless play by the sheer speed of their zeal as they move forward. IMO, a brilliant move.

Playing my templars now will be interesting to try to spot some traps that people will figure out!

Grimaldus
18-11-2005, 19:20
And for reasons like those above, I totally believe that being a BT player just got a whole lot more fun and interesting. The new Righteous Zeal rules are a huge, monumental even!, improvement over the last. Every advantage must have some inherited disadvantage...in rules terms, anyway. The risk of falling back, or running head-first into a cleverly placed ambush is great. This is the kind of thing that makes the game fun...a slight lack of control every now and then, sometimes aiding you, sometimes hindering you. Very Dorn, very Fists, and very Templar. I think in this case the rules actually cover the background very nicely. Falling back doesn't always mean running away in complete terror, either.