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Latro_
27-10-2008, 22:22
Bit od a noob question, just thinking about chaos stuff and might take a hero on a disc. I'v just read the flying an LOS rules and wanted to check that you 'can' charge though (fly over) models if they are in the way of your intended target, as long as you can see them.

You can see a unit to change them if you get to a model's eye view from the model to the target.

So could i for example, be a lil bit cheeky and model my hero so his 'clear' plastic bit that represents the hovering is a bit higher than normal so he has a more commanding view over the heads of other units so he can better pick his charges?

theunwantedbeing
27-10-2008, 22:26
Yup, charging fliers can move over interveining troops and scenery.
Page 87?(total guess...my book is currently overrun by dark riders and I cant be bothered taking them off)

A model needs to be a large target to see over enemy models, or needs to be on a higher bit of terrain.
The height of the model in question is utterly irrelevant (unlike in 40k).

Latro_
27-10-2008, 22:39
If that is the case why can they charge over inverveining models if they could never charge the target in the first place? Is this soley to cover the fact the target might be 'large'?

I read the rules about models blocking LOS to mean if you were at the same level, e.g. you trace true LOS from your guys and if there are any enemy or friendly models in the way it blocks the LOS. Obv if you are on a big flying platform the TLOS wont likly be blocked.

hmm perhaps clutchin at straws, dunno.

Griefbringer
27-10-2008, 23:10
Many of the flying beasties (such as dragons) are large targets and thus can see over regular units.

narrativium
28-10-2008, 00:40
But harpies, fell bats, furies etc. aren't large models, and therefore can't see over other units - the same way other units can't see over units to charge or shoot them.

A unit of harpies on a hill, seeing an enemy unit, can charge over both friendly and enemy units below hill-level to hit it.

BEEGfrog
28-10-2008, 01:48
The current version of GW "flying" has units/models making swoops or glides between rests on the ground.

If any one of the models in a unit can see any part of the target unit from the charging units resting place on the ground then the unit counts LOS for charging. The actual charge is a swoop so can pass over intervening units or terrain.

Shooting LOS is per model as normal and again counts as if resting on the ground.

Latro_
28-10-2008, 10:24
So if i put my hero on disc of tzeentch on a base with a 4" clear plastic pole:

H
D
P
P
P
P

If he is on the ground and there are two units of orks O1 and O2 he cannot charge O2 as O1 is block LOS, even though being about 5" off the ground I can see all of O2 if i look at the model's eye view.

H-> O1 O2


I guess this makes flyers not that great really, You can just protect units with flanking units like you can if it were anything wanting to make a big charge from the side. Mindyou the disc is only 4pts more than a horse,,, might take it for the giggles.

narrativium
28-10-2008, 11:13
O1, as a unit of interposing orcs, blocks line of sight so O2 can't be seen. If O2 had bows, they couldn't shoot the hero for the same reason.

Terrain, on the other hand, is up to you and your opponent. If you place the hero behind a hill, then your agreement decides whether the model can be seen even then and thus O1 could charge it or shoot at it. Likewise whether you could charge O1 through the hill. My group would play it that the troops and terrain would hide anything which would be visible above and behind them, unless it's on a hill or is large (the flying unit lands at the end of its movement phase anyway), and thus the hill would hide the flyer regardless of the height of the pole.

Latro_
28-10-2008, 13:40
Fair dos, I guess it makes sense to have a very straight forward LOS system for charging in fantasy owing to the amount of differnt sized models/weird bases.

ghoust
29-10-2008, 21:05
Charge over enemy units is still usefull:
Harpies are skirmishers, so it could be that one model sees the unit to be charged, but there is no clear path for your whole unit of harpies towards your enemy unit. In that case your harpies can make use of the rule for charging over differnt units, as long as one model is capable of drawing a line of sight:

EEEEEEE
EEEEEEE


WWW
WWW


H H H

----^
I this one will be able to draw line of sight..

narrativium
29-10-2008, 23:46
The rightmost harpy (H) can see the rightmost front enemy (E), despite the inbetween woods (W), if I've read your diagram right, in which case yes, they can charge the enemy.