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Weemo
28-10-2008, 12:42
Hi guys, just writing up some lists and i was wondering what you thought about this?

Lord of Khorne - 330
Mark of Khorne, Axe of Khorne, Collar of Khorne, Enchanted Shield, Favour

Sorcerer of Chaos - 235
2 Dispel Scrolls, Chariot of Chaos

2 x 18 Marauders of Khorne - 280
FC, Mark of Khorne, Great Weapons

20 Chosen of Khorne - 545
FC, Mark of Khorne, Halberds, Shields,
Blasted Standard, Champ = Helm Of Many Eyes

2 x 5 Marauder Horsemen - 162
Mus, Flails

2 x 5 Warhounds - 60

Warshrine of Chaos - 130

Giant of Khorne - 255 / Hellcannon + 1 Spawn - 260


the Lord runs with the expensive chosen and hunt down as much as possible, marauders flank the chosen with the chariot and warshrine in between, giant goes crazy and the marauder horsemen and hounds do what they do. Or if i have the hellcannon spawn option the hellcannon shoots as much stuff as possible and the spawn protects a flank.

What do you think? Competitive or daft?

blackjack
28-10-2008, 14:09
I think frenzy is a really bad idea. I view it as a net liability not even worth 0 pts. A good general will lead your frenzy units around by the nose. Forcing failed charges, rushing them off the board or forcing them to charge tarpits.

Weemo
28-10-2008, 14:18
i beg to differ

immune to psych means i am not runing away, plus one attack is lethal and the downsides are minimal

with three large units if one get baited it wont matter too much, and even then because i declare charges first i can make them run with a chariot or giant ect.

yes most armies have some fast cav/skirmishers/flyers but they dont have enough to lead me around.

even then i am well aware of it and i can deploy and move to counter it

(block line of sight, charge with other units, wheel out of line of sight ect)

Von Wibble
28-10-2008, 14:44
I don't play Chaos but I face them a lot. That chosen unit is overkill, and you have 3 rare choices, despite only being allowed 2. I would do the folowing.

Lose the hellcannon. Khorne cares not for cowardly shooting. Put an extra spawn in its place. With their effective 360 degree charge arc they are perfect for helping prevent baiting. Roughly 180 pts gained.

Cut the chosen to 11 models. With screening troops, and a lord leading them they can still easily beat foes in combat, but don't net 1000vps if killed. Helm is a risk imo - I think favour of the gods is a better investment. About 180 pts saved.

Add in another unit of 12 khornate warriors (should be doable with the points left over). War banner can help in combat or rapturous standard (of course a suitable name change such as standard of endless carnage would be a good idea!) Costs about 250pts?

That still leaves 110pts. With a little fiddling of points that can be either another unit of horsemen and hounds, or a small unit of chaos ogres.

Weemo
28-10-2008, 15:05
its not three rare, giant OR hellcannon and spawn, khorne only hates magic whoever said he hated shooting?

i dunno, they are expensive so they will be targeted, all i need is the front rank to get into combat and i'm fine

Mullitron
28-10-2008, 15:08
I do think putting your lord with the chosen is a bit of all eggs in one basket siutation. Ive only glanced at the new book but i get the impression their lords like in the past are pretty amazing but expensive. Do the chosen really need a lord helping them out? Yes they will kill pretty much any unit they touch but theres a limit of how much you can kill with a single infantry unit thats frenzied. I would suggest splitting the two up, that way your opponent has to try and delay/redirect two units not just one. Your lord will make whatever unit he joins very powerful and the chosen are pretty much stronger than most infantry so should also do well by themselves. If something goes wrong for you or right for your opponent with that one unit it can loose you the whole game. What would you do if you went against another chaos player and on the first turn he managed to cast Infernal Gateway on your unit and rolled an 11 or 12. Ok this is an extreme example and very rare but its a dramatic example to get my point across. Like the items for your lord very khorne : )

mav1971
28-10-2008, 15:22
I think it sounds interesting. You should try it. What's the worst that could happen? You lose a game or two. The best way to see what works and what doesn't is to try it. I've made quite a few lists in my years of gaming I didn't think stood a chance of winning. Some of them suprised me.

Kalec
28-10-2008, 21:57
Warshrine, hellcannon and one spawn is 3 rares, the giant and the shrine isn't.

Your army has two kinds of units: frenzied infantry and cheap, mobile screens. The screens can be taken out with a little shooting or a magic missile that you can't afford to scroll. Your opponent then has the very easy task of baiting the marauder blocks, crushing them, and leading your huge chosen unit into some woods with a unit of dire wolves or warhounds.

Weemo
28-10-2008, 23:43
oh yeah forgot about that, in any case this army was pure theory to see if it would sink or swim, the chosen are nails but its not as easy to do all that as you think kalec, i mean not many armies have decent fast cav, shooting and magic enough to do all the things you say.

very easy task? you say it as if i would be completely ignorant to baiters, i mean setting up a bait that works well is trickier than you think especially with three units.

very few armies consistantly take three units of fast cav or more so unless my opponent is list tayloring i cant see how you'd be able to bait and crush the marauders. sure their squishy but theres 36 of them and they hit pretty well (that along with ld9 immune to psch theire not going anywhere) also with two survivable and hitty chariot and the like that will charge baiters asap with a longer or equal charge range then the fast cav will be forced to take the charge or flee leaving my khorne units to do what they like.

admittedly a unit of 20 chosen is overkill, i reckon i can get away with changing them to warriors and getting some more stuff like an exalted or some ogres.

anyway i might edit it if i can be bothered but as i said i wanted some other opinions.

Kalec
28-10-2008, 23:52
It doesn't take decent fast cav to pull away a unit of marauders though. Your opponent can afford to use less then idea bait against you, because all you really have to fight with is your 3 infantry blocks.

And he doesn't need to pull away all your blocks, one will do. He can just walk away from your other two blocks for quite a while, crush one marauder block, and take his minor or solid victory. You are unlikely to ever get massacred, but you will rarely win.

Kardon
29-10-2008, 00:13
Played a few games with "all" khornate army.. I suggest dividing the chosens into 2x10 and taking knights! I usually run with warriors(not chosen) in 2(3)x10 wich worked alot better then a block off 20. The knights realy did their job in my games managing to actually do more or less all the killing, taking out a flank in turn 2 and then proceeded into wreakin havoc in the center. U need more speed in the list unless ur playing against a non shooty dwarf army, ur gonna get baited around quite alot with only 2xhounds and all khornate foot army(atleast from my experience) im mostly gonna run with marauder horsemen,knights and DO/trolls and chariotx2 to add massive speed to the army. having a block of marauders and 2x10 warriors fiddled in the middle(all khorne!) and as many dogs as my point limit allows.. Altho I hate to say this but a lvl 4 sorc+ a lvl2 does quite alot of havoc and in most cases this will be a better choice for lord/hero... ive tryed both, and only time im gonna use a khornate lord with some messy **** is either in a chariot/jugger or dragon/manticore 4"move is just to slow for such an expensive moddel.. And his unit can and in most cases will be easely bated if they got 1-2 things popping down your dogs/marauder horsemenn the first rounds(ofc depending on who ur playing against, hopefully u play against ppl that actually does this couse if not their not worth playing against unless it is to boost ur own ego) and all my matches where against DE, where off the first when i had them in blocks of 16/20 i lost horribly due to beeing baited around by Draiders and shades. second and third ended draw tnx to the knights getting points back(ye my khornate lord fell to an assasin/KB thing :( ( my own fault tho, not happening again) with the lvl4 sorc and lvl 2 sorc(Tz and sla) it went quite good, untill the hydra suddenly turned into a rampage and took out all my cc foot troops in almost one go(bad dice rolling do realy happen in the worst moments) So out of my experience; Knights+ everything else that can move fast and no larger blocks then 10( exept for marauders tho) 10warrs can realy dish out loads of dmg and take alot of dmg back.. and 190? ish point in ur chosen just to get 2 more rank bonus and maaaybe outnumbering CR aint worth it.... Atleast out of my experience

orks2134
29-10-2008, 02:08
Played ... experience

Holy crap. That's one big run-on sentence with almost no punctuation and lots of other stuff. Absolutely unreadable!

Zoat
29-10-2008, 07:34
How would Helm of Many Eyes work with frenzy?

If the unit gets stupid it is a bad idea, if not it is brilliant! :)

Lord Khabal
29-10-2008, 09:14
It would be stupid and frenzied... If the Unit is stupid cannot charge or move except for the compulsory movement.

Why give the mark of khorne to knights? use banner of rage! And put the khorne lord on juggy... I also only use collar of khorne unless my character has mark of tzeentch (fluffy!)
Personally I dont like infantry with frenzy because they are too susceptible to get flanked due to low movement. If youre going all khorne, why not all cavalry?

Von Wibble
29-10-2008, 13:36
its not three rare, giant OR hellcannon and spawn, khorne only hates magic whoever said he hated shooting?

i dunno, they are expensive so they will be targeted, all i need is the front rank to get into combat and i'm fine

The fact that there used to be a magic banner in 5th edition available to khorne armies that targetted missile troops because Khorne disliked them was a clue...Imo the spirit of a khorne army is hth and more hth. Makes for a 1 dimensional army but if that's what you want...

Also I regularly take 3+ units of baiting troops, without tailoring my list. I play dark elves (2 x harpies minimum, 2 x dark riders), high elves (lots of eagles, I never use RBT), empire (2 x pistoliers, archers, free company), and tomb kings (yes light horsemen do have a use, as do swarms).

Lizardmen, wood elves, brets, woc, vampires, beasts and skaven can all easily field armies with at least 3 baiting units, and imo to be optimal should. That just leaves dwarfs (who only have gyrocopter) and daemons (just furies, but lots of other tricks instead) who haven't got so much.

In short an infantry based army with vulnerable cavalry screen won't work unless it is split up more as I earlier suggested, and has some spawn to help with baiters, and get more screeneres to compensate for lack of attrition. Since a spawn doesn't declare a proper charge you can't flee so baiting is out with these - they will achieve far more than a hellcannon, and the warshrine is just overkill...

The Red Scourge
29-10-2008, 14:22
An 850 point unit subject to stupidity and frenzy and with a 4" move???

And a 300 point character locked in the unit??? Why not put him on a jugger in a unit of warhounds and send him off to wreak havoc – I really doubt those chosen need his support.

I wouldn't count on this list to win you anything.

Discord
29-10-2008, 14:41
The fact that there used to be a magic banner in 5th edition available to khorne armies that targetted missile troops because Khorne disliked them was a clue...Imo the spirit of a khorne army is hth and more hth. Makes for a 1 dimensional army but if that's what you want...

And in third edition Khorne was the only god with access to mortars, bazookas and technological weapons (40k guns, that is). But enough about old editions. The current one says Khorne is the god of warriors, not wizards and he appreciates slaughter and might of arms, who doesn't have anything against magical weapons that increase the carnage (quite the opposite, in fact). Nothing about a dislike towards shooting, missile troops or warmachines. The hellcannon is a rampaging daemon engine with a thing for bloodletting. I'd say the hellcannon is more appropriate for khornate themed armies than any other ones.

Oh, and lose the stupid hat. You don't want that unit stuck moving 2" forward. I'd have max 12 chosen in it due to their high cost, then boost numbers with more marauders. But if you like it, try it. Just lose the hat. ;)