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__ALEX__
28-10-2008, 19:12
Hi guys,

I'd better preface this by saying I haven't played WFB since 5th edition, but I've always loved the greenskins and have a fair amount of orcs and goblins of all varieties.

I want to do a night goblin army led by Skarsnik (my favourite special character) or just a regular night goblin warboss but everything I've read about the 7th edition O&G is that pretty much anything except Orc Boyz and Wolf Riders suck and all-goblin armies just aren't playable.

I don't want to win any tournaments with the Night Gobboz as I'll be painting them just for the theme, but if I'm just gonna get soundly trounced every game then it just won't be much fun, and I'll use them as part of a mixed army.

So, anyone using a (moderately) succesful NG army in 7th edition?

For that matter, I keep getting put off by playing WFB again because people complain about broken/overpowered army lists or totally nerfed/underpowered army lists.. is this really so prevalant or is it just a case of people liking to complain? If it's true then it sucks since while I don't go all out to win when I play, I want to give my opponent a decent game..

Avian
28-10-2008, 19:15
I have played lots of themed O&G lists (themed lists are just about all I run), and the Night Goblin army is the only theme I have given up on. The gobbos run away, the shamans blow up and the squigs are just too squishy on your own.

A mixed Goblin list is much more effective - adding in a common Goblin Warboss, some fast cavalry and war machines does wonders.

__ALEX__
28-10-2008, 19:19
Thanks Avian, I appreciate your input since I've read your review of the 7th edition OG book.

So I should use an all-NG army just for fun but a mixed goblin army has some playability?

Or maybe I could just convert a load of Night Goblins into Wolf Riders/Common Goblin units because I love the NG models :)

So WFB in general isn't broken then?

Avian
28-10-2008, 19:29
I think a mixed goblin army is quite a lot of fun to play with, while a Night Goblin army quite a bit less so. If you want to convert up fast cavalry night goblins and night goblin war machine crew then I think that is a nice idea and if you do a quick search you will probably find pics of conversions other people have made. :)

I would not say that FB in general is broken, though the quality of GW's rules writers is rather more variable than I am really comfortable with.

__ALEX__
28-10-2008, 20:02
cool, I'll have a look.

re: the rules, it's just that reading this forum and other things on the web, not many people have good things to say about the current edition of warhammer and everyone's complaining about broken lists and number crunching and in general, things that keep discouraging me from wanting to do anything other than paint and model the armies and not bother playin..

Jolon
28-10-2008, 20:27
The game is nowhere near as unbalanced as wild internet claims would lead the unwary to believe. Sure, daemons are dubiously balanced, but that is one army, and individual lists are as hard as you want them to be.

It is definetely a game where friends can meet up and play balanced lists from all armies and have a good time. That it is also a game where tournaments are dominated by an elite few lists is largely irrelevent to the casual gamer, which is most of us.

Ammanas
28-10-2008, 20:33
Daemons are not unbalanced - they merely have units which are very good at one thing, which means if you can get them to do that one thing you are in the money.
The fact remains though that GW can't write unambiguous rules to save themselves!!!

Goblins alone is a hilarious list because you will spend much of your time watching your army run away! On their own goblins simply do not have the hitting power you need above 1000 points... I've seen a goblin horde simply bounce off dwarfs and keep bouncing off them until eventually the goblins run away and the goes off with them.

O&G, way to go!

Avian
28-10-2008, 20:37
Everything is relative. Playing against Daemons in 5th edition, for example, was considerably more of an uphill struggle than it currently is ("Oh, two Khornate Daemon Princes with ten attacks each just swooped in and killed my entire army. What fun..."*).
Same with Vampire Counts, really. Things are, generally speaking, far better nowadays than before, though they have been giving some inexperienced writers more responsibility than they really have been able to handle.


* actual experience :(

Storak
28-10-2008, 22:00
7th edition rules are very stable (as was 6th). gameplay is definitely more tactical and stable than 40k or many other games will ever be. i am convinced that WFB is a good game, even though i have serious prblems with some of the new army books.

a pure night goblins list will show you the major problems with the current O&G book immediately:

* Ld5 will see your units running away constantly, against anything that causes fear/terror. (for goblins, that is basically all enemies, because of the elves rule..)

* fanatics have been weakened, while cav got stronger. even IF they hit a unit of cav, they struggle to get their points back. this is insane.

* Skarsnik will either delay your opponents artillery (very good) or die to its shooting (the end of your army. gobbos might suffer MORE from the loss of their general, than undead do..)

if you are playing in a relaxed group, use night goblin crew on the required boltthrowers, "tunnel" spider riders and model some bosses with Black orc stats.

if your main opponent wants to play a competitive daemon list, pure night goblins might not be a great idea.

mattschuur
29-10-2008, 05:40
Well, i run an all Common Goblin list and it is loads of fun. Believe it or not, common goblins with Shields, hand weapons, and lt. armor can stand up to other light infantry, especially with a 50 point character helping them out. plus you can get 35 of the little guys for the same points of a 20 strong unit of Dark Elf spearmen.

also, a buddy of mine has a skarsnick led all night goblin force, really cool because Wolf riders are old NG models on albino wolves. We played a game, Goblin on Goblin and even with a special character and fanatics i won. Common Goblins simply have better armor and better leadership.

Really, no matter how you decide to proceed, you have to take a Common goblin Warboss, even if you dress him up in a robe, that increased LD is important. Also, Goblin shamans are so very cheap and the little waagh is a pretty solid lore, imo.

matt schuur

Braad
29-10-2008, 07:50
If you get spider riders for NG, paint them in a scheme like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Wolf_spider_tunnel.jpg
No-one should be allowed to complain then :)

I played all NG a few times, and got mixed results. I think the best one actually was one where I fielded 0 fanatics, and just swamped a bretonnia player in hordes of little greenskins. Was quite nice. I can't remember how I actually managed to survive those charges though...

Okay, a few fanatics can be nice, but don't overdo it. Just a couple here, a few there, maybe even units without.
But a bit about psychology... If you go somewhere, make sure you bring 3 for each unit. Just to show the opponent that they just might be in there...

__ALEX__
29-10-2008, 10:02
thanks guys, you have restored a bit of my faith in Warhammer, the game which gave me many hours of pleasure and hopefully will do so again. to listen to some people (on this forum as well as other places) it's a terrible, unbalanced system with uber lists that it's not worth playing against.. thankfully that's not the case (most of the time) :)

W0lf
29-10-2008, 10:16
Night gobblins are fine as an army.

Just ALWAYS take netters and i wouldnt take more then 2 fanatics per unit.

Infact take snarsnik and 2 rock lobbers and its already fairly competitive.

__ALEX__
29-10-2008, 11:17
Infact take snarsnik and 2 rock lobbers and its already fairly competitive.

that means playing at 2k or more though right?

as far as I understand the rules Skarsnik is a Lord and I can't take a Lord at any less than 2k points

Braad
29-10-2008, 15:17
Indeed. But under 2K, its still okay.

If you wish to go completely NG, then puts a few units of squigs between the night gobbo's. Since they are ItP, you are less likely to see a whole lot of units flee at the same time. And they are fairly cheap.
Also, try to keep the night gobbo's themselves cheap, by not making them too big and putting in too many fanatics. That way you get to field more units, and it won't matter too much if 1 runs.

Storak
29-10-2008, 15:24
Night gobblins are fine as an army.

Just ALWAYS take netters and i wouldnt take more then 2 fanatics per unit.

Infact take snarsnik and 2 rock lobbers and its already fairly competitive.

rock lobbers aren t night goblins and aren t that great either.

when playing a "NG army" (with additions), you will need as many bolts as you can get, to keep terror away from your Ld 5 (FIVE!) units.

and you will want some squigs as well (apart from the basic NG infantry, they are the only NG units in the lists..). this leaves exactly ZERO room for any lobbers...

w3rm
29-10-2008, 19:14
I like playing a pure night goblin force. It is small to be sure but fun none the less. If your playing a relaxed group use night goblins as crew for spear chukkas, make a "squig" chariot using wolf rules or the likes. Not ass fluffy sure but youl win more. Anywho i luve Snarsnik. Common gobbos will be better though. Best of luck.

FurryMiguell
30-10-2008, 01:24
Night goblins are the most playable greenskins. Period.

Vestigialante
31-10-2008, 14:56
I'm also considering Night Gobbos as a way of getting into fantasy (love the look, and the fluff).

Would a massed fanatic/squig-heavy army be functional? Small, cheap night goblin units as fanatic-delivery devices, and a huge throng of squigs bouncing all over the place seems like a hilariously unpredictable list, and has massive destruction potential for both sides.

I come from 40k, so quite a bit of what fantasy is about is still a bit hazy to me, but looking over the armybook, is it possible to get a magic banner on anything other than a big boss standard bearer? Is the poisoned attacks banner worthwhile?

Also, I'm thinking about a doom diver catapult, modded into a squig-chucker. Are these decently effective for rare choices?

FurryMiguell
31-10-2008, 15:04
doom divers are great fun. I love the warmachine. not the best one, but the most fun one!

fanatics are also great fun, and the main reason IMO to play night goblins. Never go without them, and have one in every unit:p

squigs are also fun, go for it!

As for this being your first army, you couldnt have made a better choise! (I just hope your not one of them win at all cost guys...)

I would greenstuff some nightgoblin robes for the warmachine crew though, just to stick with the theme.

ajay29
31-10-2008, 15:23
My first ever WHFB army was night gobbos; I set out to do exactly what you want to - a completely NG force.

After my first few games I realised I needed something more, and it was a downhill slope from there; spear chukkas, stone throwers, giants, wolf riders, spider riders....

NG = fun
Mixed Gobbo = fun and competative

I eventually sold my soul to the green devil and got some black orcs and boar chariots....

g0ddy
31-10-2008, 15:38
Skarsnik and Gobbla end of story.

~ zilla

Vestigialante
31-10-2008, 16:42
doom divers are great fun. I love the warmachine. not the best one, but the most fun one!

fanatics are also great fun, and the main reason IMO to play night goblins. Never go without them, and have one in every unit:p

squigs are also fun, go for it!

As for this being your first army, you couldnt have made a better choise! (I just hope your not one of them win at all cost guys...)

I would greenstuff some nightgoblin robes for the warmachine crew though, just to stick with the theme.

Haha, yeah, I'm far from WAAC. I came from 40k, and on of my main forces was Kroot Mercenaries, which is just about of the technically weakest armies in the game. It was their fluff that kept me going with them, and finding ways to use what little they had to fullest effect.

As for the gobbos, is there a certain point where you can have too many fanatics? I was thinking about 18 in a list, along with a heaping helping of squigs. Would archers and shamans form a decent ranged component to compliment that?

mattschuur
02-11-2008, 15:15
18:eek:, thats way to many. Remember, the little guys can come backwards. I've seen my buddy's Fanatics slip back into his own lines and decimate units or take out chariots. 2 per unit is a solid choice as with decent rolling you can hamstring a charging unit or at least stop a charge. But if you get too many out there it can damage and limit your army as well.

Although one of the funniest games i've seen was when 15 fanatics went berserk and decimated both sides, killing more points than the two opposing armies. That and a Skaven player decimating one of his own units to kill the chaos knights in combat with them using ratling guns.

matt schuur

FurryMiguell
02-11-2008, 17:36
i think 18 sounds fun:p. I think 1 or 2 in each unit is great. remember though, its better to spread them out, than keep them all in a few units. if the unit (with very, very poor ld) decide to flee, you dont lose as many of your points. And with such cheap units, its not that big a deal if one of your fanatics should come back to haunt you. after all, thats what were not paying for (meaning they are cheap...:p)

I always use shamans ( I love the magic in warhammer, and never play an army without (one of the reasons I hate dwarfs;))). They have a rather large failure-factor, but they are great fun, has some fun magic, and if you are an as good sport as you seem like, I dont think you would have anything but fun playing with them.

when it comes to archers, they are no good at all. they are useless in most roles, and I never use them (I'd rather do some warmachines. those are great fun with gobbos). They have 16" range (nothing), poor bs, and will therfore be ranged by almost any other missile unit, and be outgunned, and will not likely hit anything at all.

Have fun though, you made the right choise:D

Dexter099
03-11-2008, 00:22
I got my but handed to me by an all goblin army. It had snarsnik and gobla, and contained tons of spear gobbos and archer gobbos, with about 20 fanatics. My warriors just got slaughtered. I couldn't move cause I would get hit by a fanatic if I moved, and get creamed if I didn't. Also, I had to dispel the prodder or die. I failed to twice, and about 500 of my VPs were gone.

It's feasible, just watch out for enemy flyers dropping in the center of your army and unleashing all of your fanatics in your own lines. War machines and wolf riders will help, as Avian says.

Kauzu
03-11-2008, 02:18
I'm just starting and was thinking about going greenskins as a first army. Is it a bad choice for a new player?

And to stay on topic can't you release fanatics any direction you desire? You could at least mitigate the damage from having to release fanatics early.

Vestigialante
03-11-2008, 06:06
With point-expense in mind, are nets a worthy pick-up for night goblins? Reducing the enemy's strength for more survivability, in conjunction with shear numbers and huge static CR seems like it would make them more than worthwhile.

But for the price I could just get 11 more night goblins for each application of nets.

In the long run, which would be better?

FurryMiguell
03-11-2008, 18:28
I would never use nets. They are expencive, and your goblins are gona die anyway, why bother:p

Kauzu: Yes, dear god, do play greenskins! they are without doubt the way to go!

Urgat
04-11-2008, 07:22
If you get spider riders for NG, paint them in a scheme like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Wolf_spider_tunnel.jpg
No-one should be allowed to complain then :)

hargh, where is the "nasty, big, horribular eyes" warning? :p