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Von Wibble
29-10-2008, 19:20
My opponent will be using WOC. I expect to face a majority of models with at least M8 and either a decked out tzeentch sorceror lord or a manticore/dragon rider. Therefore a minority of my composition is aimed at this - however I am also fielding a force that should stand up to an infantry assault also.

L4 Supreme Sorceress. Sacrificial Dagger, Pendant of Khaeleth, Power Stone 340pts

L2 Sorceress. Tome of Furion, Dispel Scroll. 175pts

Death Hag, with army standard. Has Banner of Hag Graef, Rune of Khaine. 175pts.

Master, rides Dark Pegasus. Has lance, shield, heavy armour, cloak, Ring of Hotek. 169pts.

14 crossbowmen, full command, shields. 174pts

L2 goes here. With the full command, hill bonus and fair S+S this unit won't be attacked by marauder horsemen or hounds but will need more shifting.

6 Cold One Knights, Banner of Slaughter. 211pts.

25 Warriors, shields, full command, War Banner. 215pts

L4 goes here. With the Pendant to protect her from nasty chaos enemies in challenges, and a hefty supply of sacrifices this unit isn't quite the easy target it may appear to be on first glance. It will need care in its use however.

5 Dark Riders, musician. 92pts

2 x 5 Harpies. 2 x 55pts

2 x War Hydra. 2 x 175pts.

17 Executioners, champion, musician. 222pts

Army standard goes here. With ASF and good strength killing blow attacks this unit has a chance against Knights.

14 Black Guard, full command, Crimson Death, Banner of Murder. 267pts

With the ASF banner their attacks just don't do enough to those 2+ saves so this unit is a lame duck against cavalry. That said, it still won't be an easy target thanks to stubborn and the support afforded by COK, Hydras, or Executioners.

A potential change I could make is to drop the pegasus and a hydra and have a cauldron and some more dark riders instead. With the cauldron the executioners become a lot more useful against knights, and the dark riders pack surprising punch on charge in support.

Thoughts?

riven5
30-10-2008, 01:58
Very cool! I really like the list, it's definitely something that I would fear facing with a WoC army.

Some thoughts: I adore the CoB, but it's hard to fit into a list like this. Really you have to ask yourself; will I really be gaining as much as I'm losing?

In this case you're not just losing a hydra, you're also losing your Death Hag BSB w/the ASF Banner. That ASF Banner, when paired with the Executioners, makes for some excellent protection against the WoCs rather well-known (and rightly feared) 1+ armor save. I'm just not sure the CoB is going to bring enough to the table to make it worthwhile. Perhaps if you fielded more Khainite units to fully benefit from the stubbornness, or perhaps if you were willing to ditch the Master to field another Death Hag.

The L4 doesn't necessarily need the Pendant btw, your enemies need only throw low-strength attacks at her to get rid of her. Realistically you might want to ditch the Pendant in favor of the best type of protection; movement. Throw her on a Dark Steed. She can still stabby-stabby her Warriors for extra PD (as far as I know, I don't have the book on me atm!) and she can always leave the unit when a charge might go off against the warriors.

I like the Master as a mobile magic-defense. I can't help but think you could drop another dispel scroll on him. Two is better than one, after all. Considering the horrifying spells the WoC has access too, you probably want two. Failing that, you could do worse than an enchanted shield.

Oh, and the Death Hag really should have the Manbane. After all, many WoC baddies are T4+, and Manbane would give her S5 in such a situation. It's your call of course, it's another 25 points and you'll lose poisoned attacks. Still, definitely worth your consideration.

The CoKs could use a champ. Not only does he give you an additional attack, but he gives you 25 points to play with. You could always ditch your Master in favor of giving the Ring of Hotek to this champ...but as I said, I enjoy the Master the way he is. Oh, and the CoK champ can issue challenges, which WoC characters MUST accept. Great for forcing those pesky WoC sorcs into a bad situation.

I realize I've said a lot, and most of it would require points you may not have to spare. But if you hear anything, hear this: When the battle is over, write up a batrep and post it here. Should be awesome.

Von Wibble
30-10-2008, 11:07
I think you misunderstood - I mean the pegasus master is removed for the COB, not the death hag. The COK wuold then get ring of hotek instead. The whole point of the cauldron would be to 1) make the executioners stubborn, 2) Give the executioners/ COK/ Black guard +1A, or Black guard KB, or of course the 5+ ward. Withthe +1 attack a black guard champion is as scary as some lord choices! I am still worried about the executioners potential otherwise - with just 6 attacks hitting on 4s (albeit with hatred) there aren't enough blows landing for KB to be such a factor.

The Pendant is in because I'm scared of the miscast table - especially with the black tongue + infernal puppet combo. I don't know of any low S attacks Chaos can wield in numbers - best they can do is khornate marauder horsemen, who would usually get strength boosting items. I never field mounted characters in foot units as it looks wrong, so the dark steed is out. That said - a point for anyone who would use such a defense is that 25 warriors would be unnecessary - a smaller unit would be better to save points.

I didn't put manbane on the death hag because it does nothing to improve her prowess vs T3 troops, and the executioners are there for the rest. However I think I'm changing my mind on that one. The trick is finding the points of course...

I am going to change the list - apologies for doble post but it will look better than all in 1 go.

Von Wibble
30-10-2008, 11:12
My opponent will be using WOC. I expect to face a majority of models with at least M8 and either a decked out tzeentch sorceror lord or a manticore/dragon rider. Therefore a minority of my composition is aimed at this - however I am also fielding a force that should stand up to an infantry assault also.

L4 Supreme Sorceress. Sacrificial Dagger, Pendant of Khaeleth, Dispel Scroll 345pts

L2 Sorceress. Tome of Furion, Dispel Scroll. 175pts

Death Hag, with army standard. Has Banner of Hag Graef, Rune of Khaine, Manbane 200pts.

Death Hag, Cauldron. 200pts

14 crossbowmen, full command, shields. 174pts

L2 goes here. With the full command, hill bonus and fair S+S this unit won't be attacked by marauder horsemen or hounds but will need more shifting.

6 Cold One Knights, Banner of Cold Blood, Dread Knight with Ring of Hotek. 232pts.

25 Warriors, shields, full command, War Banner. 215pts

L4 goes here. With the Pendant to protect her from nasty chaos enemies in challenges, and a hefty supply of sacrifices this unit isn't quite the easy target it may appear to be on first glance. It will need care in its use however.

2 x 5 Dark Riders, musician. 92pts

2 x 5 Harpies. 2 x 55pts

War Hydra. 175pts.

17 Executioners, champion, musician. 222pts

Army standard goes here. With ASF and good strength killing blow attacks this unit has a chance against Knights.

14 Black Guard, full command, Crimson Death, Banner of Murder. 267pts

With the ASF banner their attacks just don't do enough to those 2+ saves so this unit is a lame duck against cavalry. That said, it still won't be an easy target thanks to stubborn and the support afforded by COK, Hydras, or Executioners.



Edited list - in short I have dropped the Pegasus Master and War Hydra, and added ring of hotek to COK, Cauldron of Blood, another Dark Rider unit, Manbane on BSB. Item swaps - Banner of Slaughter becomes Cold Blood (more reliability in manoeuvring Ring of Hotek!), Power Stone becomes Dispel Scroll.

riven5
30-10-2008, 15:17
Very nice list man. Hope to see the batrep when all is said and done.

alex17
30-10-2008, 21:51
GATE all the big units and your in trouble, but if it isn't tzeentch then this list should own

Von Wibble
31-10-2008, 11:41
Good luck Gating a unit without rolling a double to cast, bearing in mind you need at least 4 dice to have a chance of casting ;) On average treason does more damage - I hated the old green fire with my high elf swordmasters and white lions.

I am also afraid of Pandemonium. That one will be dispelled with a vengeance as combined with diabolical terror bomb it could make my high sorceress just run off the table, not to mention the effect on my casting. A tzeentch army will cause problems. But I'm fairly focused on magic defense already and without taking another sorceress or loading up on nullstone talismans can't see what to do there.

Gimp
31-10-2008, 13:17
GATE all the big units and your in trouble, but if it isn't tzeentch then this list should own

Dude what is up with you and GATE?

Been checking out the lists and all your comments are on Gate? Yes its a good spell but a spell no the less. Which means it can fail to cast or even just be dispelled?