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General Squeek Squeek
31-10-2008, 02:50
Skaven:

4X30 Clanrats
4x21 slaves
4x5 nightrunners
1x35 giant rats
2x5 gutter runners- poison weapons
24 plague monkes
6 plague bearers
BSB- storm banner
warlord-GW, HA, warpstone amulet
2 warlock engineers- full gear

WoC-

20 warrior- hw, shield, chaos armor
1 chariot
20 maruaders- flails
5 knights
5 mauraders mounted- flails
2 lvl2 sorcerers
1 sorcerer on dragon w/ 2 heads

Set up.

I set my skaven across the battlefields with clanrats and slaves in the middle surrounded by my general

He sets his warriors in the building w/ the two sorcerers. the knights are on the right of the building the mounted mauraders are on the left. His foot mauraders and chariot on the far flank, and finally the dragon behind the building.

turn1

I go first. I realize with the way building combats work I have nothing that can possibly win against the chaos warriors w/ the exception of the plague censor bearers. I send 2 blocks of clanrats and 1 unit of slave and after his flanking chariot and mauraders (this ends up being the only points I gain As I wipe both these units out around turn 2-4). My magic phase fizzles as I get 2 miscasts.

I activate the storm banner to keep his dragon from flying behind my lines. His magic devestates my censor bears leaving 0 left. He then charges some slaves with his chaos knights which fail their fear test and are promptly destroyed in the ensuing combat.

turn 2

I charge my BSB's clanrat unit into the knights hoping to get them stuck while I work my way around them. My giant rats charge his mounted mauraders.
My magic goes off killing 8 clanrats as I tried to take out some of the knights and killing 0 knights in return. My giant rats whiff their attacks and are killed and run down by his mauraders. The knights and clanrats hold with equal combat res.

Storm banner stops working. His dragon flies behind my generals unit. The two breath weapons kill 20 clanrats. I fail my panic and run into his mounted mauraders. His infernal gate spell goes off removing the plague monks from the game. His mounted mauraders have just enough LOS to see my BSB flank and charge it. The unit is utterly destroyed and run down. Both the ratling guns fail their panic checks and run away.

Turn 3.

With almost no blocks left that can damage him I concede game as the ratling guns run off the board.


What really killed me this game was being unable to touch his warriors unit. With building combat relying on kills only I had nothing to compete with his T4 2+ save warriors. This meant that his spell casters were safe to cast away the whole game.

Meanwhile his dragons breath weapons tore through my ranks and without a WLC I didn't really stand a chance against it.

The Red Scourge
31-10-2008, 09:05
Not a fair battle at all.

Chaos dragon with double breath weapon is bound to wreak havoc on a horde. The outcome of the battle was decided, when the armies were built.

Sad but this is a weakness of the game. Some builds just doesn't go well for a good (i.e. challenging) game.

punkoteloco
31-10-2008, 12:12
Well, looking at your army, you lack one thing that can hurt Chaos a lot... shooting. You got 4 ratlingguns right?? Well, thats too close for chaos. You need 10 jezzails, they will give you some advantage on distance and can hurt the dragon too. You need hitting power, wich your plague censers will give you, but 6 is not enough. 10 is the number. He spent a lot of points in his dragon, so killing him, is going to give you a lot of points. Remember, skaven donīt hit hard in CC, try to wipe his units a bit, fight on your own terms. 2 Engineers is like having half magic,it will take you away some hitting power ( maybe you can field a Plague priest ) but it wont give you the advantage on magic. Try changing your army a little bit so you can wipe down some units before getting into combat. Oh, and keep the Warlord, its good, specially for his leadership

Malorian
31-10-2008, 13:34
The new chaos dragon can shoot two breath weapons?!?!? Good god!

Well that certainly didn't go well. I wouldn't have cared about the warriors in the building. If he wanted to hide his best warriors then let him and kill everything else.

Short report, but I sure learned something from it.

General Squeek Squeek
31-10-2008, 13:50
unfortunately the biggest problem with my list is the lack of shooting. My opponents list was tailored against my army, but I've been practicing tourney list so I wanted the list as hard as he could make it.

I only ran 2 ratling guns in this list. The main reason is I like my army being a true horde and dislike having to rely on shooting and magic to win the game (i see them as great support). Unfortunately static combat res isn't what it used to be hopefully when skaven get updated this will change again *crosses fingers*.

I think my biggest mistake was setting off the storm banner so early. Had I waited I could have traped his dragon with the sorceror on the ground and got a charge on it.

Almost all his points were tied up in his warrior unit with the 2 sorcerors and the dragon. Once my banner stopped working his dragon was free to pelt my flanks with the breath weapon, and his warrior unit was untouchable with my list. Overall it was a fun game even as I got wiped out.

Still its frustrating that a horde army can't compete with tournament lists from these newer books (I underline tournament list b/c I think all the armies are as well balanced as they can be so long as people don't go uber cheesy).

Malorian
31-10-2008, 13:57
He tailored his list to beat you? Well that's stupid... I hope this isn't a 'friend' of yours that you are forced to play aginast often...

Horde still works fine in most cases, but it just doesn't work against these super close combat armies. All those attacks quickly beat your static res and your only chance is to try and set up flank charges. Unfortunately with a dragon flying around you don't have the time to set these up.

Feefait
31-10-2008, 20:16
Well it is very easy for us after a battle report, seeing what was brought and how it was used for us to say "you should have brought a,b and ax and done such and such with it." NOt a big fan of that. of COURSE you could have done something different, bt it is cool to see an alternate list. ONe thing I have to say, and I see this from a lot of skaven players is this "horde" mentalitly. That is to say that taking jezzails, artillery and what not somehow negates the horde apsect. NOt so, in my opinion. Every skaven is part of the horde. And the globadiers, jezzails, warlocks, etc. are the elite of the horde. I really don't see any skaven horde that does not have these included being brave enough to pop it;s head above ground and pillage and ravage. All the toys skaven have are just another aspect of the overall swarm and should be able to find their place.
Now for me, I can understand that you wnated a general list, but man if I were oyu I would have killed for some warpfire throwers and PWg's.

By the way, I ***** hate buildings. They are weak and hiding a unit in there is cheesy. The builindg rules in Warhammer have always been weak and way to easy to exploit.

Sorry you didn't win, but gratz on posting a stomping. Some people wouldn't do that... (see above poster... lol j/k!)

Kalec
01-11-2008, 03:02
What are you talking about Mal? Chaos dragons have had two breath weapons for quite a while.

Anyway, this battle clearly demonstrates your weakness to big monsters, especially dragons. While a chaos dragon is the worst for you do to dual breath, any lord on a monstrous mount would have given you trouble as well once the storm banner turned off.

Dexter099
02-11-2008, 23:05
What Mal is talking about is that the breath weapons can now both be fired in the same turn and are much more powerful. Not only is there the S4 one, but there is a S2 with -3 armor save one that can be fired as well, to totally destroy troops.

Think about this:

A chaos dragon with a chaos lord with gear and everything. For a daemonic gift give the chaos lord the slime breath. That'll be placing 3 templates out in 1 turn, which can destroy one unit in one go. Then, you can charge and whatnot.

Feefait
03-11-2008, 00:36
If you can lay down 3 templates on a unit in one turn, why bother chaging anything? Just lay em out. I would love o play WoC but as my other 2 armies, Lizards and skaven are on the horizon and my WE are stalling out I just cannot do it. I have such high hopes for the new books though.
Curious how this skaven list fares for you normally. I know I end to run the same list more often then not, is this the same?

Mireadur
04-11-2008, 17:45
Theres something i dont understand.. He tailored the list for including the dragon? or did he also know you werent magic heavy?

Urgat
10-11-2008, 10:29
He tailored his list to beat you? Well that's stupid... I hope this isn't a 'friend' of yours that you are forced to play aginast often...

Didn't he ask for his friend to tailor his list to practice?

w3rm
14-11-2008, 23:49
Nice try. But ALWAYS take a wlc over 2k, unless your taking two censer units. They are great monster killers but with a relatively short range (it averages 28" per shot). I hate flyers. It sounds like he could have beaten you with just the dragon! Kick his butt for me next time!