View Full Version : Daemons vs Empire 2000pts (tight game)

02-11-2008, 17:24
His list to the best of my knowledge.

5 Knights, full command
10 Knights, full command.
5 Knights of the inner circle, full command.

1 Rocket Battery
1 Hell Cannon
1 Cannon

5 Pistoliers
5 Pistoliers

1 2nd level Mage with 2 dispel scrolls
1 Priest on a horse
1 Lord on a horse with some Magic resistance 2 magic item
1 BSB with a banner that gives and extra Resolution bonus.

13 skirmishing scouting bowmen.

(I am pretty sure this all he fielded, not sure if there is enough core here…)

My list
29 Horrors w Banner of Sorc
29 Horrors w Banner of Sorc
10 Horrors

6 Flesh Hounds
6 Flesh Hounds
6 Flesh Hounds

2 Fiends
2 Fiends

Herald of Tz w Power Vortex
Herald of Tz w Wings

Opening thoughts. Well this should go well for me. My opponent has very little anti magic and though his knights are tough I felt I could out maneuver them and blast them with bolts of change. As for his war machines I felt my fiends should be more than able to handle them.

Terrain was ultimately irrelevant, other than a wood on the far left of the board which he hid his bowmen in and a hill on the right deployment zone where he placed his cannon and hellfire gun.


His placement.
He placed his large Cav Core in the center of the board, his 5 man regular knights on the left of them and the inner circle knights on the right, all basically in the center of the board.

He put his Cannon and Hellstorm on a hill on the right, his rocket battery on the far left corner.

One unit of pistoliers was placed at the bottom of the right hill to screen his artilery. The other unit of pistols went to the right of his big block of knights.

He placed his Bowmen in a wood on the left side of the table.

His Mage went with his cannon, his Priest with his inner circle, his lord and BSB rode with the 10man unit of horses.

My placement

I put my 2 big blocks and my little block of horrors on the right side of the board, directly across from his cannon and hellstorm.

I placed my fiends on either table edge, planning to run down and take out the artillery.

My 3 blocks of hounds went on the left side.

(I was hopping my bolt of change blocks on his right would force my opponent to charge at them with his knights, leaving my hounds free to flank and rear charge them in turn.)

As you may imagine magic for my opponent went nowhere in the entire game, he got off portent of far once, but it amounted to nothing so I will ignore his magic phases.

My opponent won first turn and took it.

His pistoliers next to his knight block moved to screen my hounds. While his large knight block moved into charge range of my Horrors. Sadly he misjudged and it became apperant to both of us that if a unit of my hounds overran his pistols then I would get to clip and wheel into his large knight block on the front.

His inner circle knights moved to charge range of another block of my hounds.

His last unit of knights moved. Into charge range also.

His bowmen moved in the forest in such a way as to still be out of LOS of my fiends but in a position to shoot the fiends at short range if they were to move in on his rocket battery.

His hill pistoliers rearranged a bit.

His cannon and rockets aimed at my big blocks, killing…. Nothing! Not a scratch.

(Well this was going very well. My opponent had made a serious tactical error with his pisoliers and his shooting did nothing.)

My Turn 1
I Charge with my Hounds against his Inner circle.
I Charge hounds into his pistoliers
I move hounds into position to threaten the flank of his large knight block.

I move my horrors up to Magic missile his knights.

I move my Fiends up to threaten his artilliery on both sides.

Magic sees 2 flickering fires and 1 bolt of change go off killing the full unit of 5 regular knights and shooting up the arilery pistoliers badly enough to make them break and flee off the table.
My hounds beat and peruse the pistoliers whom were trying to screen the knights. They catch the pistoliers and run into the front of the large knight unit.

My other unit of hounds puts 1 wound on the priest of sigmar, the other knights do 2 wounds, have a banner and a musician so win by 1, I roll instability and lose 2 more wound, Now down to 4 hounds.

(Ok so this is starting to look like a route of the Daemons, but read on…)

Turn 2
My opponent moves nothing.

Bow men do 4 wounds to my fiends killing one and wounding the other.

Hellstorm cannon gets 28 shots! Against a big block hitting 14 times on a 5+ to hit! Ends up killing 7 horrors taking that block down to a level 2 mage. The cannon hits the other big block killing 6 horrors in a ridiculous display of how not to roll 4 or higher on a d6.

In HtH the big block wipes out my hounds losing only 1 knight in the proccess.

The inner circle knights lose their priest and a knight but manage to do 4 wounds to my dogs, instability wipes them out.

My turn 2
My lone wounded fiend charges the rocket battery
My other fiends charge the helstorm gun.

My last unit of dogs charges the flank of his big block.

Magic sees nothing work as most of his units are in HTH and I discover the MR2 of his big block trying to get off gifts of chaos from my horror blocks.

(My magic looks potent until you realise that simply putting 4 wounds on a block of horros cuts it down to level 2 and eliminates the bolt of change, also it’s all magic missiles so simply getting into HtH neutralizes most of it’s effectiveness.)

Both fiends kill their artillery crews but the lone fiend on the left takes a wound for it’s trouble.

The Hounds on the flank of the knight big block kill 3 knights! The BSB does 2 wounds killing 1 hound, the Knight block as 2 banners including a +1 CR banner and numbers, I lose combat by 3! Instability wipes out 2 more hounds, I am now at 3 hounds left.

His turn 3.

His inner circle knights turn to line up on my 10 block of horrors.

His bow men fire at my left Fiend, killing it.

His Cannon flame templates my right fiends, doing 1 wound on one and 2 on the other.

His Large knight turns into my hounds as they won combat, it loses 1 more knight (Taking the unit down to half!) Kills nothing but manages to win combat by 3. I roll very low and lose nothing.

My turn 3

My fiends line up on his cannon and attached mage.
My magic does nothing as my opponent uses his last dispel scroll and the MR2 of his big block manage to keep me shut down.

Fighting again sees me lose to his big block, again I roll very low and my dogs hang in.

His Turn 4
His inner circle charge my horrors, killing 2 and I lose 2 more to instability.

His Cannon kills one fiend.

His bowmen hold a table quarter.

His big block kills a hound, loses a knight and I lose only 1 hound to instability, leaving a lone doggy in the fight!

My turn 4

I finally wake up and realize I can charge his knight unit with my fully ranked horrors! Better yet only a regular knight sits on the side

My fiend charges his mage and cannon crew, winning combat and running them off the table.

My hound dies horribly to his knight unit but my horrors win combat due to CR and flank. The Knights hold.

His Turn 5
His knights and horrors fail to wound I win combat but the knights hold after double rolling due to the BSB.

His Inner circle kills another horror and I lose some due to HTH.

My turn 5
No magic gets off due to MR 2 and a miscast from a herald. Herald takes a str 8 hit, makes his ward save and becomes a level 1 wizard.

HtH Sees my horrors win again and again the knights hold.

Due to a mistake in our turn count we believe this is turn 6 and call the game.

Tally I kill 1255 of him he only kills 845 of me and he holds a table quarter with his bow men.

Tie game!

(Wow, knights with AR 1 are tough! I am not sure what else I could have done to win this I interupted his charge. I got flanks I denied his knights the charge in most cases. I felt I had the better army and my opponent made a mistake with his screening pistoliers. All that and I still could only hold a tie.

My list looks magic heavy but in practice it is'nt that bad against even moderate anti magic.)

04-11-2008, 03:29
He has enough core. Two Knights units and the Archers.

And Empire Knights can be a tough nut to crack. He's just lucky his misplays didn't cost him more dearly then they did. I always try to avoid getting my knights charged, but he gave you charges he didn't need to.

Still, good battle, but don't let yourself get so enamored with your magic next time.

04-11-2008, 04:44
Good to see you have a nice close game rather than your usual slaughter ; )

Ya, empire knights and their 1+ saves can really be tough and a real pain. My bret lances used to bounce right off them unless they rolled badly.

(P.S. Is this the list you plan to use on friday?)

04-11-2008, 04:59
probably. I am currently playing around with diffrent builds. I think your orcs will roll this list.

07-11-2008, 01:16
You had trouble with his knights because your combat troops have trouble with high armor saves (duh) and you are overly reliant on your magic to deal with threats like heavy cavalry. As this battle shows, you really struggle against heavily armored enemies that can make it into combat with your blocks. Dispel scrolls are your biggest problem, but once those are drawn out you shouldn't have too much difficulty.

Maybe you could cut down on the hounds and fiends for something a bit better at cracking knights open, or some furies to buy more time for your magic to deal with them?

07-11-2008, 04:22
That's good advice. I am thinking of furies for this list. The only thing short of greater deamons that can crack armor better is a herald of korne with a firestorm blade, but trading an entire unit of dogs for 1 herald... Maybe worth a try....

thanks for the comment.

07-11-2008, 04:37
I'd drop the fiends for a unit of furies. Use the extra points to get a 3rd Tzeentch Herald and just accept that you'll have a hard time with heavy armor targets.

07-11-2008, 04:44

People already poo on this list because it has 14pd. I am reluctant to add more.

Furies on the other hand do intruige.....

07-11-2008, 05:24
Sorry, its hard to know what people are going for with their lists. When a list seems like its very hard already, which 14 PD and 18 Flesh Hounds and 2k is, I assume they're min/maxing and go with that.

If you want it to stay about the same type I'd still say switch the fiends for furies, if the fiends are primarily for war machines furies will do it just as well for cheaper.