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View Full Version : Pinning, I wish it worked different



shakespear
02-11-2008, 17:51
I swear in all my years of 40k I have never seen anyone fail a pinning test. It seems like a silly rule left over that they should drop. Its really useless in 5th

I would rather it work like:

Take X amount of hits, you are pinned

Take a hit from ordnance, you are pinned

Not wounds, hits

No pinning test either

Reaver83
02-11-2008, 18:08
You've had some bad luck then, my lash has pinned numerous people. Just your bad luck

march10k
02-11-2008, 18:23
Why would I worry about arrows bouncing off of my power armor? I think pinning is a psychological effect, and ineffective enemy fire wouldn't cause pinning. Seeing your buddies die would.

Highly disciplined troops would fight on undeterred. I think the rules are just right, but too many units have too high of a LD value. That's the real problem!

Inquisitor Engel
02-11-2008, 18:24
My Dire Avengers, who spent an entire game pinned by SM Scouts with Sniper Rifles after a Salamanders multi-melta destroyed their Wave Serpent (Damn you Vulkan!) would like to disagree.

totgeboren
02-11-2008, 18:35
wierd, I really fear pinning, and have pinned alot of units during my games. I even think its rare to go en entire game without someone getting pinned. Then again, playing IG vs Eldar vs Tau tend to make everything abit more interesting.

Jackmojo
02-11-2008, 20:41
Why would I worry about arrows bouncing off of my power armor? I think pinning is a psychological effect, and ineffective enemy fire wouldn't cause pinning. Seeing your buddies die would.

Highly disciplined troops would fight on undeterred. I think the rules are just right, but too many units have too high of a LD value. That's the real problem!

My thinking is that we need the same modifiers to LD for casualties caused by shooting as we get in close combat (i.e. take 4 wounds test at -4). That way its actually possible to stop an enemies advance with shooting, instead of just hoping you inflict enough casualties to weaken them before the inevitable assault...

Jack

The_Outsider
02-11-2008, 20:50
The problem with pinning is not enough weaposn can truly capitalise on it.

Probably the best pinning weapon in the game is the DE Terrorfex (and its variants, the horrorfex and xenospasm) and can quite easily pin anything that is not fearless. Why? Well it uses the small blast template and the more models it hits the higher the negative to your pinning test becomes. Hit 5 guys? You're taking a pinning test at -4.

With the blast rules it is an amazingly powerful weapon, is dirt cheap (well, the horrorfex is) and yo ucan mount the horrorfex variant on the raiders - so it can get into range really fast.

Cartographer
02-11-2008, 20:56
Why would I worry about arrows bouncing off of my power armor? I think pinning is a psychological effect, and ineffective enemy fire wouldn't cause pinning. Seeing your buddies die would.

Highly disciplined troops would fight on undeterred. I think the rules are just right, but too many units have too high of a LD value. That's the real problem!

Not to put it too bluntly, but your thinking here is flawed.
Your models don't know the shooting is/will be ineffective, they would, reasonably, treat all incoming fire as potentially fatal and should react accordingly. Ignoring enemy fire would then be an aspect of their high leadership (and would be worth a damn).

Playing Nids, SM & Crons, I've never failed a pinning test since it was introduced, I either don't take the required casualty due to my saves, have fearless troops or are Ld 10 anyway...

And I agree, shooting hits should cause the test, with casualties being the negative modifier (not that even that will affect my Nids, SM or Crons much...).

Warforger
02-11-2008, 21:17
I think it should work differently, except not with all shooting attacks, this would lead to immobile bike armies or not shooting devastator squads. I say it should be when a unit rapid fires, and all ordnance weapons as well. Also it should also depend on your armor, if your wearing carapace, then your not going to worry as much as that bolter shot coming at you as much as that Guardsman.

Wait come to think of it..... It should at least cause negatative modifiers to units which armor save he weapon ignores, as I wouldn't walk up in my terminator armor against that plasmagun thinking that I can withstand it.....

Noserenda
03-11-2008, 01:25
Pinning is usually a nice bonus in my current Force, occasionally something my Scouts shoot at will obligingly sit still for a better pasting :D But with my Old Alaotic army it was damn essential to pin at least a few units during the game or my poor Scorpions would get Nobbled :skull:

The Mechanic works well in 40k, if you want detailed fire reactions and such theres other game options out there.

shakespear
03-11-2008, 01:26
Pinning is usually a nice bonus in my current Force, occasionally something my Scouts shoot at will obligingly sit still for a better pasting :D But with my Old Alaotic army it was damn essential to pin at least a few units during the game or my poor Scorpions would get Nobbled :skull:

The Mechanic works well in 40k, if you want detailed fire reactions and such theres other game options out there.

Yep thats were I got my idea, everytime I play, I think, "man I wish it worked like this in 40k"

alex03
03-11-2008, 02:10
Pinning in 40k is kinda stupid anyways. In real life "pinning" from sniper fire only happened when on squad was on patrol and a single shot rang out and sniped someone. Then it was prudent to duck into cover until the sniper was dealt with, usually by high volumes of smg fire. In large battles who would know if bob was shot by a sniper or just one of the million machine gun bullets zinnging by. Prudent then would be to keep on going.

40k are not patrols. They are battles. Normal moral rules already cover the pychology of squads suffering large number of casualties. Maybe those rules could be fixed, cause they are rather weak.

I would be fine with pinning going away. They could give mortars and large indirect fire a "shaken" rule to represent them actually knocking soldiers senseless.

If they want to make sniper rifles better, make them better at killing at long range. They kinda did this already by giving them rending. Perhaps let sniper units assign wounds instead of the other player. That would make snipers wonderfull right there without a weak pinning rule that makes no sense.

Warforger
03-11-2008, 02:13
Keep in mind this is the 41st millennium, so Commanders and auspex wielding marines can find snipers......

El Haroldo
03-11-2008, 02:25
I would rather it work like:

Take X amount of hits, you are pinned

Take a hit from ordnance, you are pinned

Not wounds, hits

Been playing FoW eh?

In a sense i agree. Being 'pinned' isn't who just died and who didn't. It's 'hey, we're taking a lot of fire here and if we get up and run, we're going to be cut down'.

The mechanic barely works thoguh because so few weapons are pinning, and because Ld tests in general in 40k are a bit of a joke.

The concept does work though. Let's say your non-power armoured troops are in cover, and there's an objective 12'' away. On the otherside of that objective your opponent has a couple of heavy bolters, stitching up your squad in the ruins. You're enjoying a lovely cover save, but if you make a dash for the objective, you'll lose the squad before they can get there. Best keep them there until something else can deal with the heavy bolters.

That's a pinned squad.

shakespear
03-11-2008, 03:11
Been playing FoW eh?

.



Yep, lol

I am so impressed with that rule system and the support from the company

El Haroldo
03-11-2008, 03:28
Really? I had a game of it yesterday and found it incredibly bloody awkward.

MasterDecoy
03-11-2008, 03:56
Id be happy if pinning weapons just added a -1 modifier (per wound) to ld for purposes of running away (from 25% casultys). or pinnning weapons always cause moral checks if they hit/wound.

the neckbone
03-11-2008, 05:33
I run slannesh armie with blast masters abd a lash and i pin sqauds every couple of turns.
its not someting i count on but pinning a squad is ******* handy its just not reliable

espicially nids god i wish i could pin those lil buggers

Schismotive
03-11-2008, 05:51
I have a hard time utilizing the 'pinning' rule. I just don't have any weapons that cause pinning. As a space marine player, I find it rather silly that only a small handful of weapons actually cause pinning, but I'm unable to select an of them. Snipers, and what else is there? Hell, if I was being shot at, by, well, anything, I'd want to find some cover, even if my army had a D6 chance on a 5+ to save me. (would I really take that chance? hehe...)

I can't say the mechanics for 'pinning' (and quite frankly, a hell of a lot other things) is perfect, in fact, its far from it. However, I'm not saying its all that bad either. It can't be perfect, it's not TOO bad for now, but perhaps in the future it will become a little more, well present.

Son of Makuta
03-11-2008, 08:51
Try barbed stranglers.

Hit 7 or 8 enemy models, wound them on 2s, all of a sudden that Leadership 9 or 10 doesn't look so hot. :D

Edit: Just checked the rulebook. It's just a pinning test, no modifiers. Who came up with the -1 per wound modifier thing? Everyone at my club thought that was the case... stupid rumours.

vyper
03-11-2008, 10:01
My Imperial Guard have suffered at the hands of pinning many a time, especially when trying to march onto an objective, only to get your advance horribly broken up.