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grave digger
27-04-2005, 15:27
Hello,

I was offered a small all cav. HE army this morning in trade for another army. I am intriqued by the offer but I have two problems. 1) I know nothing about High Elves, zip, ziltch, nada! 2) No infantry does not make me feel right. Any case, I'll post what I have been offered. If anyone could make comments on the items I've been offered I would appreciate it greatly:

Two Heroes on horseback (one could be used as a Prince)
Two Mages on horseback
30 Silver Helms (3 groups of 10)
2 Great Eagles

All of the above are painted

I also have in various stages of painting -
6 Ellyrion Reavers
2 Tyranoc Chariots
2 Silver Helms

Before anyone makes the statement "buy the book" I would like that individulal to know that I will purchase the book either today or tomorrow, depending on what I hear. I currently own all other Fantasy Army Books. Just never got around to picking up this one or the Dark Elf one.

Thanx for your help,

Diggs

therat
27-04-2005, 23:12
First thing that caught my eye was the 30 helms, the backbone of a HE cav army. Other than that you can pretty much mix and match chariots, dragon princes and reavers, depending on what you like. I duno what you're giving up for this stuff, but it looks good. Just make sure you're not getting screwed monetarily. Personally, I'd prolly never make a HE cav army, I like the spear rules and swordmasters too much.

grave digger
28-04-2005, 00:58
That's my problem threat, I don't know the Spear or Swordmaster rules. I was going to pick up the book today but it's a 30mile drive and the wind is going pretty heavy right now. I decided to wait one more day.

Monetarily, it's about even. I'm coming out slightly ahead due to the fact that his is painted well and he will finish the other items.

Thanx for the info but could you be slightly more specific what these units do?

Diggs

taer
28-04-2005, 01:30
Silver helms are just basic cavalry, only slightly faster. Great Eagles are good march blocker/war machine hunters. Swordmasters are dead killy infantry. Very dead killy infantry. At initiative great weapon attacks killy.

grave digger
28-04-2005, 04:02
Initiative Great Weapons. OUCH! Do the Swordmasters have Str. 3 or 4?

What I was thinking of was to take the above army as the core. Pair it down a tad and take one large block of Spears (or perhaps Swordmasters) and 1 or 2 Repeaters to just harass the enemy. Would feel better in my mind I should think.

Diggs

PS: Is the reapeter becoming a plastic kit? I noticed that it will be released in a Battalion Box soon.

taer
28-04-2005, 04:20
Swordmasters are S-3, 5 in effect.

And yes, the RBT is indeed gonna be a plastic kit in the not to distant future.

grave digger
28-04-2005, 05:06
Ahh, much as I figured.

How much you want to bet that the plastic one will cost as much if not more than the metal one.

So, are Spears a good unit or are bowmen better? And what's the deal with Reavers? Are they worth it?

Thanx for all the help,

Diggs

taer
28-04-2005, 05:30
I like spearmen, but that's because they have the fight in three ranks special ability and the option to take a magic standard.

Reavers are kinda trash. They are very expensive and take up a special choice, which, personally, I'd rather have for chariots and other things. Plus, you already have the Great Eagles to perform the march block function, so I don't see why you'd want to include reavers as well.

grave digger
28-04-2005, 14:50
Three Ranks is pretty darn good. Puts them up with Pikemen.

Do Archers still get to shoot in two ranks or was that taken away?

Thanx again for the info,

Diggs

Sgt John Keel
28-04-2005, 15:21
Do Archers still get to shoot in two ranks or was that taken away?


Gone. Most prefer Repeater Bolt Throwers instead, as they hit harder. The Archers has more staying power though.

/Adrian

Moi
29-04-2005, 15:41
Reavers make good flanking forces, though. I use them as a harrassing, shooting unit that flee in front of my spearmen whenever charged. As a fast cav, they rally more easilly. With a spear (S4 on charge) and a bow, they cost 24 points apiece, which is pretty affordable for their use.

I personnally dislike Great Eagles as they die far too easilly. Using one comes to giving your opponent 50 points of feather pillow well before the beginning of the game without any benefits to you. Great Eagles and Reavers having a march block function, I prefer the latest as they're more tactically useful on the whole.

Etienne de Beaugard
29-04-2005, 15:59
HE all cav lists work very well. Silverhelms are one of the more points effective heavy cavalry units. The extra inch of movement really makes big difference (16" charge anyone). The rest of the units go well with the SHs. Reavers are just HE fast cavalry. They aren't that cost effective, but they serve a role in the army. Giant Eagles are great for march blocking.

HE foot armies also work, but they take a lot more finesse, and they have some serious problems against enemy cavalry.

Faust
29-04-2005, 19:12
<HE foot armies also work, but they take a lot more finesse, and they have some serious problems against enemy cavalry.>

Most definately agree with you on this one. What ways are the most promising to take care of this problem, the one that I have the most luck with is blasting the enemy apart with a heavy magice phase.
Faust

therat
02-05-2005, 00:37
A strong unit of 10 helms can usually more than handle enemy cavalry (other than Bretonnia) when placed in an infantry army. I usually see them fair quite well against my black knights when accompanied by a character. Spearelves and swordmasters do well in most situations, especially when backed by magic and shooting, because they have two of the most incredible rules in the game and have high initiative. I just wouldn't feel comfortable on the battlefield without them.

grave digger
02-05-2005, 03:55
Good Evening,

Thanx for the help so far guys. I finally found time to go pick up the army book so now I have some idea of what I'm doing. Some more questions.

I'm going to either take Spears or Swordmasters. Spears are cheaper point wise and cash wise. Thinking of a large block, say 5x5. If I do this, will I need 1 more infantry unit, say a small unit of Swordmasters?

Also, who would get the most use out of the 25 pt. standard? I'm leaning more towards the Spears with the standard of no fear/terror but it would make for a very fast unit if I give one unit of Silverhelms the standard that allows you to move through terrain. Decisions, decisions.

Diggs

Moi
02-05-2005, 06:02
Go with the Silver Helms and the Banner of Ellyrion. I play it very often and people never seem to see it coming when they have those horses just around the forest on their flank! In my experience, it is better than the no fear/terror banner as your elves already got Ld 8, so those test should not be a problem most of the time... (assuming good dice rolls on your part, that is!) Focus on your strength : manoeuvrability!

Also, in my experience, small units of swordmasters do not last long because they soon become a target on the battlefield (T3 and 5+ armour save is not that tough... sadly). If you use them, make sure you get the opponent shoot other threats or they won't even reach close combat. A couple of chariots or great eagles aiming at war machines should help you in this. Ellyrian reavers are also not bad at that, but cost more points and are better used in a shoot and flee tactic.

I personnally used swordmasters a lot until I switched to a more manoeuvrable army. They're awesome!

Oguleth
08-05-2005, 13:49
The models you`d get would make a very efficient force, so you aren`t getting something that would be useless without buying more. Easy as that.

As for HE spearmen and bowmen, I can`t say I like them a lot. Especially the bowmen are fairly useless (RBTs are superior for the same role), and the spearelves are only good against certain enemy infantry units. Swordmasters are kinda good, but well. Units of 15+ is needed, having just 10 or so will make them dead swordmaster pretty fast, since just a chariot or something like that will maim them quite easily...

irundaia
08-06-2005, 18:02
Good Evening,

Thanx for the help so far guys. I finally found time to go pick up the army book so now I have some idea of what I'm doing. Some more questions.

I'm going to either take Spears or Swordmasters. Spears are cheaper point wise and cash wise. Thinking of a large block, say 5x5. If I do this, will I need 1 more infantry unit, say a small unit of Swordmasters?

Also, who would get the most use out of the 25 pt. standard? I'm leaning more towards the Spears with the standard of no fear/terror but it would make for a very fast unit if I give one unit of Silverhelms the standard that allows you to move through terrain. Decisions, decisions.

Diggs



Just a small unit of swordmaster I mean cmon they like got only heavy armour (5+) one decent volley of wood elven arrows and they'd be dead. I just can't seem to find a reason why anyone would want to use small units of bloody swordmasters

Major Defense
08-06-2005, 21:00
As for HE spearmen and bowmen, I can`t say I like them a lot. Especially the bowmen are fairly useless (RBTs are superior for the same role), and the spearelves are only good against certain enemy infantry units.

When you break down the cost of archers versus RBTs and check their odds on wounding targets of different toughness you will find that archers have a better cost/kill ratio against T3 targets while RBTs kill better against T4 and armored targets. To simplify, RBT shots are wasted on Lizardmen Skinks unless you have nothing else to shoot at. If your enemy has T3 core units then it is a very good idea to take some archers.

Spearmen can be brutally effective if you use them correctly. All HE units are only good against certain enemies and WLs are only ever good when charging. I will say that HE core units can be really depressing when you just want to field Swordmasters and chariots.

gortexgunnerson
15-06-2005, 12:34
take lots of silverhelms a unit of swordmasters which you canmake stubburn and immune to panic. A coupe of chariots 2 eagles and 2 bolt throwers! Then deploy in a very long think line to force your oppenet to spread their troops to cover flanks and routes of attack then swing your fast removeable force together and strike at a single point.

And Eagles are fantastic and oh so cheap at 50 points! They are create march blocker and the truely even technic of landing infront of units at funny angles to pull the enemy away from your important troops is a life saver