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Dictator
06-11-2008, 22:58
Other than the Tyranids being an extra galactic race: what other extra-galactic events/back-story/races/raids/imperial missions/etc... do we know of?
Does anyone have any info on this?
The 40k universe is tied heavily to just one galaxy.
Did the old ones venture to other galaxies? Necrons/Necrontynr? Eldar? Star Gods? Chaos? Etc...
Any info, based upon fluff (black Library, codices, Rule Books, etc...)would be great.

Clockwork-Knight
06-11-2008, 23:28
Someone will mention the space probe that was launched from Terra 15.000 years ago to explore the universe, and that it still only picks up the signals from orks. They may forget that the probe is still in the milky-way, and slowly traveling through real space. 15.000 years ago, the galaxy was trapped in the super-warp storm, so the probe had to be launched in real space, and is still quite near to Terra.

I mention this before some people may do any mistake about how wide-spread the orks might be.

thechosenone
07-11-2008, 01:16
This comes up often, i think if you search you'll find like a mega million page thread that talks about this. There is a book, Defenders of Ultramar i think, where they find an undigested crab man from outside the galaxy in a tyranid bio ship. I could be wrong or totally crazy... or both.

I think the other thing that i mentioned myself is that if proto-sentient energy beings developed around our stars to feed on them and eventually assume intelligent mindsets to become the ctan its very reasonable to assume that they may be around other stars.

Sadly its a question that has few answers

Inquisitor Engel
07-11-2008, 01:40
I think the other thing that i mentioned myself is that if proto-sentient energy beings developed around our stars to feed on them and eventually assume intelligent mindsets to become the ctan its very reasonable to assume that they may be around other stars.

Yes, but they are not C'tan. They are amoeba-like, leeches of stars, without sentience and without malice, drive or ambition other than to exist or feed. It was turning them INTO C'tan that gave them personalities manifest.

With the Necrons all-but ambition-less, I don't think that even extra-galactic "C'tan," have a snowball's chance in any greater than the second level of Hell of being made material by the Necrons.

Which I'm well aware is nowhere close to the point of this thread... but there we go. :) Tangent.

We've got weird enough species running around the Galaxy (read Xenology if you don't believe me!) without worrying about what else is coming on the next bus. ;)

Dictator
07-11-2008, 01:51
Inquisitor engel, great point about the C'tan (being amoeba like without personalities till the necrons made em physical). But let us not let this thread go off topic. Keep on topic of the extra-galactic stuffs

VanHel
07-11-2008, 04:15
I still hold to the theory that the Tyranids are actually running FROM something extragalactic.

logosloki
07-11-2008, 04:39
I still hold to the theory that the Tyranids are actually running FROM something extragalactic.

that would be delicious.

Apologist
07-11-2008, 09:00
There is a book, Defenders of Ultramar i think, where they find an undigested crab man from outside the galaxy in a tyranid bio ship. I could be wrong or totally crazy... or both.

It's from Ian Watson's Space Marine. Great evocation of Space Opera, and that encounter is one I always thought was particularly cool. Essentially, the space marines have 'taken names' all over the galaxy, and are now fighting the tyranids... and finding it rather harder to do.

With their commanding officer laid low by tyranid poisons, the marines are driving into the ship when one of them is swallowed up by a teleporter worm. In trying to retrieve him, they blow its lips off and drop a choke grenade in.

Something emerges, but it's not their battle brother. Instead, it's a long-dead alien, its eyes dried to buttons and its armour mottled and pitted. Its appearance, while alien, in reminiscent of the marines themselves – a fairly stark message on Watson's part that the tyranids have smothered other galaxies to extinction, even when faced with sentient species that have enhanced armour and weaponry.

Trés GRIMDARK, eh? :p

+++
Other than that, I think extra-galactic mentions in the fluff tend to be missions that never return. The void (for some reason) is uncrossable... except for the Tyranids; which, incidentally, is what made the 'nids so compelling for me – a great drifting caravan of unfeeling flesh and uncaring hunger that can not be stopped.

djinn8
07-11-2008, 09:22
Do the Choas Gods exist beyond the Milkyway?

Neknoh
07-11-2008, 09:39
I would say yes, for the Realm of Chaos, the Warp, is another dimension interely, meaning the "chaos gods" doesn't exist inside the Milky Way, instead, anyplace where warp has a presence, the Gods of Chaos exist.

Clockwork-Knight
07-11-2008, 10:33
Nobody knows. It seems not, as the Chaos Gods are very opposed to the Tyranids, and do have problems with the massive psionic gestalt that is the hive mind.

Or perhaps the Chaos Gods of the Milky Way are only a very very very small part of a super-big chaos entity dispersed over the entire universe.

MrBigMr
07-11-2008, 11:32
Aren't the Zoats from out there?

Cartographer
07-11-2008, 11:49
Aren't the Zoats from out there?

The Zoats got retconned into a Hive Fleet in 4th Ed and the Imperium destroyed them.

DapperAnarchist
07-11-2008, 11:55
Sort of? Its not clear where they're from... At the very least, the Zoats are from the very outermost edge of this galaxy.

And they were always the primary military force of a Hive Fleet... they just happened to be a species enslaved, instead of a genetic code co-opted.

I say no on the Chaos Gods outside the galaxy - and this explains why the void is uncrossable, too. Beyond the psychic turmoil of the sentient species, the warp is flat, undisturbed. Therefore, no gods. Also therefore, travelling in the warp is pretty much the same as travelling in the real, putting your top speed at whatever your thrusters can provide.

Saul T
07-11-2008, 12:09
Like the thought of the tyraninds running from something more powerfull. Like the Honoured matres in the dune novels.

It is possible that some races such as orks and eldar have made it to other galaxies. Eldar live for a very long time and have advanced ships. The distance to andromeda is about 20 times the width of the milkyway. Which is quite close in relation to the size of the galaxies. Even if it takes many thousands of years it is still within the life time of an eldar. Ork spores in drifting space hulks would probably survive the trip.

I think I remember reading in rouge trader that small groups of humans set out of the galaxy on generation ships as well. The problem has always been the lack of warp travel as you get away from the edge of the galaxy.

TheBigBadWolf
07-11-2008, 12:30
It's from Ian Watson's Space Marine. Great evocation of Space Opera, and that encounter is one I always thought was particularly cool. Essentially, the space marines have 'taken names' all over the galaxy, and are now fighting the tyranids... and finding it rather harder to do.

With their commanding officer laid low by tyranid poisons, the marines are driving into the ship when one of them is swallowed up by a teleporter worm. In trying to retrieve him, they blow its lips off and drop a choke grenade in.

Something emerges, but it's not their battle brother. Instead, it's a long-dead alien, its eyes dried to buttons and its armour mottled and pitted. Its appearance, while alien, in reminiscent of the marines themselves – a fairly stark message on Watson's part that the tyranids have smothered other galaxies to extinction, even when faced with sentient species that have enhanced armour and weaponry.

Trés GRIMDARK, eh? :p

+++
Other than that, I think extra-galactic mentions in the fluff tend to be missions that never return. The void (for some reason) is uncrossable... except for the Tyranids; which, incidentally, is what made the 'nids so compelling for me – a great drifting caravan of unfeeling flesh and uncaring hunger that can not be stopped.

That sounds awesome, just like the bit in Alien when they find that big alien in the chair :), i wish BL would re-release it.

malika
07-11-2008, 12:35
IIRC BL are going to re-press Ian Watson's book! :D

I'm curious about more extra-galactic stuff. Are there planets outside our galaxy? As in planets which are located between galaxies or is the space between two universes totally devoid of anything?

TheBigBadWolf
07-11-2008, 12:39
IIRC BL are going to re-press Ian Watson's book! :D


Woo hoo, that is good news, cheers :)

Apologist
07-11-2008, 12:59
Woo hoo, that is good news, cheers :)

Unfortunately, I think that it's Watson's Inquisitor trilogy that's being reprinted (as an omnibus), rather than [i]Space Marine[/i.] :(

Saul T
07-11-2008, 15:00
IIRC BL are going to re-press Ian Watson's book! :D

I'm curious about more extra-galactic stuff. Are there planets outside our galaxy? As in planets which are located between galaxies or is the space between two universes totally devoid of anything?

It is possible that intergalactic space contains individual solar systems and lone stars and planets. They would be thrown out of galaxies during mergers etc.

Gorbad Ironclaw
07-11-2008, 16:02
I'm curious about more extra-galactic stuff. Are there planets outside our galaxy? As in planets which are located between galaxies or is the space between two universes totally devoid of anything?


Galaxies are just dense concentrations of stars kept in formation by gravity. There is nothing saying there couldn't be scattered stars (and I believe current belief is that there are?) between the galaxies and that there couldn't be planets around them.

Lisiecki
07-11-2008, 16:18
I'm curious about more extra-galactic stuff. Are there planets outside our galaxy? [QUOTE=malika;3063008]

It depends on how you define the word. When i was growing up the word Planet specifically referred to the 9 planets around Sol.
I think following Pluto there is a size and mass requirement, and that orbital body's that are simmiler to the 8 planets in our solar system, would be "planets"
this may have changed, or it may not have. The last time i studied such things, it was assumed that there were planets around other stars, but it couldn't be verified because of the limits of the tools used.

[QUOTE=malika;3063008]As in planets which are located between galaxies or is the space between two universes totally devoid of anything?

Strictly speaking, there is "nothing" aside for dark matter and hydrogen between galaxies

Theoretical Physics and philosophy aside there is only one universes. the universe is everything that physically exists: the entirety of space and time, all forms of matter, energy and momentum, and the physical laws and constants that govern them.

Spacecurves
07-11-2008, 18:44
The space between galaxies is for all intents and purposes completely empty.

However it is technically correct that there could be a star system floating in the void which was thrown out of a galaxy through a merger or collision.

Cool setting for a sci-fi story dont you think? :)

CthulhuDalek
07-11-2008, 23:25
Hopefully C:Tyranids of 5th Edition will shed some more light on this subject. Or at least some of their past.

RCgothic
07-11-2008, 23:38
AFAIK, The Warp is naturally very easy to cross, as the Old Ones originally found.

However, it gets stirred by the emotions of the younger races, which makes navigation difficult. Warp Navigation is only made possible by the Astronomican, which does not reach to the edges of the galaxy.

Races like orks inhabit planets right up to the edge of the galaxy, so the warp is impassible around the edges out of reach of the astronomican.

I believe that the warp is actually very calm and easily navigable in the void between galaxies, but imperial vessels can't get that far our.

Maidel
07-11-2008, 23:44
IIRC BL are going to re-press Ian Watson's book! :D


99% certain its not THAT book as they have stated that it took the fluff in a direction that they were not comfortable with.

El_Machinae
08-11-2008, 01:16
The 40k galaxy is awfully dramatic and full of danger. It contains 200 billion stars.
The universe contains 200 billion galaxies. There could be millions of threats which are orders of magnitudes greater than the 'nids combined with all the chaos gods put together. And humanity is so small and short-sighted that they'd never know.

MrBigMr
08-11-2008, 02:30
Strictly speaking, there is "nothing" aside for dark matter and hydrogen between galaxies.
And Tyranid excrement. Don't forget the Tyranid excrement. Nothing like boldling going where no man has gone before and crashing your ship into one.


The 40k galaxy is awfully dramatic and full of danger. It contains 200 billion stars.
The universe contains 200 billion galaxies. There could be millions of threats which are orders of magnitudes greater than the 'nids combined with all the chaos gods put together. And humanity is so small and short-sighted that they'd never know.
Do you know what would be really sad part? That out of all those galaxies, this would be the most interesting one, the one with all the action and strangest of things.

I do have to say that I find some of the scifi universes that don't have sentient life available on every other star system quite interesting. Sort of "we're all pretty snow flakes and we're f-ing it up like there's no tomorrow." These include things like the Battletech universe, Aliens (ok, you have 2 other races, which are not that common to begin with), Lexx, etc.

Wonder if one has a race with the technology of both Necrons (Science!) and Old Ones (Mysterious Magicks), how long would it take for them to take over those 200 billion galaxies?

Inquisitor Engel
08-11-2008, 02:53
99% certain its not THAT book as they have stated that it took the fluff in a direction that they were not comfortable with.

A number of the Game Development staff would eat their hats if it were THAT book. They told me so.

Unless they just had him... completely rewrite it.

Lisiecki
08-11-2008, 02:57
god i love that book
I really, really do


A number of the Game Development staff would eat their hats if it were THAT book. They told me so.

Unless they just had him... completely rewrite it.

MrBigMr
08-11-2008, 03:06
Rewrite... By Goto! Buahahahahahahah!
*disappears coughing through a cloud of smoke*

To tell the truth, I can live with a mere Inquisition War re-print. I've wanted to have that for some time now, but either they're out of stock or cost an arm and a leg (£30 is a little too much for it). Dammit, if they do re-print it, I'm up a novel creek without a paddle. Not only do I have to finish Pawns of Chaos, but I have Dark Adeptus, Blind, Eisenhorn and Ravenor trilogies, Eye of Terror, Liber Chaotica, Munitorum Manual and Eldar Prophesy (just so that I can say I've read all non-human BL novels) just waiting for me to read them. Oh well, it's not like I have anything better to do.

Lisiecki
08-11-2008, 03:08
Rewrite... By Goto! Buahahahahahahah!
*disappears coughing through a cloud of smoke*

To tell the truth, I can live with a mere Inquisition War re-print. I've wanted to have that for some time now, but either they're out of stock or cost an arm and a leg (£30 is a little too much for it). Dammit, if they do re-print it, I'm up a novel creek without a paddle. Not only do I have to finish Pawns of Chaos, but I have Dark Adeptus, Blind, Eisenhorn and Ravenor trilogies, Eye of Terror, Liber Chaotica, Munitorum Manual and Eldar Prophesy (just so that I can say I've read all non-human BL novels) just waiting for me to read them. Oh well, it's not like I have anything better to do.

I got the Omnibus, and when i see copys at the used book store, i buy them, i buy all of them...

So much love

Inquisitor Engel
08-11-2008, 04:34
The space between galaxies is for all intents and purposes completely empty.

However it is technically correct that there could be a star system floating in the void which was thrown out of a galaxy through a merger or collision.

Cool setting for a sci-fi story dont you think? :)

Technically, no.

Space is full of all kinds of disgusting, deadly radiation, increasing in weirdness and destructiveness as things get bigger. We all know that the Earth's electromagnetic field protects our planet from the Sun's stellar radiation.

It's now known that the sun itself projects a solar field that protects us from all kinds of space-borne nastiness. That same thing protecting the solar system is the same thing the Earth needs protecting from.

Now, doesn't it stand to reason that a galaxy (or perhaps the supermassive black hole at its centre) protects that within the galaxy from other space energies that could destroy other things?

That and if there ISN'T that tertiary level of radiation that we need to be shielded from (and there's no evidence other than a trend either way) there'd be no real difference, any galaxies' light would appear as stars to the inhabitants of said planet.

*shrug*

MrBigMr
08-11-2008, 04:42
But scifi teaches us that radiation is the source of all cool stuff. A planet not shielded should be filled with all sorts of crazy things.

malika
08-11-2008, 07:00
Hopefully C:Tyranids of 5th Edition will shed some more light on this subject. Or at least some of their past.

I seriously doubt that. GW will probably add some new Hive Fleets to it and mention some random cool sounding stuff but beyond that it will be the recycling of old material.

Griefbringer
08-11-2008, 10:36
And Tyranid excrement. Don't forget the Tyranid excrement. Nothing like boldling going where no man has gone before and crashing your ship into one.


Considering the efficiency and thoroughness of the tyranids, I would rather presume that they have dedicated recycling mechanisms for their excrement, rather than dumping perfectly good raw material to the intergalactic space.

Perhaps the intergalactic space is full of tyranid ships, with the tyranids spending their time by making endless covers of Beastie Boys Intergalactic? :cool:

Simon Sez
08-11-2008, 13:21
But scifi teaches us that radiation is the source of all cool stuff. A planet not shielded should be filled with all sorts of crazy things. Like dust!

I have the strangest feeling the Milky Way is scheduled to be impacting another Galaxy sometime in the future, which should be useful to any sci fi writer needing inspiration.

Spacecurves
08-11-2008, 14:04
Technically, no.

Space is full of all kinds of disgusting, deadly radiation, increasing in weirdness and destructiveness as things get bigger. We all know that the Earth's electromagnetic field protects our planet from the Sun's stellar radiation.

It's now known that the sun itself projects a solar field that protects us from all kinds of space-borne nastiness. That same thing protecting the solar system is the same thing the Earth needs protecting from.

Now, doesn't it stand to reason that a galaxy (or perhaps the supermassive black hole at its centre) protects that within the galaxy from other space energies that could destroy other things?

That and if there ISN'T that tertiary level of radiation that we need to be shielded from (and there's no evidence other than a trend either way) there'd be no real difference, any galaxies' light would appear as stars to the inhabitants of said planet.

*shrug*

....what?

Yes there is radiation everywhere, even in intergalactic space, but the spirit of the original question was if there was visible mass in the void between galaxies. I doubt he was interested in radiation, or the casmir effect for that matter.

Second, no there is no reason to believe there is mystery energy that smites anyone who sets foot outside our galaxy, not sure where you got that from.

Borg451
10-11-2008, 02:09
....what?

Yes there is radiation everywhere, even in intergalactic space, but the spirit of the original question was if there was visible mass in the void between galaxies. I doubt he was interested in radiation, or the casmir effect for that matter.

Second, no there is no reason to believe there is mystery energy that smites anyone who sets foot outside our galaxy, not sure where you got that from.

Galactic Barrier? (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Galactic_barrier)

Inquisitor Engel
10-11-2008, 03:27
Second, no there is no reason to believe there is mystery energy that smites anyone who sets foot outside our galaxy, not sure where you got that from.

There's no reason to suggest it's NOT there either.

Ten years ago, we had no idea that the sun's magnetic field protected us from malign extra-galactic radiation. One hundred years before that we had no idea the Earth's magnetic field protected us from solar radiation.

One hundred years from know, who knows what we shall know?

Allen
10-11-2008, 07:28
AFAIK, The Warp is naturally very easy to cross, as the Old Ones originally found.

However, it gets stirred by the emotions of the younger races, which makes navigation difficult. Warp Navigation is only made possible by the Astronomican, which does not reach to the edges of the galaxy.

Races like orks inhabit planets right up to the edge of the galaxy, so the warp is impassible around the edges out of reach of the astronomican.

I believe that the warp is actually very calm and easily navigable in the void between galaxies, but imperial vessels can't get that far our.

Human ships can perform warp jumps without the Light of the Astronomican as a inter-dimensional orientation feature.
There was warp travel before the Astronomican...according to background, there was warp travel even before mankind managed to create the Navigator human sub-species. The Light of the Emperor was built as a a facilitation to warp travel: it works as a fixed point used by navigators as a reference to easily orientate their jumps in the other dimension.

Without that fixed point the warp jumps need to be short and more frequent, increasing the time used to cover sensible distance. There's also a greater possibilty to miscalculate something and jump in a not desired destination.


AFAIK there are some references about human cultures in the Eastern Fringe, the part of space in the galactic east where the Astronomican does not shine. Probably those are remenants of Age of Strife cultures, however: the only thing that stop the Imperium launching an expedition beyond the Light of the Astronomican is superstition.
The Crusade of Macharius stopped at the planet later named "Ultima Macharia" because beyond it the Navigators could not see the Astronomican, and the soldier thought that venturing away from the Light of the Emperor could end with them stranded in alien places without the protection of the Emperor.



The only human-created "thing" that is really mandatory to perform warp jumps are the Geller Fields, those energy fields that surround human starships and prevent materium-immaterium overlaps on board. Without the Geller Fields humanity need to send automated ships into the warp...but 40K human "automated" tech is based on organic components (mainly natural nervous systems or vat-grown ones), so even in this case there's still the problem of warp-possession.

AdmiralDick
10-11-2008, 10:10
Nobody knows. It seems not, as the Chaos Gods are very opposed to the Tyranids, and do have problems with the massive psionic gestalt that is the hive mind.

where do you get that impression from?

the Tyranids use Warp travel and have psykers, so they must have access to the Warp in other galaxies. and the reason they cause a disturbance in the warp is because they have an enormous presence in it. not because they don't interact with it at all, otherwise the Necrons would have a similar sort of effect.

the simple fact is that the latent psychic nature of the Tyranids has a huge impact on the Warp, much more so than any other race, or even a combination of races (Humans, Orks and Eldar), making the current 'milky way' Chaos Gods seem quite weak an ineffectual in comparison.

if anything its quite likely that the Tyranids have created their own 'chaos god' and have dragged it with them into the Milky Way. perhaps when the invasion commences in full we'll see a new god. perhaps even it will be the deification of the Hive Mind itself!

the example of the Tyranids means that it would seem likely that the Warp extends as an almost exact reflection of real space, but behind the scenes. and just deep sea fumaroles life in the warp is generated only in isolated pockets, around life in the real world, where it can be fed and sustained. meaning it is perfectly plausible that there are other, extra-galactic 'chaos' gods, but that they can't travel from one galaxy to another.