PDA

View Full Version : Deamons doubles list



siphon101
07-11-2008, 16:15
Hey all, I have a doubles tournament coming up, and I wanted to run the list by you all, the line separates the two lists:

LIST I

1 Herald of Nurgle
- battle standard bearer with banner of glory (all demons with 12” are stubborn
- lvl 1 wizard
- palanquin
- slime trail

20 plaguebearers
- musician and standard bearer
- standard of seeping decay (reroll all failed wounds)

1 Herald of Tzeentch (general and marshal of the lists)
- flames of tzeentch
- spell breaker

19 horrors
- musician and standard bearer
- icon of sorcery (unit is +1 to cast)

3 fiends of slaanesh

LIST II

1 Herald of Khorne (army general)
- juggernaut
- obsidian armor (3+ armor save, negates magic weapon effects)

26 bloodletters
- full command
- skull totem (can not be march blocked)

1 Herald of Slaanesh
- lvl 1 wizard
- many armed monstrosity

19 daemonettes
- full command
- siren standard (units charged may only hold)

6 flamers

akgaroth
07-11-2008, 21:12
1 Herald of Nurgle
- battle standard bearer with banner of glory (all demons with 12” are stubborn
- lvl 1 wizard
- palanquin
- slime trail

20 plaguebearers
- musician and standard bearer
- standard of seeping decay (reroll all failed wounds)


Be prepared to be hated...
For what concerns the first list, I only suggest you to split the horrors unit in 2; you'll have 1DD more and you can cast one more time the always useful "red flames of Tzeentch".

The second list I think is bit worse; your general is awersome (be prepared to be hated here too...), but your bloodletter's unit is TOO big and, contrary to the plaguebearers, they will really suffer to be charged from the flanks.
The main problem in the second list is, in fact, that you only have 3 HUGE units which are very frail to shoots and to be flank charged (which will probably happen). You should make these unit a bit smaller and add some furies or hounds.

PopeAlexanderVI
07-11-2008, 21:36
Horrors would be much better off in 2 units of ten. Unless you want to find the points to bump them up to 30 for a Bolt of Change.

Making your Nurgle Herald a wizard is a waste of 50 points.

Your Tzeentch Herald can have a better gift setup, I'd say either Power Vortex+Winged Horror or Master of Sorcery+Dark Magister. Lean towards the former though.

Think the Fiends could be something more useful as well. Either get more flamers, always a good move, or some flesh hounds. Not quite sure what the fiends are there for as is.

Khorne Herald is fine.

Bloodletter unit is way too big, I'd drop it down to 12-15 (maybe take 2 units if you want to/don't have other models.)

No reason to make the Slaanesh Herald a wizard either, kind of a waste of points since there are cheaper ways to get more dispel dice. Personally I'd switch out the Slaanesh Herald for another Tzeentch Herald.

Daemonette unit can be made smaller for the same reasons as the Bloodletters. Or taken out altogether, you don't need more core and there a better things to do their job. Like Flesh Hounds.

Use the extra points on getting some furies, flesh hounds, flamers. If you're worried about dispel dice bring units of 10 horrors.

Taking two daemon armies to a doubles tournament is kind of brutal. But if you're going to do it you might as well take these suggestions and make your list as hard as possible.

siphon101
07-11-2008, 23:21
Daemonette unit can be made smaller for the same reasons as the Bloodletters. Or taken out altogether, you don't need more core and there a better things to do their job. Like Flesh Hounds.

Unfortunatly, because this is a doubles tournament, EACH list has to have 2 core choices. I understand about cutting down the bloodletters, but each list has to have 2 core, so the daemonettes sorta have to stay. So while I appreciate the comments, and I love the splitting the horrors idea, keep in mind that each list has to be no more than 1250, which limits how much swapping around I can do, it's not like I can take a little from one list, a little from another, and add one unit with those points, any points taken off one list have to be used in that list, which sort of negates things like drop fiends, make flamers bigger, since they're in the same list.

And the fiends are there for war machine hunting.

Though I am considering trimming 6 bloodletters off and adding 6 furies.

PopeAlexanderVI
08-11-2008, 00:23
If the fiends are there for war machine hunting then you can drop them and get furies for cheaper. Same function, doesn't take up a rare slot.

I am not seeing why you couldn't split your big unit of horrors in the first list into 2 smaller units.

This would be easier for me to just make the adjustments I'm talking about and present it in list form.

Army 1 (exactly 1250 with Despair banner, drop some flamers for different banner):

Tzeentch Herald
-Power Vortex
-Winged Horror

Nurgle Herald
-Palanquin
-BSB with some banner (I prefer Despair myself)
-Slime Trail and Noxious Vapors

10 Horrors
10 Horrors
20 Plaguebearers
-Full Command, Standard
5 Furies
5 Flamers

Army 2 (1241 Pts)

Khorne Herald
-Juggernaut and Armor

Tzeentch Herald
-Power Vortex
-Disc

12 Bloodletters

11 Bloodletters

5 Furies

5 Flesh Hounds

5 Flesh Hounds

5 Flamers

tricker53
08-11-2008, 01:02
you could give the khorne herald sword for S7 flaming just to add to his ridiculousness. . .

with the slaanesh herald, to the best of my knowledge, torment blade gives +1A (2 hand weapons) for 45 points cheaper than many armed, and it has the added bonus of Ld tests to strike for the enemy. taking this instead will leave room for a siren song, which is a very nasty power in combo with flesh hounds. alternatively temptator is not bad, however you dont have much in this list which hits Ld hard so i would go siren song instead.

frankly im more of a fan of nettes than letters. bloodletters are fairly circumstantial in their attacks, because the KB wont do anything to 5+ save models, and 4+ it isnt doing much either (6+ to nothing, what a loss!). nettes have enough attacks to swamp most units, they sorta make me think of a spears unit with ASF (2A each = 2 ranks of spears striking, almost). plus theyre just as hard (more like easy) to kill as letters (unlike in 40k. . .).

siphon101
08-11-2008, 03:21
I'm a little confused about something, but what's the point of winged horror on a Tzeentch herald? I mean..ok, it can fly...so?

It's a tzeentch herald, what am I going to do, fly out there and get cut down? I can see it has uses for a dive bombing mage, but wouldn't the focus in the unit be a bit better?

Dead Man Walking
08-11-2008, 03:54
I dont believe that Torment blade counts as two hand weapons. Its a magical hand weapon, which is to say its not a magical great weapon or magical two hand weapons. I may be wrong but I dont think you can add it to the original hand weapon.

Anyways the point of flying is to either stay in a safe place (fly behind the woods and when threatened fly behind that unit.) or to march block and stay in a safe place, though I wouldnt do that unless the opponent has no direct damage magic or shooting. Personally I never understood other players love of winged horror....

BUT I do put a lot of stock in a Tzeentch herald on a chariot with flames of Tzeentch and spell breaker. That gives you a flying chariot which is unit strength 5 (land behind a fleeing unit and its destroyed.). It also pumps out the damage spells and shoots d6 str 4 shots a turn and can even stand and shoot. It also carries the only Daemon dispel scroll with spell breaker. If you really need it and feel you can survive the charge you can toss in some impact hits and rank negating US5 flank or rear flank hits.

You could remove some horrors to buy the chariot. The only thing you get from a horror unit at that level is an extra powerdie and a spell that has a very short range, the next useful spell requires an insane amount of horrors that its not worth taking. The spell has a short range (if they are that close its too late already.) requires 2 dice to cast and could be strength 1 just as easily as strength 6.

My suggestion is to drop the horrors down to 10 and spend the points elsewhere, like on a chariot, screamers, another fiend (x4) or nurglings (useless, but your theme is nurgle and tzeentch.)

tricker53
08-11-2008, 05:17
iirc all daemon attacks are magic attacks. maybe i read it wrong (army book not on me atm) but if so, then yes it is 2 hand weapons.

PopeAlexanderVI
08-11-2008, 08:48
I play TKs and get a ton of use out of our 20 point flying item. If your enemy doesn't have shooting you should have no problem keeping your hero out of trouble. If your enemy does have shooting you should still be fine, will just have to limit what you can target by hiding behind terrain.

Dead Man Walking
08-11-2008, 12:29
Then there are spells that can hit any unit on the table regardless of being able to see it...

I dont think you can take the torment blade and count it as an additional handweapon, it says hand weapon. Theres a VC character that specifically says he wields a magic weapon and an additional hand weapon to get the +1 attack bonus. It doesn't say that here.

But thats something that should be asked in the rules posts, the only thing I could find in errata is that it says if a weapon counts as a flail and has a magical weapon then you get the stack of +2 str on charge and magical effect of weapon. Also if your a bloodthirster and you take axe of khorne and the str 7 flaming weapon it stacks both onto one weapon.

It may just make your magic hand weapon into the temptator.

Atrahasis
08-11-2008, 12:49
Gifts are not magic weapons, so any reasoning in that vein is moot.

Torment Blade grants +1A to a herald on foot.