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Jonik
09-11-2008, 20:59
I've always wanted a night goblin only army. It's the horde aspect that gets me, but there are so many aspects of the lists possible that are fun and exciting! The fact that the BfSP box with a dwarf exchange scheme gives a large amount of units useable to field is just fuelling my madness to be honest!

The aim of the list is to be fun to play, but that also has a chance to win(!?)...

I've read a bucket full of lists, but there never seems to be enough points, even without the double giant combo I have at the moment.

The fact that there are so many goblin units that are fun, and actually useful have caused me problems too, going as far as causing me to not take the 2 trolls, and 20 spider riders that come with the BfSP collection...

I've also not sorted any magic items, instead going with the 'here's 50points I'll sort it later when I know what I'm doing' idea!

Is the list on the right wavelength? It has to be fun, as I know they can be, but I don't want an army that will never ever win... Though there's nothing wrong with losing in an hilarious way - just not all the time.

The list:

[hr]

Skarsnick - 205
-Is he worth it? The bound item looks delicious, as are his other special rules... and Ld8!

L2 shaman (&50pts magic items) - 135
L2 shaman (&50pts magic items) - 135
L2 shaman (&50pts magic items) - 135
-Some heavy magic support, and since gobbos can't really win fights, and their magic is pretty good, why not?

31 NGs hw&shield, nets, standard, musician, 2 fanatics - 190 (inc skarsnick)
35 NGs hw&shield, nets, standard, musician, 2 fanatics - 202
35 NGs hw&shield, nets, standard, musician, 2 fanatics - 202

-The bulk of my gobbo horde. Nets to hopefully cause fewer strength, meaning my 5+ save might happen!, deployed 7x5? Also the BfSP gobbos (spears = handweapons conversion) plus an addition multi part box.

20 NGs bows, 1 fanatic - 85
20 NGs bows, 1 fanatic - 85
-BfSP bowmen, for the flanks, and fanatics to cause issues ;)

Spear Chukka - 35
- I had points left...

3 Squig herders - 90
5 Squig hoppers - 90

Giant - 205
Giant - 205

- Squig and giant goodness, for charging down a flank or whatnot. Giant rules look to be some of the most fun out there :D Jump up and down hehehe....

Just over 2000pts, but I don't expect every shaman to use all 50pts...

[hr]

Now, I know I'm missing fast stuff. And I know that I am rather low on goblins (or am I?) compared to some of the lists I've seen. But there are sooo many cool things!

What are doom divers like - is it worth switching out 1 giant for one, a rock lobba and some spear chuckers?

Am I really low on goblins? They can't win fights on their own...

More squigs?

Is skarsnick a good idea? A great shaman with upgrades is 50odd more, but he is level 4....

[hr]


Anyway, I seem to have rambled on a bit... I'd appreciate any help you can give, I know there's been a lot of things asked throughout!

Thankyou very much!

Jonik

sing Sang a song
09-11-2008, 21:08
If i were you i will drop the either both or one of the bow armed gobbos, and get more spear chukkas, and either go for all herders or all hoppers, since their numbers are too low to do anything.

Jonik
10-11-2008, 09:31
I've redone the list, now with the black gobbo (black orc warboss) and the entire range from BfSP - any better?


Revised list - ish, I'm 150 over....

The Black Gobbo - black ork warboss, Bigged's kicking boots, armour of gork eavy armour, shield - 234

L2 shaman horn of urgok - 125
L2 shaman nibla's itty ring, mad cao mushrooms (with black gobbo's unit) - 125
L2 shaman staff of sneaky stealin' - 135

33 NGs hw&shield, nets, standard, musician, 2 fanatics - 196 )inc black gobbo and shaman 2)
35 NGs hw&shield, nets, standard, musician, 2 fanatics - 202 (inc shaman 1)
35 NGs hw&shield, nets, standard, musician, 2 fanatics - 202 (inc shaman 3)

-The bulk of my gobbo horde. Nets to hopefully cause fewer strength, meaning my 5+ save might happen!, deployed 7x5? Also the BfSP gobbos (spears = handweapons conversion) plus an addition multi part box.

20 NGs bows, 1 fanatic - 85
20 NGs bows, 1 fanatic - 85
-BfSP bowmen, for the flanks, and fanatics to cause issues ;)

10 spiders - 130
10 spiders - 130
- in the BfSP box set, so i might as well use them, and they give me some speed to the list.

2 Spear Chukkas- 70

5 Squig herders - 150
5 Squig hoppers - 75

Doom diver - 80

3 trolls - 120

total - 2144, so essentially 150pts over...

There are many things that I could take out... but I'd rather keep the stuff that comes with the BfSP in, otherwise they're wasted models. Then again, is the second unit of spiders too much? Or have I overspent on magic items? Or too many squigs? hmmm....

Thankyou very much though!!

Bortus
10-11-2008, 10:34
Well speaking from experience NG armies are a lot of fun to play. If I could make a couple of suggestions. I would change the 2 Spider Rider units (if you really want to take them) into a unit of 15 and maybe consider a character in the unit. I have done this and it can be pretty effective and loads of fun. I would also drop the Squig Herders and keep the Hoppers but run a unit of about 8. Basically take one but not both unit types. Also do yourself a favor and bring back 1 Giant! They're awesome when they do what you need them to do and this army could sure use a terror causer. I like the Trolls although not everyones favorites I always take a unit and make them River Trolls! One last thing while visually impressive I would reconsider taking banners for your units. Gobbos are gonna die so use them more for Fanatic delivery and if they can win a battle by themselves then that's a bonus and not a constant. Hey all I know is what's worked for me and others may disagree and that's fine cuz what sounds good on paper can turn out to be a bit different on the battlefield. Gobbos are a fun army not an I'm gonna go win all my battles type so laugh when you win and laugh when you get whiped cuz both will happen. >:)

Jonik
11-11-2008, 09:08
Hmm a quick change for more war machines ;)

The Black Gobbo - black ork warboss, Bigged's kicking boots, armour of gork, collar of zorga, shield - 233

L2 shaman horn of urgok - 125
L2 shaman nibla's itty ring, mad cao mushrooms (with black gobbo's unit) - 125
L2 shaman staff of sneaky stealin' - 135

33 NGs hw&shield, nets, standard, musician, 2 fanatics - 196 )inc black gobbo and shaman 2)
35 NGs hw&shield, nets, standard, musician, 2 fanatics - 202 (inc shaman 1)
35 NGs hw&shield, nets, standard, musician, 2 fanatics - 202 (inc shaman 3)

-The bulk of my gobbo horde. Nets to hopefully cause fewer strength, meaning my 5+ save might happen!, deployed 7x5? Also the BfSP gobbos (spears = handweapons conversion) plus an addition multi part box.

20 NGs bows, 1 fanatic - 85
20 NGs bows, 1 fanatic - 85
-BfSP bowmen, for the flanks, and fanatics to cause issues

5 Spider riders - 65
5 Spider riders - 65
5 Spider riders - 65
- in the BfSP box set(-5), so i might as well use them, and they give me some speed to the list.

Rock lobba - 70
2 Spear Chukkas- 70
Spear chucka - 35
5 Squig hoppers - 75

Doom diver - 80
Doom Diver - 80

1993 pts - now with some hefty firepower, which I think will be more useful and slightly more fun than the 3 trolls (stupidity and getting shot at) and the squig herders (who just cost waaaay too much cash..!)

Have I shot myself in the foot by doing that?

Magx
11-11-2008, 15:41
Why do you insist of having units of NG with bows ? they only shoot at 8 inches and they relelease the fanatic(s) at 8 inches (a fanatic blocks line of sight if he don't pass through the unit). + they shoot average, so if you shoot againt a unit that is slightly better than them, it won't do anything.

Your first list was WAY better than the other two (in my opinions). the only thing you had to do in your first list is remove the two NG archers units and replace them with something better (some artillery maybe... more chukkas (more than 2)

and yes, Skarsnik is a really good idea!

Jonik
11-11-2008, 17:03
The NGs with bows is more to do with the fact they come with the BfSP set. And don't they have 16" bows? So at long range they're 5s to hit, which is still not bad...

As for my first list, is that because of the giants?

And as for skarsnik being a really good idea - is he a better idea to the black ork warboss (who's only 50pts more, but can really do some hitting power?) Then again its not like skarsnick can't do the hitting himself, and the extra speacial rules are rather nice. I especially like the idea of 4 (1+ 3 units) Prodder bound spell shots per magic phase ;) Add niblas itty ring to that, and 3 L2 shamans and I should have quite a potent magic phase!

You know... I think you're right about the giants and the bowmen. I'll have a re-think of my list. I just want to try and keep as much from skull pass in the list! So I think spider riders are back in...

-------------

Ok new list:

Skarsnick - 205
L2 shaman, horn of urgok - 125
L2 shaman - nibbla's itty ring mad cap mushrooms - 125
L2 shaman - staff of neaky ntealin' - 135

30 NGs, hw&s, musician, standard, nets, 2 fanatics (inc skarsnick and shaman 2)- 187
34 NGs, as above - 199
35 NGs, as above - 202
5 spider riders - 65
5 Spider riders - 65
5 Spider riders - 65

2 spear chuckas - 70
2 spear chuckas - 70
5 squig hoppers - 75

Giant - 205
Giant - 205

Total = 1998

I think the giants might be a better plan anyway, as I thought that rock lobbas/doom divers were indirect fire... LOS might be an issue for the 4 spear chucks I have, let alone with 3 rock lobbas too!

So, any better? Magic items ok?

Guy Fawkes
11-11-2008, 21:30
First off, I'd recommend a look at Avian's site: http://folk.ntnu.no/~tarjeia/avian/subpage.php?s=index_greenskin_tactics

He really knows what he's talking about.

I also believe that night goblins with bows are a waste. All your shooting should come from magic or artillery.

Finally, you need a way to deal with fear and panic. Any unit that runs can panic the whole army, so carefully plan deployment and strategy.

Other than that, good luck!

Bortus
12-11-2008, 03:43
Well you'll get it eventually. Leadership is a must and magic ain't what it used to be. A battle standard might be worth looking into. Bows are great when the fanatics come back at you! Ha, ha...I once broke a unit of marauders with an aspiring champion in it with bows and set it up for a nice charge eventually destroying the unit! It was fun and I was rolling great that day! Trolls cause fear and have the new regen. rule. I sometimes like throwing a character in there for stupidity tests which aren't that bad actually. Read everything on avians page, it's great.

Lord Dan
12-11-2008, 03:56
BSB with the big red raggedy banner works wonders

Jonik
12-11-2008, 10:44
I think I might have it this time...

Skarsnick - 205
L2 shaman, horn of urgok - 125
L2 shaman - nibbla's itty ring mad cap mushrooms - 125
L2 shaman - staff of neaky ntealin' - 135

I would consider taking a shaman out for a boss/BSB if it is viable, but which shaman to lose? And what to gain for the saim points?

31 NGs, hw&s, musician, standard, nets, 2 fanatics (inc skarsnick and shaman 2)- 190
35 NGs, as above - 202
35 NGs, as above - 202
5 spider riders - 65
5 Spider riders - 65
5 Spider riders - 65
I have a feeling bows might be a better idea?, Just need to find 15 points (ie -1 hopper in the 7 strong unit?)

2 spear chuckas - 70
2 spear chuckas - 70
6 squig hoppers - 90
7 Squig hoppers - 105

Doom Diver - 80
Giant - 205

Total = 1999

I think the doom diver might come in more useful than a second giant, as it can fire every turn, where as a canny player can avoid the giant if they want (plus my main opponent atm is 'sethela' wood elves...) That and the fact the 125 points it frees up allows another unit of squig hoppers!

The fanatics will not be 2 per unit every game, they'll move about within the units
to cause unease.

One thing that I've wondered about is where to put my characters - if they go in units and the unit squabbles, it's no magic phase for them right? But they no longer get protected from being close to a unit in 7th...

Also, are orc bullies worth it?

Thanks for the contiuing help... so many variations and contrasting tastes have meant this wasn't a simple as I first thought ;)

Magx
12-11-2008, 16:17
Bows are NEVER a good idea... for 15 points, you probably be better to put squig hoppers (if you have them) unless you were talking bows for Spider Riders, wich is not a bad thing

And yes, if your character is in a unit and squabble, he can't do magic (but still can generate dispel dice in case you wonder) but it's the gamble of playing O&G.

Putting a Doom Diver instead of a Giant is a really good idea... and it's not true that it will fire everyturn (a misfire can happen). And I think you should play some Squig Herders instead of 1 unit of Squig Hoppers.

I personnally prefer a shaman in your liste because you'll have more spells for your opponent to dispell and your bound spell will be tough to dispell because of that (and I like magic ;) ). And I don't think a BSB is really important in a gobelin army but maybe I'm wrong on this

and I'd remove 5 Spider Riders...

Jonik
12-11-2008, 17:11
I did mean bows on the spider riders.

So, above list:

-5 spider riders (-65)
+ 10 bows on spiders (+10)
-6 Squig hoppers (-90)
+5 herds of squigs (15 squigs, 10 herders)

Sound good?

Magx
12-11-2008, 18:10
Yes, it does! :)

Bortus
12-11-2008, 18:23
1. A unit of night gobbos w/short bows is only 60 pts.
2. Squigs are always a gamble whichever way you go but as I said before choose one or the other.
3. Because your creating only around 2000 pts. 2 giants are to expensive. 1 is great!
4. Oh and in case it happens to come up shortbows are free in exchange for thier shields.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
12-11-2008, 18:33
One word ends all in this case....BOO! And the dragon scares the whole army off the board ;) . Those lists would be fun to play with. Why no chariots? They are the only thing that goblins have that can do anything to any type of elves; minus the catapults.

Bortus
14-11-2008, 18:06
Well I believe what Jonik is trying to do here is to make him/her self a balanced list to play against whomever. This is fine. When I started out playing my first army was O&G and so what I have done over the years is to collect and paint up lots of different unit types so that I can try different lists depending on my mood or who I'll be playing against. With so many cool minis to paint I have always found it hard not want to ad something new or try something new on the battlefield. I have around 4000 pts. of O&G painted so I can have all the choices I want at any given time. Build what makes you happy Jonik and when you actually start playing your lists you'll find what works for you and what doesn't. Good luck! >:)

Bortus
14-11-2008, 18:18
Ok as a quick correction I just tallied my units not including magic items or anything just raw points per unit and I have roughly 4600 pts. of O&G! Hurray for me!!! >:)