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John Vaughan
11-11-2008, 03:20
The question is just that. Are they subject to change anytime soon? Im assuming not, considering that there is little on them, but just to be sure.

Eldramesha
11-11-2008, 03:22
They won't have a revision for a long time as far as I know. One of the safest in those terms though a hard race to play due to lack of ranked units and general paper strength defensive options.

Seth the Dark
11-11-2008, 04:03
But watch out for those Dryads! They have sharp branches!

RavenBloodwind
11-11-2008, 04:04
Safe?

As Eldramesha indicated, it'll be a long time before WE get a new army book so the miniatures aren't going to get outmoded to the point of being unplayable in the foreseeable future.

As to playability...they're a remarkably dynamic and fluid army which requires quite a bit of finesse to use effectively.

Additionally, there are a lot of builds which simply annoy the living hell out of your opponent so may make you a tad-bit unpopular if you continually push such a build.

Jolon
11-11-2008, 04:20
They definetely wont get rewritten for a long time.

Games Workshop trends alot less torward just removing units or writing them out of the book- you might get a rewrite that nerfs this or boosts that, but that -should- be it, wherein in contrast I am staring at two wood elf chariots gathering dust on my shelf.

(The Chaos shenanigans notwithstanding, of course..)

Condottiere
11-11-2008, 04:42
Probably, the models are lead-free, aren't they?

Daemonia
11-11-2008, 05:20
The only danger you have in fielding a Wood Elf army is the questioning of your sexuality.

Vandur Last
11-11-2008, 05:25
From what i understand thy are quite a powerful army. I wanst playing WHFB at the time, but i have heard it said that before the recent "cheesy/overpowered" lists (VC and Daemons), the Wood Elves used to be one of the scariest things to see on the other side of the table.

So they supposedly are in a strong position against most lists but might be battling uphill against the VC and Daemons. Then again, against VC and Daemons, who isnt? :P

snurl
11-11-2008, 05:27
Do not eat them, they may cause cavities.

The Red Scourge
11-11-2008, 05:57
The wood elves are really safe to play. Rumour has it that they won't get changed till 8th they're broken fine enough for 7th :cheese:

And don't worry about people cracking jokes on your sexuality noone ever called me 'straight' :D

BTW: I've massacred a lot of VCs with WE, against DoC the odds are against us, but the one thing that annoys me the most is not being able to put a dent in a steam tank :)

SilentTempest
11-11-2008, 07:05
Haven't heard about any upcoming Wood Elf revisions. At the very least it won't be in 2009, and probably not for a while after that. Most of the models were done with the last release in 6th (?) edition too, and are pretty good looking, so I wouldn't expect too many models to get replaced in their next revision anyway.

Daemonia
11-11-2008, 07:43
Their preening tree-hugging models are actually very well-made and their playstyle is fluid and effective. It doesn't strike me as easy but it's unique in the game and certainly makes them a bit different (and a challenge) from everything else. Power is certainly competetive...not dominant but not weak.

Putty
11-11-2008, 08:25
nothing is safe from gw.

Griefbringer
11-11-2008, 10:13
The current army book is from summer 2005.

And collecting an army of them might not be safe for your wallet.

SilentTempest
11-11-2008, 12:22
But what army IS safe on your wallet (besides Ogres with converted characters)?

At least WE have a low model count (although admittedly some pricey multi-piece metals (ie Treekin and Warhawks). Eternal Guard don't count because so few people actually care for them :P

TheLionReturns
11-11-2008, 12:26
I think WE are historically last in the release schedule or one of the last. That combined with the fact that the book is very well internally balanced means there really is no need to redo them any time soon. Eternal Guard have suffered with the recent boosting of elite infantry and there are a couple of kindreds that are pointless, but other than that every unit is viable. Also the models are some of the best in the WFB range and don't need updating so should be pretty safe to collect.

Power wise they are competitive. In the hands of a skilled player they can be very effective, hence the cries of cheese. I personally prefer to think of cheese as powerful combos that take little thought to use, so don't count WE as this. Either way, with the advent of the more powerful recent lists (ie VC and DoC) I think WE fit into the middle tier power wise. They do take a while to master however, as they are very fragile and unforgiving if you declare a bad charge. I think they will stay competitive up until they are redone simply because in WFB movement is key and WE are one of the most mobile armies out there.

There are a couple of lists that may irritate opponents. One is 2 treemen with a BSB, the other is one that is dominated by warhawk riders and glade riders, which focuses on shooting and staying out of combat. Avoid these extremes and any whining is unjustified IMO. In fact WE are no different from any other army really in that there are a couple of builds that are no fun.

Kahadras
11-11-2008, 13:26
At least WE have a low model count (although admittedly some pricey multi-piece metals (ie Treekin and Warhawks).

Wood elves are perfect for people on a budget. I've seen one army where the guy really managed to keep things to a minimum. He used Glade Riders as Wild Riders, created his leaders from his excess Glade Guard and modeled his Treekin and Treemen from wood. The army still looked fantastic and cost him less than 100.

Kahadras

Killgore
11-11-2008, 13:46
Wood Elfs are a fine army and i cant see them being changed for a long time

The list is useable and still competitive, with many different army builds available (spirit lists, shooting, fast etc) and the models are still fantastic


if you do manage to annoy your oponunt to the edges of madness theres always new methods to discover to annoy him even more!

Anaris
11-11-2008, 14:00
Yeah, they are perfectly safe to collect and a fun army to use. They are my favourite anyway.

Currently running with an all elven list, no forest spirits at all and it's a nice challenge.

The Red Scourge
11-11-2008, 14:37
When it comes to budget. Buying one of the GW woods, is a cheap way of getting a couple of treemen. You should be able to find a couple of pictures in the hobby section :)

Emeraldw
11-11-2008, 14:51
if you do manage to annoy your oponunt to the edges of madness theres always new methods to discover to annoy him even more!

It's so true. Even if you don't win, you can annoy your opponent to such an extent that it feels like a win :D

I haven't done it yet, but I am tempted to try out a 3x Glade rider, Warhawks with 2 treemen and a Dragon list. Crazy fast with 2 almost unkillable guys in the center. I'm sure I'll lose friends though.

My friends don't always look forward to my wood elves and generally moan about how they hate fighting them.

Elves All The Way
12-11-2008, 09:53
wood elves are safe but hard, your screwed if you don't know how to use them but one of the deadliest teams if you do

malisteen
12-11-2008, 20:30
Wood elves are a great army. I highly reccomend them. Points in their favor:

A) Their rules are not due for revision for quite some time.

B) Virtually their entire model range was redone with their last codex, leaving you with good looking, up to date models for whatever you want to field.

C) Virtually everything in the army list is good. Sure the scouts, warhawks, and waywatchers are a bit iffy atm, but even they're not all that bad, and can be worked into a winning strategy (so long as you don't base your entire army off of them).

D) Just as important as C, almost everything in the Wood Elf army likes working with almost anything else in the wood elf army. There's a lot of built in redundancy in the wood elf lists, and the various units compliment each other in almost any configuration. Many factions reward picking a particular sub-specialty and punish you for using units that don't fit into it. With wood elves you can generally get whatever units you like and still end up with a playable army that works well. I was surprised with how well they complemented my 'little bit of everything' collecting style. Of course, if you want a highly specialized army, they work with that too (I hear forest spirits have a reputation on the tournament scene for being one of 'those' armies).


Of course, there is the wood elf learning curve.

Wood elves have a distinctive playstyle focusing largely on combined melee charges supported by harassing light arms fire, with maneuverability throughout. It's not something you'll find in other armies, so it takes some time to get used to. Cut the enemy's archers and fast cav down with ranged fire and use a combination of march blocking and charge baiting (either with light cav that can flee or one of the WE's few units that can take a charge and live) to separate the elements of their battle line. Then take them apart with combined charges from your powerful melee units. Takes practice to get the hang of, and the fine details will vary according to your individual army makeup.

In any event, positioning is very important in Warhammer Fantasy, and while wood elves tend to lack in pure speed, they're almost unmatched in overall maneuverability (really only certain bret builds can beat them at this game). This is the real advantage of wood elves, and once you learn to control the flow of battle you'll find them a highly effective force to play with. Not that they don't have their weaknesses! Heavy magic and the aformentioned bret list come to mind, but I'm rambling now, so....




Ah wood elves, I do miss you. Why did I ditch you for vampire counts again? Oh, yeah. Skeletons are faster to paint then archers. -_-

FigureFour
12-11-2008, 20:39
But watch out for those Dryads! They have sharp branches!
This is true. I have drawn blood trying to assemble Dryads before, and not with a misplaced hobby knife either.

The only danger you have in fielding a Wood Elf army is the questioning of your sexuality.
My desire to play one of the few armies containing female models makes me gay?

malisteen
12-11-2008, 20:50
Nah, elves in general throughout fantasy typically have an androgynous aesthetic going (lean, males lacking facial and body hair, females generally having small breasts & hips, all elves uniformly graceful & whathaveyou). They are also frequently described as 'on the decline', despite usually being superior to other fantasy races in all things (especially the category of cheating... I mean, magic); all in deference to the archetypal Tolkein set up. This combination of cliche traits leads almost unavoidably to certain jokes about why the elven race is always on the decline in every fantasy setting, despite their individual superiority.


Wood elves add onto it with the 'dirty hippie tree-hugging pacifist vegetarian' image, even though the image really doesn't match their fluff at all, especially their current gen fluff, which is pretty dark.

Anyway.

loveless
12-11-2008, 20:54
My desire to play one of the few armies containing female models makes me gay?

Homosexual? No. It's the vast number of tree-people that brings up the question of dendrophilia http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Dendrophilia_%28paraphilia%29 .

shakespear
13-11-2008, 02:12
I was going to ask this same question.

What about their army box? Is it worth it or should I spend the money on other stuff

Jolon
13-11-2008, 02:19
Everything in the army box is worth using- Wood Elf core is really some of the better core, and the only issue with the box is the unit sizes arent optimal, but thats the same with the individual unit boxes.

nothing I wouldent recommend using.

Daemonia
13-11-2008, 02:22
Homosexual? No. It's the vast number of tree-people that brings up the question of dendrophilia http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Dendrophilia_%28paraphilia%29 .

Indeed. I put forth that the reason the Elf race is in decline is that their love of each other in a normal fashion has been put aside for a love of nature. A real love of nature.

John Vaughan
13-11-2008, 03:49
My only question now is this: Eternal Guard? They seem rather misplaced, as they are the only WE unit likely to get a couple rank bonuses, and could even possibly win a fight. How do they work on the table?

An idea of a unit that I want to have is 9 Waywatchers with a Waywatcher Noble with the bow of "I-fire-three-times-without-multiple-shot-penalty." Thats a lot of killing blow shots, compared to what most armies can put forth.

And what about magic? Their lore isnt exactly the best, but I know it can be used well. How many casters? What about a lvl 4? I was thinking that that might be a bit useless...

Last question: BSB. Should I take one? I dont have the army book yet, but I have scanned through most of it, and havent found any real nasty combos with a bsb. Whats your take on him?

Thank you all!

loveless
13-11-2008, 03:53
Nasty Wood Elf BSB Combo.

Treeman (Ancient)
BSB
Treeman

Tree surf forward to taste.

Emeraldw
13-11-2008, 04:20
My only question now is this: Eternal Guard? They seem rather misplaced, as they are the only WE unit likely to get a couple rank bonuses, and could even possibly win a fight. How do they work on the table?

They are ok, but honestly they aren't that great. They have a lot of attacks at WS5 and can be made stubborn and are core with a Highborn. I've heard good things about EG based armies but I'm not a fan of them as I prefer the faster moving units and while they do get 2 attacks each and the back rank (so 15 attacks!) It is still Str 3, T3 with a 5+ save so they die in droves if your not careful. I don't use them much as I usually would rather put points into something else but they aren't bad.



An idea of a unit that I want to have is 9 Waywatchers with a Waywatcher Noble with the bow of "I-fire-three-times-without-multiple-shot-penalty." Thats a lot of killing blow shots, compared to what most armies can put forth.


Waywatchers lose Killing blow when firing a magic bow. However you can use arcane bodkins with it which ignores armor saves or a hail of doom arrow. Though scout kin is cheaper and does almost the same thing, or use an alter kindred.



And what about magic? Their lore isnt exactly the best, but I know it can be used well. How many casters? What about a lvl 4? I was thinking that that might be a bit useless...


I run a lord caster with a reroll dispel dice wand on an eagle with a branchwriath lvl 1 wizard with the +1 dispel dice spite. This gives me 6 rerollable dispel dice for magic defense and the Lord Caster (only Lord casters) can take the Life or even better, the beast lore. Which works wonders for taking out those units that wood elves have trouble against (like a dragon or heavy cav).



Last question: BSB. Should I take one? I dont have the army book yet, but I have scanned through most of it, and havent found any real nasty combos with a bsb. Whats your take on him?

Thank you all!

A BSB is not necessary usually as your supposed to win on the charge. If your taking break tests then your doing something wrong with Wood Elves. Very rarely will you charge when you aren't sure you'll win.

However a BSB when combined with 2 Treemen is brutal since they are stubborn. T6, 3+, 5++ is hard to get rid of and they hit hard. I've just whittled down units just using him and a BSB makes it much harder for them to break.

Anaris
13-11-2008, 11:02
I've had plenty of success with the following setup of Lord + Eternal Guard.

Lord with Bow of Loren, Arcane Bodkins, Amber Pendent, GW, LA + Shield
24 Eternal Guard with FC and a Banner or Springtide

More often of not my opponents tend to see that unit and know they will ride it down with some heavy cavalry or some other fast moving, hard hitting unit and so make a bee-line for it (it is almost a 1/4 of my force in points in one unit).

However, due to the combined shooting from the lord and the rest of the army, they don't usually make it intact and even when they do charge (after yet another 4 shot no-amour save volley), you've got a 3 models (those in bsb with my lord) going last and a whole bunch of Eternal Guard striking before them.

Should they lose, their stubborn.

The strategy has it's flaws without a doubt, but giving that Eternal Guard are supposed to be bodyguards, it's also a nice fluffy strategy as well. Besides, what else you going to use in a WE army that doesn't allow itself to take Forest Spirits.

TheLionReturns
13-11-2008, 12:10
My only question now is this: Eternal Guard? They seem rather misplaced, as they are the only WE unit likely to get a couple rank bonuses, and could even possibly win a fight. How do they work on the table?

Eternal Guard are shunned by a lot of WE players. Some will say being a ranked unit they don't fit into the WE playstyle. Being a ranked unit they are slower than most of the army and WE general often find them left behind the main force. Also they are a comparatively large points investment by WE standards considering the normal MSU style.

Others will say that for all their stubborn and eternal guard fighting style they are still T3 elves that will die quickly. They have got comparably worse with the release of new elite infantry like the Black Guard for example, and look a touch overpriced for what they do now.

That said I believe they can have a place in a WE army. Put a noble in and they are a fine anvil unit (even better if he is a BSB or the BSB is close), although always be wary of autobreaking due to fear (items and spites can help here). Whilst the WE way is about outmanoeuvring your opponent and combo charging, it is never a bad thing to have a unit that can take a charge. I use a unit of 18 and like to have them as they provide me with something different so I have more options.

An alternative option is to field them as smaller detachments where they can perform a flanking role. The large number of skirmishers in a WE army means they are at times short of decent flanking units. Glade Riders are a risk because of their vulnerability whilst Treekin are expensive for the role. Wild Riders excel in this role, but small units of eternal guard provide a cheaper alternative for a more infantry based list. Remember that because of the numbers of Eternal Guard units you would have in this style having a Highborn as general is probably wise.

Overall Eternal Guard lose out because the treeman does the anvil job better. A solid core battle line of Eternal Guard containing a BSB flanked by 2 treemen is going to be hard for any opponent to break, so the two are not mutually exclusive, just depends on the style you wish to follow.




An idea of a unit that I want to have is 9 Waywatchers with a Waywatcher Noble with the bow of "I-fire-three-times-without-multiple-shot-penalty." Thats a lot of killing blow shots, compared to what most armies can put forth.

Not much to add here as it has already been mentioned that killing blow can't be used with the Bow of Loren. IMO waywatchers are generally a psychological tool. They have a killing blow zone where lone characters and mounted characters fear to stray. Larger units like the one your suggest are a heavy points investment but they also become a genuine anti-armour threat. I personally prefer smaller units of 5 or 6 due to the heavy points investment in a larger unit but I very rarely leave home without them.


And what about magic? Their lore isnt exactly the best, but I know it can be used well. How many casters? What about a lvl 4? I was thinking that that might be a bit useless...

The lore of athel loren is one of the more supporting type lores rather than a direct damage one. Some of the spells are useful, but I don't really think magic heavy is a particularly useful investment considering the points you pay for it. You get a lot of dryads for the price of a heavy magic presence for example. I tend to go magic light, a choice partly informed by the fact that WE are very good at Active Magic Defense (ie mage hunting). However, I am having to rethink slightly as mages seem to be getting tougher (daemons, VC, WoC).

One useful build is to try and get a solid treesinging phase. Treeman ancients bound treesinging and items like calingors stave and the deepwood sphere on one or more spellsinger can help here. As I think I have mentioned before movement is vital in WFB and particularly for vulnerable armies like WE's. Being able to move terrain around messes with your enemy's line of sight and their own manoeuvrability so can be very useful in a WE army. In fact many successful WE armies have treesinging as a key part of their strategy.


Last question: BSB. Should I take one? I dont have the army book yet, but I have scanned through most of it, and havent found any real nasty combos with a bsb. Whats your take on him?


Very useful if you have a normal treeman or eternal guard. Treeman Ancient can probably manage without. WE are more about picking their fights and only those they can win so it is less useful than other armies. Still I would recommned one if you are using anvil units and intend for them to be a key part of your strategy. Part of the problem is that WE can really make a lot of interesting characters and there are so many tempting builds other than the BSB. For me the jury is out on a BSB, but I always take one if I am fielding Eternal Guard, after all I need a noble with them to make them stubborn anyway.

As for interesting combos, you are right they are hard to find. If used in Eternal Guard it is important he survives. Not only is he the BSB and brings the associated benefits and VP, but it is the BSB that makes the unit stubborn. As a result some form of protection is useful. Perhaps one of the oaken armour or the amaranthine brooch. Alternatively you can give him the amber pendent and hope he kills off enough enemies first to minimise incoming attacks.

My suggestions would be either Amaranthine Brooch and Gwythercs Horn, or Amber Pendent and Gwythercs horn, depeding on how strong an enemy you are expecting to take a charge from. Gwythercs horn can make a unit immune to psychology for the turn, useful if trying to hold against those fear causing enemies like undead.

As for the banners the Royal Standard of Ariel is very nice but a lot of points, leaving your BSB very vulnerable. Of couse if you take a magic banner you can take a spite too so having an annoyance of netlings on your BSB is possible for protection. Does nothing to save you from rank and file attacks though.

John Vaughan
14-11-2008, 05:08
I borrowed the book from a friend, so I have it to access.

Expanding on the Waywatcher Noble, I think it would be way fun to equip him with a Briarsheath, which means in all the opponent would have a -4 penalty for shooting at him if hes in the free wood I get as a WE player. I just like the idea of an unhittable character shooting something fun, like Arcane Bodkins. Another idea I had for him was to give him the Horn of Asrai, and make a unit or two charge him, and have him flee and get the enemy unit stuck in the trees to get pummeled by tree magic.

I think as far as magic goes, I want 2 lvl two singers. One will be equipped with a divination orb and A Befuddlement of Mischiefs, and the other with The Deepwood Sphere and a dispel scroll. It gives a little bit of magical bang, as well as a better amount of protection.

I know I want a Treeman in there, I just dont know whether or not I want it to be an ancient. As of right now, I dont know where my Lord choice in 2000 pts will go.

As I mentioned before, I want a Waywatcher Lord to bother the daylights out of the enemies ranks.

What about a lord choice? I have heard that there are some nasty Dragon-riding combos, or do I want a versatile lord on foot? Or do I want an ancient?

The Red Scourge
14-11-2008, 05:46
Expanding on the Waywatcher Noble, I think it would be way fun to equip him with a Briarsheath, which means in all the opponent would have a -4 penalty for shooting at him if hes in the free wood I get as a WE player. I just like the idea of an unhittable character shooting something fun, like Arcane Bodkins. Another idea I had for him was to give him the Horn of Asrai, and make a unit or two charge him, and have him flee and get the enemy unit stuck in the trees to get pummeled by tree magic.

You should give the kindred section another look then. Waywatchers can't wear armor, so no Briarsheath.

For more info on using WE. Head over to asrai.org :)

John Vaughan
21-11-2008, 05:36
Thanks for the link! My bad on the briarsheath. I kinda noticed that later.

A new fun idea: Highborn, Alter Kindred, Bow of Loren, briarsheath, and Arcane Bodkins His job is to run around looking for armored targets like knights and such, unleashing 5 arrows at BS 6, while having a minimum of -2 to hit him. It sounds like fun to me. What do you think?

The Red Scourge
21-11-2008, 07:19
I say. D6 S4 magic missiles will give me 250 VP ;)

You won't see many kindreds beyond the Alter in a WE army. The only other one in regular use is the Wardancer. The highborn is generally frowned upon as the least effective lord choice. More often people will use a Spellweaver for some magic defense and a lot of treesinging or just go with the Ancient where you basically get a lord for 90 pts since you'd already field a treeman.

In general you shouldn't spend too much on your characters in a WE army. They are too soft for their price, while the regular troops are fantastic. Use them to support your troops and make up for their shortcomings like providing S6 attacks, blocking LOS with treesinging etc. They should be as expendable as the rest of your army, and an extra unit will in most cases do more damage than a character.