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Helsing
16-11-2008, 23:39
Did the Space Wolves have any successor chapters other than the Wolf Brothers? I remember reading about the Grimm chapter and Loki Ragnarok from an ancient WD.

Orca
17-11-2008, 01:19
I thought that Space wolves didn't really do successor chapters, but instead just added "grand companies" to the original Space Wolves. Hence the justification for their own codex.

kamedake88
17-11-2008, 01:32
None reported. To the second poster, The space Wolves have been at 13 great companies since the time of the great crusade. The Wolf Brothers all mutated due to the wolfen curse If I remember.

Orca
17-11-2008, 01:52
Thanks for that bit of information. Am I recalling correctly that those 13 companies act like we'd expect independant chapters to, with the exception of being based on the SW homeworld?

Lionsbane
17-11-2008, 01:54
It is unclear if the Wolf Brothers were really a successor chapter or not. There are no good records and they are listed as disbanded due to genetic mutation. It is possible that the 13th Company was listed as the Wolf Brothers to avoid splitting the Legion.

Note that the Space Wolves do have successor armies. They are however called Lost Companies. Companies whose Wolf Lords have chosen for one reason or another not to return to the Fang. Weather it be because they do not wish to follow the current Great Wolf, have recanted their oathes of fealty, or are simply too far from home to return in a timely manner.

Grubnar
17-11-2008, 06:46
Thanks for that bit of information. Am I recalling correctly that those 13 companies act like we'd expect independant chapters to, with the exception of being based on the SW homeworld?

No. Unlike codex chapters that number 10 companys, each 100 marines strong there is no fixed size for a Space Wolf company. It may be smaller than 100 marines or considerably larger. It all depends on many variables.

Each space wolf company is greatly influenced by its wolf lord (the title is like that of company captain in other chapters). So they are all at least a bit different.

Nobody knows just how many space wolfs there are in existance (except for maybe the space wolfs themself). There may be just 2.000 - 3.000 or they may be 10.000 - 20.000, it is difficult to guess since they do not consider it to be anyones buissness. The very fact that the space wolfs are considerably larger than "normal" space marine chapters has made some important people very nervous over the centuries.

Koryphaus
17-11-2008, 09:53
Well, given they are still called Great Companies, I'd assume there are considerably more than 100 marines in each.. I know SW was never the largest legion, but they were massive compared to modern day chapters.

TheBigBadWolf
17-11-2008, 11:20
The space wolves had only one second founding chapter,

the Wolf Brothers its in 3rd edition codex :)

Col. Tartleton
17-11-2008, 22:09
A great company is generally put at around 300 with upper estimates at 500.

Undoubtedly the chapter is several thousand strong but less than the BT who are at 5-7,000 strong range.

I'm gonna say a great company is made up of roughly this breakdown:


Blood Claws:120
Grey Hunters:80
Long Fangs:30
Wolf Guard:20
Scouts:20
Drivers: 30

So 12x300=6000

Plus the additional staff to the Great Wolf's company is probably a few hundred extra.

The 13th set out with at least a thousand men. So there's probably a few hundred left.


A lost company that prospered could theoretically form its own mini chapter since it numbered several hundred at the start. I'd say there are 3-5 lost companies that number a few hundred each up to a roughly codex chapter if well led and with proper resources.

I'd say a company or two have fallen to chaos over the millenia as well, but they're probably only a hundred men strong or less.

Maidel
17-11-2008, 22:14
You cant assume that - although that is one possiblity for the size of a great company - there is much logical debate that they must approach the size of a normal chapter on the grounds that its hard to act as and independant army if you only have 300 troops.

Many people who havent thought it through put the size of a great company at 120.

May space wolf 'fanz' put the average size of a great company at 1000 marines.


For me - they never changed from when they were a legion. Back when legions were legions 'grand companies' were 400-600 men strong + support. So for me, that makes the most sense for the size of the current great companies - anything else is to imply they listened to papa smurf and changed their organisation.

Phoebus
17-11-2008, 22:57
Col. Tarleton,

12 Great Companies x 300 Marines each... equals only 3,600 Space Wolves. ;)

Maidel,

I dunno. I always figured the Grand Companies were larger than that back then. Then again, I have always taken "company" in the 40k world to be representative of the old mercenary term... that is, a "company" being an independent unit of action, largely self-sustainable in the field. Furthermore, I've also thought of it in the Rennaissance era way... with each "company" potentially numbering in the thousands.

I'm sure Legions varied by size--and therefore the size and number of their Great Companies, as well--but I can't reconcile with the idea that most of the old Legions only numbered between a few thousand men. That's just me, though! :)

Maidel
17-11-2008, 23:04
I dunno. I always figured the Grand Companies were larger than that back then.


Its in one of the horus hersey books, although for the life of me dont ask which one!

Phoebus
17-11-2008, 23:28
I'll look over them some time. I'm pretty sure it was one of the first two--for the Luna Wolves, IIRC. Good call! :)