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SabaLoth
17-11-2008, 08:33
A game yesterday brought us to some problems involving the above.

Situation: high elf boltthrower on top of tower(GW watchtower), cannon fires lands in front of the building and bounces through the building.

BRB states: autohit weapons(templates and stuff) inflict d6 hits against the unit inside buildings.

Since they are on top they aren't hit:wtf:? my opponent stated that a cannonball cannot bounce that high up again.

What happens according to you? we came up with a improvised rule later in the evening, but i'll post that after what you think happens.

Crymson
17-11-2008, 09:19
Inside of/ on top = the same to me. I see it more not as the cannon ball actually hitting the units, but the cannonball hitting the structure, which in turn cause the structure to shake violently, causing injury to those within or on to of. Think of it like an earthquake; if the building is shaking and you are standing on top of it, you may just fall off...

Archon.42
17-11-2008, 09:24
i think that the RAI of "within the building" is that the unit is withing the area of the building
think with the current GW trees, they dont cover all of your models but you use the whole tree to get shooting modifiers
thats my juice
.42

DeathlessDraich
17-11-2008, 09:40
1) Is this a Siege or a normal pitchbattle?

In a pitchbattle units are only placed *in* a building.

Flayerkin, Yhetees etc - some agreemnt has to be reached on their movement through buildings, if occupied etc.

2) If you have allowed deployment on *top* of a building, e.g. as part of a scenario, you should also have discussed and mutually agreed on:
LOS, charges and combat against/by the unit and shooting penalties/bonuses against the unit.

I would suggest:
1) LOS - same as being on top of a hill i.e. shoot in 2 ranks etc
2) Charges - same as Buildings when charged - the warmachine crew has to move down to deal with the chargers. The machine is left behind if they flee.
Same as being on a hill when charging.

3) Shooting - Treat as being on a hill, i.e no -3 penalty since there is no cover.

Griefbringer
17-11-2008, 09:41
Inside of/ on top = the same to me.

I agree.

On a quick glance at the building rules, I could not find any mention of a unit being able to be on top of a building, instead of inside it.

Gazak Blacktoof
17-11-2008, 09:46
I also don't think its possible to place a warmachine in or on a building unless you're defending in a siege game.

SabaLoth
17-11-2008, 09:46
My opinion exactly!

But since D6 cannonball hits would be a bit over the top(S10 D6 wounds)so we came up with the following rule for cannons and buildings(not sure if its on top/inside though):

Buildings have the toughness and wounds of brb 6th edition, if building is wounded, unit gets D6 str 5 hits and always panic test(building shaking is quite scary).

we thought it as a good improvised house rule

DeathlessDraich
17-11-2008, 09:58
One more comment::)

If this is indeed a pitch battle, then the deployment is illegal

Only infantry can enter a building. Warmachines are disallowed

Braad
17-11-2008, 11:45
There are no specific rules anyway, for stuff on top of a building, or on a hill/rock/whatever anyway.
For simplicity I would say, stick to the straight line, everything is hit on that line. The rules don't say anything else.

The only houserule I could think of regarding this, is that when you shoot at such a thing you declare at what level you're shooting and only hit stuff on that level. Otherwise it is really going to be very difficult...

SabaLoth
17-11-2008, 14:11
Thanks for the update, indeed only inf can enter buildings in pitched battle.

Now only to convince my opponent that on top is inside the building!!

EvC
17-11-2008, 14:22
There were rules in a recent White Dwarf for deploying warmachines on top of a watchtower. However they are not in the building, so if struck by a cannon, then just resolve it asa normal cannon shot on the ground.

Shamfrit
17-11-2008, 14:25
I'd go with drawing a line through the crew to show the angle of the shot you wish to take and resolve it, like EvC said, as a normal shot.

It's perfectly possible to elevate the shot of the cannon's barrel. Like a bolt thrower, or a Warp Lightning Cannon etc.

theunwantedbeing
17-11-2008, 14:54
I think the easy option is to count a cannon on a building as you would if it were on a hill.
You just gain a bit of extra protection from the ramparts if the building has them.

A cannon inside a building is certainly much harder to hit than one on a building (as you have to shoot through windows rather than just raining arrows from above). Not to mention artillery hits are going to hit the thing directly, rather than cause all sorts of mess and flying debris inside the building.

Deploying inside a building seems alright though, even if the thing cannot actually move out of the building during the battle.
Seems fair that in game rules are just in game, outside of the game there are no real rules anymore.

Gazak Blacktoof
17-11-2008, 15:10
I'd support that, nothing wrong with dragigng your gun into a building before the game starts so long as your opponent agrees. Man-handling a cannon outside mid-battle is probably too difficult though. Its one of those grey-areas people should house rule for and just do what feels right.

Shamfrit
17-11-2008, 15:15
Or not be silly enough to put a building in a deployment zone in the first place :skull:

(Has horrid recollection of Waywatchers...)

EvC
17-11-2008, 15:20
Nah, you can't put a warmachine inside a building, that's not in the rules, thankfully.