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View Full Version : what big changes do u want to see with eldar codex



damz451
21-11-2005, 22:41
seing how eldar are one of the 1st armies in 40k they seem somewhat neglected compared to all the other races, with the new codex comnig out sumtime next year what changes do u really want to see?

for me its to have dark eldar warriors to be given assualt weapons rather than rapid fire weapons so they can shoot and assualt since thats their way of fighting, also a str 9 or 10 weapon to kill a dam monoloth!.

plastic wraithguard so u dnt have to spend 70 for a unit of 10 models :|

anything else you think should be done?

themagister
21-11-2005, 23:14
i think that a little more backround would do. i collected those for a while. an ranger force. i got alot of them froma friend, but then i shelled out some major cash for the bulk of my rangers. more ranger info would be great, and a little more info about wild rider chieftans. i sold it all to some punk kid who sucked at painting and only got about three fourths of my money back. plasti ranger boxes would be nice.

Kahadras
21-11-2005, 23:49
Aligning the rules with the fluff. Why do normal Eldar craftworlds get better access to Wraithlords than Iyandan? It makes no sense. Plus rules like the holofields and sustained assault need to be tweaked. Some units just need to be rethought and the codex generaly needs a lot more balance in it.

Kahadras

WanderingRogue
21-11-2005, 23:49
a toning down of the ulthwe army!! is it a suprise that they usually win the gt heats. counted 6 on the top 6 tables at heat 3!

but seriously, i know the ethos of an eldar army is that certain units specialise therefore you need to use em in tandem with others but certain units are maybe too specialised to the point no one uses em - im thinking swooping hawks + the jet bike guys primarily. I think maybe what the eldar needs is some balance and some way to talor the army with out every one comming to the same 2 or three conclusions on "what makes a good competitive eldar army"

you ask a guard player that question you'll get various comments and probably a good discussion and arguments.

ask and eldar player and you'll probably get: ulthwe, alaitoc or somthing involving lots of star cannons/and or wraithlords (in that order). alot of the other troops in the army may get advocates of their usefullness -but (and this is what im bassing my comment on) if that the case why are all sucsessfull eldar armys at tournaments the same?

rant over.


oh plus id like rending on maybe the heavier shuriken weapons - its a very fluffy way of using thier unique tech: plus maybe a few more wargear options. (oh and new scorpion models)

g

Marikano
22-11-2005, 00:38
Make the Avatar into the elite beast the story seems to say he is.

Do away with grav weapon platforms and dreadnoughts too. Neither ever really fit into the eldar theme anyways.

Spell_of_Destruction
22-11-2005, 00:47
Maybe you should have dug up the massive "Eldar wish list" thread.

The army need a rethink and I would personally like to see a movement away from the "Eldar Guard" idea that the current codex tried to emphasize in favour of a more specialised force focusing on aspect warriors.

It's a pretty messy codex with a lot of useless and pointless stuff.

Spleendokta
22-11-2005, 02:30
seing how eldar are one of the 1st armies in 40k they seem somewhat neglected compared to all the other races...

Its been too many years since the RT days, but if I recall it was marines and orks. Then eldar came in to the picture. Of course with my old age I could have it backwards *grin*.

Like the other poster said. Eldar are usually one of the top tourny armies. Looks to me like they are just fine the way they are. Lets look at Orks in past year or so tournies... *hears crickets chirp* So who is in more need of a new codex? hrm I think your right, Eldar.

Colonial Rifle
22-11-2005, 09:56
It's a pretty messy codex with a lot of useless and pointless stuff.

Agreed. This codex needs to be rebuilt from the ground up with each unit having a serious re-evaluation of their function. In particular, the function of guardians and all the Eldar weapons needs to be revised.

No Gav either. ;)

lord_blackfang
22-11-2005, 13:23
Oh look, this old topic again...

I'd like to see a special rule that somehow penalizes Eldar players for whining about how underpowered their Codex is or how beardy the opponent's Codex or army list is.

The Folly of Arrogance: Most Eldar consider themselves superior to all other races in the galaxy; if their commander suggests otherwise, the shock can leave them stunned and confused.
Every time an Eldar player complains about his or his opponent's army list or Codex during the game, he must take a Pinning check for each of his units, even Fearless ones.

Helicon_One
22-11-2005, 14:15
Put the Aspect Warriors and especially the Dire Avengers back to the core of the army where they belong, and shove the Guardians to a role of supporting the professional soldiers, rather than making up the entire army on their own.

Make the Farseer more psychic, and more of a big girl's blouse in a fight (and I know he's not exactly awesome in combat right now).

General re-tweaking to balance the various heavy weapons, so there's at least some decision making to be done rather than "how many starcannons can I afford?"

Avatar pricier but fightier.

Better Shuricat (we've had the argument over how to change it before, no need to start it again...)

More customisable Wraithlord.

More wargear.

Lasrifle option for Guardians.

Tim

marv335
22-11-2005, 14:45
avatar to have DP level stats and abilities (with similar points)
more emphasis on guardians less on aspect warriors.
wraithlord to be returned to its dreadnaught roots (give it back its av)

Wraithbored
22-11-2005, 18:20
avatar to have DP level stats and abilities (with similar points)
more emphasis on guardians less on aspect warriors.
wraithlord to be returned to its dreadnaught roots (give it back its av)
Yes of course let us send civilians instead of trained troops into battle! Same should be with SM's , SERVITOR ARMIES and power armourless initiates(basicaly your angsty feral world teenager)! :rolleyes:

Karhedron
22-11-2005, 18:32
The Eldar codex is still fairly competative but it has three problems to my mind.

1. Some units are almost never take (Jetbikes) whilst others are practically must-haves (Wraithlords).
2. Bland and limited compared to newer codices.
3. Certain units violate the fluff in ways that are illegal in most countries. :eek: (hordes of Guardians with tin foil armour who can run further than they shoot spring to mind)

I don't think that the Eldar list needs many new units or loads of special new rules, what it needs is a substantial polis so that the units fit the fluff and the 30% of units you never see become worth fielding. Here are my thoughts on what needs doing.

Psychics: Farseers and Warlocks are supposed to be powerful psykers but have a very limited selection of powers and wargear. Bring these guys up to par with other 4th edition psykers and give Farseers something decent to counter enemy psykers. The Imperium has a monopoly on psychic hoods at the moment.
Fix shurican catapults. Give this thing some decent range. Then you wouldn't have to stand your fragile troops right in the enemy's face to shoot at them.
Smaller squads of Guardians. 20-man units should really be Ulthwe only, it just doesn't fit the fluff for a dying race to field units of cannon fodder.
Better jetbikes. Nuff said.
Give the Avatar the stats and the points cost of a greater daemon.
The army really should be focussed on the Aspect Warriors with Guardians in support (as it was in 1st and 2nd editions). But failing that, make sure they keep the Swordwind variant list in place.
Some slightly more interesting wargear lists would be nice.

Robot 2000
22-11-2005, 18:40
One idea I thought of to make the Wraithlord fit in with the "fast and fragile" thing the eldar have going (which a T8 monstrous creature certainly doesn't) would be to give it fleet of foot. Then you could downgrade the toughness to something sensible without hitting its chances of survival too hard.

Helicon_One
22-11-2005, 20:32
One idea I thought of to make the Wraithlord fit in with the "fast and fragile" thing the eldar have going (which a T8 monstrous creature certainly doesn't) would be to give it fleet of foot.

Actually, I'd rather go the other way with the WL (and WG). Drop its initiative or give it true power fists so it strikes last anyway, or even make it Slow And Purposeful.

The Eldar are distinctly uneasy with the idea of disturbing their ancestors and implanting them into Wraith-constructs, making them operate very differently on the battlefield helps to emphasise this.

Tim

lockmaster55
22-11-2005, 20:45
Points i would say:
Dire avengers take more of a pinicle role in the army, and guardians less so, although a core militia still part of the armies idea
jetbikes...
I wonder how 'overpowered' wraithlord are. People take them becase they are one of the few good units in the codex, in my experience people rarely have a problem dealing with them, indeed against tau they can be mince meat. A small points increase would help, but no more that 10-15
Dark reapers get a 3+ save...
Avatar...
Rubbish units like swooping hawks, shining spears, fire prisms etc. fixed
Psychics to be made the best in 40k, where they should be, as EVERY eldar has the ability to become one, not just a few freaks like the imperium.
Wriathguard fixed to reflect their fluff, they arn't goning to throw away spirit stones in a brittle piece of &$£$
Catapult fixed, it currently sucks.
More than 4 pieces of wargear...

Lafeel Abriel
22-11-2005, 21:25
Oh look, this old topic again...

I'd like to see a special rule that somehow penalizes Eldar players for whining about how underpowered their Codex is or how beardy the opponent's Codex or army list is.

The Folly of Arrogance: Most Eldar consider themselves superior to all other races in the galaxy; if their commander suggests otherwise, the shock can leave them stunned and confused.
Every time an Eldar player complains about his or his opponent's army list or Codex during the game, he must take a Pinning check for each of his units, even Fearless ones.
He he he he..I like this idea, bit like the "No negative waves!" rule from flames of war (Kellys heroes army list)..Fits the fluff quite well, too.

grey_painter
22-11-2005, 22:02
Ban Seer Councils. But then thats as an irate space wolf player:)

I do think something needs to be done about them though, even taking the toughness of the Farseers down to 3 would be nice. I don't care if he is half crystal. Also for purely fluff reasons all warlocks should come with a witchblade as standard though I'd like them toned down abit (again space wolf talking slightly).

Plus the obvious shuriken catapults and wraithlord problems. Indeed fixing the shuriken catapults would possibly improve the chances of jetbikes getting into peoples lists.

Generally I agree with most things mentioned here, especially the psychic hood point.

Denogginizer
22-11-2005, 22:13
I want a new HQ choice that's neither a giant god that can be picked out from the surrounding troops or a pansy psychic with 1 attack. Something akin to a SM Captain or equivalent. A better wargear selection as well. It's pretty puny compaired to other codex. Maybe give warpspiders rending on their guns.

Wraithbored
22-11-2005, 22:24
Ban Seer Councils. But then thats as an irate space wolf player:)

I do think something needs to be done about them though, even taking the toughness of the Farseers down to 3 would be nice. I don't care if he is half crystal. Also for purely fluff reasons all warlocks should come with a witchblade as standard though I'd like them toned down abit (again space wolf talking slightly).

Plus the obvious shuriken catapults and wraithlord problems. Indeed fixing the shuriken catapults would possibly improve the chances of jetbikes getting into peoples lists.

Generally I agree with most things mentioned here, especially the psychic hood point.


I have to agree with you on the farseer, his strength lies in his mind and the psychic powers he wields, he's not the ubber sliceydicey CC maniac. And warlocks shouldn't be either. Pardon me if I use Dnd terminology the Farseer is a Wizard or psion while the Warlock is more the Fighter or Psychic warrior if you will. And a Military commander option like the rumoured Autarch would be nice. As the Wraithlord I'd like to see either a price hike or lowering of T and fleet of foot as suggested.

And as for jetbikes they are not that bad IMHO, the 6" assault move regardless of proximity to the enemy and the choice to either hover above CC or to partake in it makes for great tactical flexibility.

Wraithbored
22-11-2005, 22:30
Actually, I'd rather go the other way with the WL (and WG). Drop its initiative or give it true power fists so it strikes last anyway, or even make it Slow And Purposeful.

The Eldar are distinctly uneasy with the idea of disturbing their ancestors and implanting them into Wraith-constructs, making them operate very differently on the battlefield helps to emphasise this.

Tim
I tottaly disagree on the wraithlord and wraithguard. Space marine dreads strike in initative order and have I 4. And why should it be slow and purposeful? The idea of the Eldar is fast and precise! Not slow and cumbersome that's Necrons. Also on the topic of Wraithlords, they always contain soulstones of exarchs, why not give wraithlords upgrade options to symbolise the shrine from which a the soul came, changing the abilities of the wraithlords to some degree (eg. Dark reaper Wraithlord = Stands stil and shoots like nuts, Howling banshee wraithlord= Great CC, lousy in ranged shooting)

Yes the Eldar don't like to disturb their ancestors unless they have to, but when the ancestor is INTEGRATED into the wraithlord(it is an exarch soulstone or other highly skilled warrior) then it's completely dedicated and focused on the battle at hand and will not falter or doze off like Wraithguard without a warlock do(quite frankly that rule has been one of the silliest in the eldar dex IMHO). And let's be honest yes they DO have T5 but at 12" range and at the price per model they are far from great and from good as well.:eyebrows:

What I'd like to see in the new dex is some sort of hatred towards Slaanesh in particular, and the ability to hurt necrons(necron players don't flay me just yet I want a rule to show that the eldar and necrons are ancient foes and know each other's strengths and weaknesses quite well). Also wargear we "won" in EoT would be a nice fluff add-on(see Belial IV).

druchii
22-11-2005, 23:21
I like alot of these comments, and coming late to a thread like this doesn't leave me with alot of origional ideas.

I really like the idea to throw rending on the warp spiders' weapons, I'd use em a bit more if they kept their current rules and stats, but had rending as well (or perhaps even re-work their spiners a bit, to compensate for the auto-wound/ignore armor)

I'd love to see a more military oriented leader, I'm no expert on Eldar fluff (sue me!) but aren't there Aspect warriors even above the exarchs? I'd love to see an aspected "HQ" choice running around with a slighly themed army.

An improvement on the basic troops would make me happy also. 12" rifles just seem TOO shabby, especially when the eldar themselves usually move more than they shoot, and even then they act as screens, or "meat" for weapon platforms. I'm currently on the fence about just HOW to imprive the catapults, but I think we all know it needs improvement.

Really, once they fix the HQ dilemma, the basic troop issues, and shore up a few loose ends (like completely retarded choices, like dire avengers, shining spears, jetbikes, uber wraithlords and starcannons) we'll be fine without too much of a major overhaul.

d

Marikano
23-11-2005, 00:12
HQ Choices

Farseer with option of Warlock Bodyguard Squad
Autarch with option of Exarch Bodyguard

Elite Choices

Fire Dragons
Warp Spiders
Avatar
Wraithguard (Wraithlords powered down as optional unit leaders)

Troop Choices

Dire Avengers
Howling Banshees
Striking Scorpions
Rangers

Fast Attack Choices

Jet Bikes
Vyper Jetbikes
Swooping Hawks
Shining Spears

Heavy Support Choices

Falcon Grav Tank
Fire Prism
Dark Reapers (change weapons to assault)

My ideas as a starting point for a new list. No real need for guardians in an elite army.

AgentZero
23-11-2005, 02:09
I want a Warp Spider P.Lord

I already have 20+ Wraithguard so I don't care if there are plastic ones.

In addition to the Autarch , I want another HQ option.

Bring back the GhostWarriors and the Harliquins

I want cheaper NightSpinners and Cobras

I want a new Aspect

I want the points retooled , especially Guardians and Dire Avengers. As the most common Aspect , Dire Avengers should be made more accessible compared to the others.

cailus
23-11-2005, 02:25
Make the Dire Avengers better.

Improve range on shuricat.

Improve psychic powers. Make Farseers a lot better than bloody SM Librarians (the same should be done for the Thousand Sons).

Limit Guardian numbers (e.g. 10 man squad size + attached warlock)

Change the more useless Exarch powers (e.g. Banshees Acrobatic power isn't really that useful since 4th ed came in as you almost always get your attacks anyway, even if not in base-to-base contact).

Improve Fire Prism

Make jetbikes cheaper

Limit Wraithlord numbers in smaller battles (1,000 points or less). Alternatively decrease their toughness to T6.

Improve the Avatar. For a wargod he's pretty pathetic, even when compared to some power armoured Chaos lords.

Kahadras
23-11-2005, 02:34
"I tottaly disagree on the wraithlord and wraithguard. Space marine dreads strike in initative order and have I 4. And why should it be slow and purposeful?"

Well I think the primary difference is the fact that the Dread still has a living pilot. There is a still a brain in there. With a Wraithlord all that is controling it is the essance of a dead Eldar. The fluff states that they have a problem interacting with the corperal world so I don't see why the Wraithlord should be any different. The soul that it is carrying might be that of a great warrior but it still does not make up for the fact that he is dead and therefore slightly detached from the mortal relm.
I would like all of the wraith constructs to be portraited as tough but slow. Able to take a real battering before going down but unable to move as swiftly as fluidly as mortal troops would.

Kahadras

Chem-Dog
23-11-2005, 02:35
I've come late here so much of what I'd say has been said. A guardian Commander would be nice.
I have learned that the Eldar do look to be getting a Major boost in the plastics range, The guy I spoke to said Reapers would be Plastic (Possibly a trend for all aspect warriors) and they look awesome and that basically anything with legs will be plastic too.

I'd REALLY like to see exodites.


With a Wraithlord all that is controling it is the essance of a dead Eldar. The fluff states that they have a problem interacting with the corperal world so I don't see why the Wraithlord should be any different.

Dream-like state, this would make sense.
Also give Eldar player a pause for thought when considering wraiths of any size, they are pretty standard around my way.

NorthernMike
23-11-2005, 02:49
I like a lot of the suggestions on this thread as well. I think that making the shrucat better will make the direavengers better automatically.

I too would like to see guardians as more restricted - especially in unit size. Maybe a limit to how many guardians you can field in an army total (except certain craft worlds). So they would be like the Wolf guard - only 20 in the entire army - but maybe 30 should be the limit for Eldar. And maybe they take up a force slot depending on what they are equipped with.

Resrtict wraithlords too!

I would like to see the warp spiders weapons more like the old second edition versions, well maybe not quite that powerful, but more like that. Maybe like that new Tau weapon with s3 rending or something.

Make some other guns worth taking besides the starcannon and bright lance. Maybe just a lot cheaper or something.

Dark reapers need armour 3+.

I also like the ideas about farseers and warlocks as more psychic than choppy.

The Avatar should be more protected, and maybe have a template flame blast to help against hoards on the charge.

I think the big boys like the avatar and wraithlord could use an upgrade to nullify the effects of rending against it. Because you lose these guys a bit too fast with these claws/guns around.

I am not sure about rending shrucats though, bit to much in my books.

I like the idea that the aspects are customizable - the specific aspect depends on what skills and weapons you equipe them with. Allows for some variance in designing them and so not every aspect is the same. Maybe you could have a couple slightly different styles of banshees or swooping hawks. So maybe aspects could be the doctrine/trait system.

I also wouldn't mind exodites, pirates and the craftworlds all in the same book.


So that's my short list....

azimaith
23-11-2005, 02:57
I tottaly disagree on the wraithlord and wraithguard. Space marine dreads strike in initative order and have I 4. And why should it be slow and purposeful? The idea of the Eldar is fast and precise! Not slow and cumbersome that's Necrons. Also on the topic of Wraithlords, they always contain soulstones of exarchs, why not give wraithlords upgrade options to symbolise the shrine from which a the soul came, changing the abilities of the wraithlords to some degree (eg. Dark reaper Wraithlord = Stands stil and shoots like nuts, Howling banshee wraithlord= Great CC, lousy in ranged shooting)

This would be interesting. All the wraithlord really needs is a point hike and a limit to how many you can bring. Variants would be interesting.



What I'd like to see in the new dex is some sort of hatred towards Slaanesh in particular, and the ability to hurt necrons(necron players don't flay me just yet I want a rule to show that the eldar and necrons are ancient foes and know each other's strengths and weaknesses quite well). Also wargear we "won" in EoT would be a nice fluff add-on(see Belial IV).
Hatred doesn't necessarily make you skilled, their avoidance of slannesh is shown in their warrior life. As for skills against necrons, you have a str 6 ap 2 gun, what more skill do you need, necrons basically beat the eldar, the old ones, and the rest of the galaxy into a gooey pulp until the enslaver plague. Eldar also have things like howling banshees that are quite *anti-necron* anyhow.



I think the big boys like the avatar and wraithlord could use an upgrade to nullify the effects of rending against it. Because you lose these guys a bit too fast with these claws/guns around.


This basically makes your wraithlords untouchable by tyranids. You get guns, powerfists, and a toughness 8 and a 3+ save, we have nothing that can beat you to death with any effectiveness. Carnifexes will get shot to pieces by starcannons/brightlances and strike last when it finally lumbers into combat (if at all). Hive tyrants wound you on a 6+ and suffer the same as above unless you give them wings, in which case the wraithlord is still going to beat you to death because you can't wound it.

lord_blackfang
23-11-2005, 08:52
I think the big boys like the avatar and wraithlord could use an upgrade to nullify the effects of rending against it. Because you lose these guys a bit too fast with these claws/guns around.
And let's give Marines an upgrade to nullify the effects of Starcannons against them... because they lose guys a bit too fast with these guns around. :eyebrows:

Helicon_One
23-11-2005, 15:34
I think the big boys like the avatar and wraithlord could use an upgrade to nullify the effects of rending against it. Because you lose these guys a bit too fast with these claws/guns around.

"My special rules cancel out your special rules" is irritating enough already on the few things that have it, without expanding the idea to everything else and turning 40K fully into StonePaperScissorsHammer (although as the Black Templars have that armour upgrade which nullifies the Lance rule, it seems to be the direction GW is taking).


I tottaly disagree on the wraithlord and wraithguard. Space marine dreads strike in initative order and have I 4. And why should it be slow and purposeful?

Read the Wraithsight rule. Wraith-constructs are powered by the souls of slain Eldar, they're essentially zombies. Should a zombie really move as fast as a living eldar, or strike at the same Initiative in combat (in all the best zombie films, they shuffle slowly around and react gradually to events)?

SM Dreads, by contrast, are Robocop-style cyborgs, so they don't lose their edge in the same way.


The idea of the Eldar is fast and precise! Not slow and cumbersome that's Necrons.

But Wraith constructs aren't Eldar any more, any more than ghosts are still people. Making them operate differently on the field helps to maintain this distinction.


Also on the topic of Wraithlords, they always contain soulstones of exarchs, why not give wraithlords upgrade options to symbolise the shrine from which a the soul came, changing the abilities of the wraithlords to some degree

Same reason you don't get Chaplain or Librarian Dreadnoughts, I guess. Or perhaps the spirit loses the characteristics of its particular shrine on death, and is just left with a general fighting instinct - in fact I seem to remember that the Exarch gets some of his or her abilities from their armour itself, so removing the spirit and placing it in a WL would mean losing that. Besides, you just know somebody would want a Swooping Hawk Wraithlord with a jumppack....

Tim

Captain Stuart
23-11-2005, 16:31
The problem with lowering Farseers to T3 is Perils of the Warp failures would then insta-kill your HQ. I'm not too keen on that, even with spending more points to help alleviate that chance.

Dire Avengers: once the shuriken catapult gets fixed I'd make the change that Avengers can take some grenade upgrade. I might even go so far as to remove the grenade options from the Defender Guardians to compensate.

Exarch powers need to be reexamined and tweaked. I'd prefer something more in theme with an aspect shrine than simply allowing a HTH upgrade. Take a look at the Reaper Exarch for an example.

Make the Scatter/Multi Laser H6 AP-. No more randomness. This would help seperate it from the shuriken cannon and star cannon. Of course, that would make the Warp Spider weapons similar, but I would prefer them to become different too.

Harelquins and Ghost Warriors to return? I'd love it, but I don't see it. Ghost Warriors sort of evolved into Wraithguard.

Make Wraithguard 5-7 points cheaper and leave their abilities alone.

grey_painter
23-11-2005, 17:02
Not thought of the perils of the warp problem. But then with 3d6 pyschic test and a ghost helm they rarely bothered by any daemons. Perhaps add a special rule so farseers only take one wound due to their mental fortitute. Seems silly to base a mental attack on your physical toughness anyway.

Starchild
23-11-2005, 17:14
Read the Wraithsight rule. Wraith-constructs are powered by the souls of slain Eldar, they're essentially zombies. Should a zombie really move as fast as a living eldar, or strike at the same Initiative in combat (in all the best zombie films, they shuffle slowly around and react gradually to events)?In 1st Edition the Wraithlords (formerly called Eldar Dreadnoughts) needed to focus on the minds of living Eldar to help them perceive the physical universe.

Basically, if there were no living Eldar left on the board then they were not able to move or fire, essentially dead for game purposes. Having Eldar psykers within 12" gave them a +1 to hit with shooting weapons.

lockmaster55
23-11-2005, 23:07
Hi there, an interesting deabte has been going on a 40konline.com on the subjects of wraithguard. One propsed idea is:

35 points per model
ws bs s t w i a ld sv
3 4 5 5 2 3 1 10 3+

size: 3-10 models (iyenden min size is 5)

Wraithcannon as is, but 18" and Counts as 2-handed heavy c.c weapon.
Wraith sight (as is, but also makes them immune to guid and fortune)
still fearless etc.

I like these changes very much, and believe this would make them a very viable unit. I2 and WS3 are to represent seeing things as a load of moving spirits, i.e lower reflexes

NorthernMike
24-11-2005, 00:01
I see I drew a little heat about the saving the "big boys" comment. But nobody said it was a bad Idea for the Avatar, just the Wraithlord. Maybe it would be to powerful an effect, that is probably true, especially for the tyranids. But marines have the only gun in the game that i can think of that can take out these guys in one turn of shooting. I know other armies can kill them in one shooting phase, but normally not from one gun. The Avatar should be even more threatening than the Wraithlord, in my opinion.

And the only way to counter the effects of these rules being too powerful is to limit the use of Wraithlords, so that only the ghost craftworld may have 3. One should be the normal max, and maybe 2 with some other restrictions.

just my 2 cents, again

WanderingRogue
24-11-2005, 08:01
maybe make wraithlords 1 per 1000pts (or part ). so you can only have two up to two thousand point.

maybe maybe grav platforms detatchable- or indeed only available seperatly. maybe 0-2 per troop choise and cant have more than u have other troop choises.

a system which invalidates the craftworld book- so its all in one book. plus maybe have a "create your own craftworld" rule set.

lockmaster55
24-11-2005, 14:35
IMO falcons with holo fields are far better than wraithlords. What is the big problem with them? It is rare any army has a perticular hard time taking them down!

WanderingRogue
24-11-2005, 15:22
i personally dont have trouble taking em down - but it does get a little boring seeing three of them in every army i play. so reducing their number means (hopefully) more points can be spent on various other stuff, giving everybody involved a much more varied gaming experience.

Brushmonkey
24-11-2005, 15:43
Nice idea there. I have to agree, i'm very bored with playing Marine players. I suggest we make them 1 per shop/event. That way we can have some some interesting amd varied play.

TWB
24-11-2005, 15:56
I would like for one thing to stay the same, NO AUTARCH.

Brushmonkey
24-11-2005, 15:57
Why, whats wrong with an Autarch?

TWB
24-11-2005, 16:12
Everything. Flies in the face of everything we have been told about The aspects, Exarchs and the Path. Once an eldar has completed the path of a particular aspect, he puts it aside and starts upon a new path. . . [GW SHODDY FLUFF INJECTION]. . . ahem, When an eldar completes the path of a particular warrior aspect he keeps all of his wargear as a present from the guys at the (for example) Banshee shrine, after several centuries he decides to atempt another of the warrior diciplines, he duly completes this and gets his loverly new Reaper armour and launcher.
One night while he's polishing his armour he suddenly thinks "what if . . . .", next morning he emerges as Unlikelyas the Screaming reaper . . . .

I know it's a trivialisation, but it's such a bad idea.

Aspect Wraitlords/Guard would have been a better idea, and that's rediculous.

Brushmonkey
24-11-2005, 17:10
Cool, so you've seen the rules for the Autarch! What are they like? Do they really get to mix the equipment?

Or perhaps you haven't seen the new rules after all, and don't actually know how they are going to turn out.

I'm off to the Sony forums to complain about the Playstation 9, I mean, what are they thinking!?!

:D

bigred
24-11-2005, 17:28
@TWB

except there was a mention of the autarch in all but name as far back as 2nd edition.

Remember the reference to the "warriors who hunt for themselves" (or something close, I dont have my 2nd ed. codex handy). These were described as individuals who traveled from aspect to aspect, as they threw themselves into the Path of the warror, but never becoming so enmeshed in any one to truly become a tightly specialized Exarch.

This is the seed of the Autarch concept... An eldar who is devoted to the Path of the Warrior "as a whole" and thus sees all of its facets and is able to take them all in in a larger context. I would see how these individuals would be mightly leaders in time of war, knowing intimately the strengths and weaknesses of the various aspects; and how to use them collectively to their best effect.

-bigred