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madival
19-11-2008, 05:30
The nightshroud armor effects anyone trying to hit the bearer. does this bonus also count towards the unite as well like say and entire unit would lose something if they had it like ASF or would it be just towards the bearer?

Oberon
19-11-2008, 05:44
Only those who strike the wearer are affected. Of course, if your vamp is in the middle and the 3 enemies strike him, the 2 models on each side of the vamp could also strike before the enemies hitting last because of the shroud. But no, no other models are directly affected than those who strike the wearer. So it is most effective in challenges, as it is bound to work. Good luck with that AS6+ there :P (ok you can get it to 3+ with dread knight for example. Hmm...).

I have used it with my fighting BSB vamp to some succes against normal regiments (t3 as4+) he is a beast: bsb, hatred, walking death, sword of might, nightshroud, lycni. He can keep a regiment still by himself, dealing very reliable one or two wound per turn, and generating practically 3 CR static (2 for banner and bloodline, one of being near the same bsb, if he loses). Always striking first with his attacks should keep the front rank still, spear regiments of course are harder.

madival
19-11-2008, 05:50
What worries me is giving my lord dread lance red fury and see his unit wiped out because something like blackgaurd kills most of my knights due to ASF stuff. so i wanna even the score with that if possible.

Oberon
19-11-2008, 06:11
Banner of regeneration to the unit, and they won't die in any great numbers. But yes, nightshroud could help there. With regen, the lowered AS of 3+ wouldn't be that bad. I might take that next time, sounds cool... Don't know why I've always taken it on foot, it doesn't demand that right?

madival
19-11-2008, 06:32
nope jsut 20 point light armor that might go on my fighting vampire lord

Oberon
19-11-2008, 06:37
This might be more of a tactics question, but now I'm really thinking which one to take for my lord. This far the cadaverous cuirass has worked wonders, letting the lord survive DE assasins, WE wardancers and TK scorpions unscathed while they already thought the count was dead. It comes as a surprise, is 5 points cheaper and gets me one point better armour save, but striking first (and so maybe not even being hit back) is golden too. It would be obvious though, as there is only this one magical light armour in the whole book, no mundane LA or anything else to take :/

theunwantedbeing
19-11-2008, 10:28
Nightshroud, dreadlance, red fury.
Run up to a unit, kill that unit.
Then whoever's left alive get's to strike your vampire (ie. nobody)

Anyone wishing to attack the wearer of the nightshroud will be going last, so you can kill them with the wearer before they get to attack, or kill them with the wearer's friends before they get to attack.

The only "downside" to this armour is that because it is light armour and you must reveal all mundane things on a character, your opponent is going to have to not have encounted this before to fall for it.

madival
20-11-2008, 17:52
Banner of regeneration to the unit, and they won't die in any great numbers. But yes, nightshroud could help there. With regen, the lowered AS of 3+ wouldn't be that bad. I might take that next time, sounds cool... Don't know why I've always taken it on foot, it doesn't demand that right?

then i would have a 780 points knight unit running around that may destroy half an army or run around doing nothing

Oberon
20-11-2008, 17:57
Would it not be like that with or without the nightshroud? Or do you put your lord somewhere else without the shroud? My knights with characters give up some 1300VP (almost) with banners and all, so even without crumbling the game is lost :D Think of it this way: without the regen banner, you have 700+pts unit that is dead after good round of shooting, or at least draws your PD to get it back to strength, while with 900+ pts unit that threat is more than halved against most enemies.
Other armies' ultra expensive cavalry regiments might spend the game running around and doing nothing, but we are talking about undead cavalry here. It does not die, it keeps getting back up, and it has its own assault phase to boot. With lord in there, you'll have your own vanhel-machine close to keep the train moving, maybe even hitting something once in a while. Works for me, might do that for you too :)

Latro
20-11-2008, 20:35
The only "downside" to this armour is that because it is light armour and you must reveal all mundane things on a character, your opponent is going to have to not have encounted this before to fall for it.

Wouldn't the reasoning be that since he isn't wearing any mundane armour, you won't have to give any information about his armour at all?

After all, you only have to tell your opponent the mundane equipment your models have.


:cool:

sulla
20-11-2008, 23:20
What worries me is giving my lord dread lance red fury and see his unit wiped out because something like blackgaurd kills most of my knights due to ASF stuff. so i wanna even the score with that if possible.

Won't work in that case. Black guard would never waste their attacks on a t5 guy, they'd just try to kill the guys around him and pop him with combat resolution.

What it is excellent for is protecting him from assassins. Especially if you give him hatred too.

theunwantedbeing
21-11-2008, 01:01
Wouldn't the reasoning be that since he isn't wearing any mundane armour, you won't have to give any information about his armour at all?

After all, you only have to tell your opponent the mundane equipment your models have.


:cool:

Light armour, magical or not is still light armour.
Light armour is mundane, so therefore must be revealed.

Latro
21-11-2008, 08:52
Light armour, magical or not is still light armour.
Light armour is mundane, so therefore must be revealed.

I've never heard or saw it played like that before ... :confused:

If something's magical, it's not mundane ... if it's not mundane, it doesn't have to be revealed until used. Some of it's functions may use the rules for mundane equipment, but that doesn't make it a mundane item.

It never even came up for discussion around here.


:cool:

(PS Has there ever been something official on this?)

Lordmonkey
21-11-2008, 12:15
(PS Has there ever been something official on this?)

I wonder. I'm running a tourney next year at my club, with public army lists. Should be itneresting to see how it affects the game.

Gokamok
21-11-2008, 13:03
afaik, there is no official ruling on exactly what you have to reveal to your opponent in terms of magic items, etc. My impression however, is that most people inform their opponent of mundane items, and mundane equivalents of magic items. So, a guy with Nightshroud and Sword of Might would be "Light Armor and HW", while Cadaverous Cuirass and Black Axe would be "Heavy armor and GW".

I personally prefer just saying "armor", rather than specifying whether it's light, heavy, or whatever, in order not to force players to essentially inform their opponent of the exact item being worn.

Oberon
21-11-2008, 16:52
Well, there is "armour" and "light&heavy armour" in the magic items list. If I have flayed hauberk, then I say I have "armour" as that is what the army book says and I can't give any more accurate info about my mundane gear as the AB does not specify what kind of armour it is. Not so with nightshroud or say, armour of the night, as they tell you exactly what kind of armour it is, and that I can and will tell them. Sure it ruins the surprise a bit, but some people tend to forget it in the heat of battle, and in challenges you often don't have a choice.

I thought it was in the rules to tell your opponent what kind of mundane items your characters had? Like wysiwyg or something. It is at least well known custom here to tell, so I don't really care if it is actually in the book or not...