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View Full Version : STealing a page from Malorian's Playbook, DOC Vs WOC Who will win.



Briohmar
21-11-2008, 14:02
OK, I have a four game Tournament on Sunday, and I'm going with my Warriors of Slaanesh, over my Daemons. I want to run a little test this evening, so I am going to have my 13 yr old son play my Daemons, instead of his Greenskins, against me. I will give him his choice of lists, but I already know he'll choose the list with the keeper of secrets because he likes really big, impressive models (he always has a giant, its the only thing in his list he won't change.) So the most likely Daemon list is:

Keeper of Secrets, Lvl 4, Siren, Torment Blade

Herald of Slaanesh, Lvl 1, Etherblade

Herald of Khorne, Armor of Khorne, Torment Blade

11 Daemonettes, Aluress, Banner of Ecstacy

12 Daemonettes, Aluress, Banner of Ecstacy

11 Bloodletters of Khorne, Bloodreaper, Icon of Endless War

6 Chaos Furies

5 Seekers of Slaanesh, Siren Standard

5 Fleshhounds of Khorne

2 Fiends of Slaanesh



Facing him will be my all Slaanesh Horde:

Exalted Champion, MoS, Sword of Might, Shield, Barded Steed

Sorceror, Lvl 2, MoS, Cojoined Homonculous, Dispell Scroll, Barded Steed

Sorceror, Lvl 2, MoS, Power Familiar, Dispell Scroll

11 Warriors, HW, Shield, Full Command, MoS, Rapturous Standard

20 Marauders, Flails, Full Command, MoS

5 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, Mus, MoS

5 Marauder Horsemen, Spears, Shields, Champ, Mus, MoS

5 Hounds

5 Hounds

5 Chaos Knights, Full Command, MoS

5 Chaos Knights, Full Command, MoS

Chariot, MoS

Spawn, MoS

Warshrine, MoS

Tactically speaking, I have the advantage, by a long shot, but the belief that Daemons are the be-all/end-all of WHFB, I have to give some odds to the boy. Both lists are my design, so theoretically they should play very similarly. Who then do you think will win?

I will post the Batrep Monday, as well as the four from the tournament through the coming week.

Draconian77
21-11-2008, 15:08
I'm going to go with the more experienced general. Slaanesh is a powerful tool in the hands of such a player because they are much less likely to lose the game on one horrifying Ld check(Any source) but don't have the weakness's that Demons(No armour) or Undead(No comparative hitting power)

Also Slaanesh Demons are sort of weak...

Malorian
21-11-2008, 15:08
I voted for the warriors for two reasons:

1. You have the experience in your army, your opponent is inexperienced with his, and you have more experience with warhammer in general.

2. It looks to me that the warrior list has everything it needs to stand up to the deamons: plently of magic defense and a good amount of magic of their own, you're ItP with your key units, a good amount of throw away units, and the combat power to match them in combat.

Unless he charges in (which I doubt as I'm sure he's going to love the fact that this large model can pour out so much magic) I doubt that you'll kill the lord of change. This point denial will hurt, but I'm guessing you'll at least get a minor victory.

OldMaster
21-11-2008, 15:10
Poor thing it's MoS.

MoK would do so much better.
And isn't half of the Lore of Slaanesh spells ineffectieve against Immune to Psychology?

Nice list though. I'd have my money on you, I think.

EvC
21-11-2008, 15:25
I'd bet on the grown man no matter what the army was.

Draconian77
21-11-2008, 15:26
Oh, I don't know about that...

I've seen quite a few Gnoblar rebellions put down by inexperienced generals! :D

happy_doctor
21-11-2008, 16:03
Well, just to go against the trend I'll vote for a draw!
Briohmar is no doubt a seasoned general, his army is well designed to face daemons, being immune to the auto-break from fear. Warriors of chaos have the advantage of outnumbering and more durable units (knights and warriors). This means that, if played in a coherent way, they should be able to out-deploy the daemons and hold against any nasty charges they make.

Daemons, on the other hand, have various advantages of their own: Faster units, more reliable (they can't break and thus many counter-charges cahn be planned), far better magic, Siren Song and the ability to stike first with most units. Given the forgiving nature of the daemonic army, any inexperience on the part of Briohmar's son should be counterbalanced.

Hence, I predict a bloody match which should make for a great battle report! I'm eagerly waiting for this! (but I still predict it will be a draw)

Briohmar
21-11-2008, 16:16
@ Old Master. I use a scalpel, not a cleaver :D, sorry, just couldn't help myself, I am a 20+ year vet of the game (and a 22 year Vet, but that number keeps growing) so I believe in keeping the the rivalry between the Dark Prince and his Khorne-y rival alive and well.

@ Malorian, I'm actually afraid that he will charge one of my high cost units with the Keeper of Secrets, at 6 ASF S6 attacks, even my knights will be hard pressed to hold. I also have to remind myself that the Bloodletters are Killing blow guys, which I almost forgot when I was using them against the dwarves (it saved my but too when I faced off with the Iron Breakers.)

@ Happy_Dr I am actually inclined to agree with you, as I have my doubts about being able to take out the really killy stuff in the Daemon list.

Briohmar
21-11-2008, 21:18
Well, just for everyones edification, he opted for the Daemon Prince list. This means the list if the same except, instead of KoS, its a Daemon Prince, Lvl 2, Many Armed Monstrosity, Flying Horror, and add in 10 Horrors, Banner of Sorcery.

Draconian77
21-11-2008, 21:27
I thought the general concensus was that Demon Princes were sub-useful?

I think that if you want a close game you may want to convince him to take the Keeper. I could be wrong, but I feel Slaanesh demons(In comparison to other demon troops, they still pawn most basic infantry, but basic infantry barely exists anymore) are weak enough without handicapping themselves by taking the Prince.

Kalec
21-11-2008, 23:57
Daemon Prince?

Thats all I need to hear. WoC will win by a solid victory, at least.

EvC
22-11-2008, 00:21
Yeah, if your son beats you with that rubbish, then I may have to refrain from posting after the battle report, which I will be greatly looking forwards to :D

Znail
22-11-2008, 18:02
Well, just for everyones edification, he opted for the Daemon Prince list. This means the list if the same except, instead of KoS, its a Daemon Prince, Lvl 2, Many Armed Monstrosity, Flying Horror, and add in 10 Horrors, Banner of Sorcery.

You need to teach your son to be a better general! :p

Briohmar
24-11-2008, 14:22
The favored of Slaanesh, Briohmar, planned to send his minions south of the wastes, but he was unable to decide whether it should be the mortal followers, or the daemonic ones. In true Chaos fashion, he decided to let them decide for him. The Daemons, led by Daemon Prince Christophus, lined up with a will, to crush the mortal followers of Sriahdcat.

Set-up
Daemons (from left to right):
Seekers
Bloodletters with Herald
Daemonettes
Daemon Prince and furies behind the Daemonettes
Fiends
Fleshhounds
Horrors
And Daemonettes with Herald

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/001.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/002.jpg

The mortals lined up to face them (also from left to right, but the photos show from Chrisí perspective):
Hounds
Knights with Exalted behind hounds
Marauder Horse with flails
Chariot
Marauders
Warshrine
Warriors with Sorcerer
Spawn
Hounds with Knights and sorcerer behind
Marauder Horse with spears and shields

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/003-1.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/004.jpg

TURN 1:
Christophus ordered all his minions forward, just as fast as they could go, eager to prove that he should lead the expedition. He attempted to unleash with magic, but the mortal sorcerers were just too much of a defense except for the Herald of Slaanesh who managed to cast acquiescence on the Warriors and Sorcerer.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/005.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/006-1.jpg


Sriahdcat orders his followers forward as well, and the battle was joined. The hounds on the left charged the Seekers, The Marauder Horse with flails charged the Furies, the Chariot Charged the Daemon Prince. The Marauders moved forward, the Warriors and Sorcerer stumbled forward, momentarily overcome with a bout of stupidity, the Spawn moved between the stupid Warriors and the Fleshhounds of Khorne, and the Knights with Sorcerer and Marauder Horse moved up towards the lake. Magic saw Lash dispelled, and then a Miscast causing a wound on the mounted Sorcerer. In Close combat, predictably, the hounds were slaughtered, the Marauder horse crushed the Fiends and overran into the Bloodletters, and the Chariot caused three wounds on the Daemon Prince and took two in return, but the Prince made his instability check. (I forgot to use the Shrine on the first turn.)

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/007-1.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/008-1.jpg

TURN 2:
The Daemons came on with a vengeance. The Seekers charged Sriahdcat and his Knights, the Fleshhounds charged the Spawn, and the Heraldís íNettes charged the hounds who chose to run away, but hesitated, and were run down. The Horrors, Fiends, and Daemonettes rushed forward to join the fray. Magic was again uneventful, so on to combat. Sriahdcat and the Knights obliterated the Seekers, The Marauder Horse Sent two Bloodletters packing, but the Herald of Khorne and his followers cut them down to a man. Christophus finished off the Chariot, and the Fleshhounds were unable to get a good bite on the slippery, slimy Spawn, who in turn wounded a hound.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/009-1.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/010-1.jpg

Sriahdcat and his Knights charged into Christophus, The Marauders charged the Fiends, and the Sorcererís Knights and Marauder Horse with spears charged the Daemonettes. The Warriors and the Other Sorcerer recovered theirs wits and moved forward to help out the Spawn in his fight with the Fleshhounds. Sriahdcatís pet Sorcerers did a dismal job of contributing to the fight, and failed to get a single spell through. The Marauders with flails were gifted with an extra point of strength from the Shrine, and proceeded to kill one of the Fiends outright (the second one caused two wounds in return, but suffered an additional two wounds from a terrible instability roll.) Sriahdcat challenged Christophus, and found that his Sword of Might was in reality, a Sword of Might Not. Christophus, in turn, chopped Sriahdcat into little exalted meatballs. Sadly, though, the Knights with the banner and musician were enough to turn the fight to a victory, and Christophus returned to the ether in a glittering shower while the Knights continued their charge into the waiting hell blades of the Bloodletters and Herald of Khorne. The Fleshhounds managed to wound the Spawn twice, with no damage in return. The Champion of the Sorcererís Knights challenged the Herald of Slaanesh, and cut her down. Thanks to the presence of the Warshrine, the Champion was gifted with an additional hardening of his Chaos Armor. The remaining Knights and Marauders killed off a couple more Daemonettes, and three more returned to the ether due to instability, but not before they cut down two Marauder Horse.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/011-1.jpg

TURN 3:
With most of the remaining Daemonic units locked into combat, the Daemonettes and Horrors attempted to position themselves better to get into the fight. The Horrors attempted Flickering Flames on the Warriors, but were unsuccessful. The Knight Champion challenged the hated Khorne Daemons, and the Bloodletter Champ replied. The Knight Champion slaughtered the Bloodletter, and was gifted with a point of strength. The remaining knights killed a Bloodletter, but lost two in return. Instability claimed an additional two Bloodletters. The Marauders lost four of their number to the Fiend, but the Chieftain managed to kill the Fiend in return. The Fleshhounds killed off the Spawn, and the Knights and Marauder horse finished off the Daemonettes.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/012-1.jpg

In a fit of clear-headedness, the Warriors charged the Fleshhounds, the Marauders, heady with their victory over the fiends, charged the Daemonettes, and the Marauder horse charged into the flank of the Horrors. In a moment of brilliance, the mounted Sorcerer cast Ecstatic Seizures on the Daemonettes, and six of them were overcome with pleasure, and vanished back to the halls of the Dark Prince, and the foot Sorcerer cast frenzy on the marauders (this was the only effective magic phase for either side, the entire game.) The Warshrine turned the Eye of Slaanesh onto the Warriors, and gifted them with, of all things, magic resistance. The Marauders botched all of their attacks (well, Chris made three ward saves), and five of them were cut down before they turned and ran. The Daemonettes, eager to embrace the brave fighters, gave chase and ran them down. The Warriors cut down three Fleshhounds who vanished back into the ether, but not before slaying one Warrior who moved forward towards the horrors. The Marauder Horse killed a horror, and the horses themselves killed another, and three more horrors vanished in a puff of smoke. Finally, the Knights had a horrible round of combat, only wounding two Bloodletters, and all but the champion dying in return.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/013-1.jpg

TURN 4:
The remaining Daemons attempted to regroup. The Daemonettes reformed to face the advancing Knights, and the Bloodletters and Herald moved to lend a hand. The Horrors lost two more, but held onto their grip on reality.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/014.jpg

The Knights Charged into the Daemonettes, and the Warriors hit the remaining Horrors. Not wanting to risk another miscast, magic was not attempted. The Knights slaughtered the Daemonettes, the other Knight died horribly under the blade of the Khorne Herald, and the Horrors were wiped out, with the warriors continuing on deeper into the Daemonic starting zone.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/015-1.jpg

TURN 5: Its Over.
The Bloodletters and Herald ran towards the Chaos Knights, but were unable to make it. Meanwhile, the Marauder Horse saw an opportunity to take them down and hit them square in the flank, killing both Letters, and wathcing the Herald vanish, swearing to return for revenge.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/016-1.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Briohmar/Warhammer/017-1.jpg

Afterthoughts of the battle. Massacre to Warriors, much of it was due to the inexperience of the player. It looked pretty balanced on turns 1 and 2, but thurn three really blew it open for me. Just too many of Chris' units were lined up for me to hit with the forces I wanted to hit them with.

A WS 8, 7 Attack S5 monster is pretty nasty. Bloodletters are just mean when under the Locus of a Herald of Khorne, and ASF Daemonettes can be pretty effective. My Throw away units did their jobs, well the hounds in front of the General didnít do much but die, but they did at least get me a charge into the Daemon prince in due order. The Spawn definitely did what I wanted, which was to hold up the hounds until my Warriors could get to them, the hounds could have had a better roll when running from the Daemonettes and Herald, but instead they rolled a measly 6, and were wiped out. It worked in my favor, though, and left the Daemonettes open to a front and flank charge. I thought my Knights would do better against the Bloodletters, but I was wrong. And they were slaughtered to a man. Losing my General in the Challenge with the Prince left me kind of disjointed, but a nasty 11 on the Princeís instability test saved the day.
The Hero of the match had to be my marauder horsewomen, or at least their horses. With 4 spear attacks they managed to kill one horror, but the horses always came back to make the kills. Then they came on and killed the final two Bloodletters, and left the herald of Khorne to fail his instability test (badly.) This meant they effectively wiped out a unit of Daemonettes, Horrors, Bloodletters, and a Herald of Khorne almost single-handedly. Not too bad for a 91 point unit.

Malorian
24-11-2008, 17:33
That was quite the slaughter on both sides.

Did your son have fun at least?

Briohmar
24-11-2008, 18:02
Oh yeah, he had a great time. He was even happier that I trusted him to use one of the good armies. Normally, I play my Empire against his Orcs. This was a special event, but it made him quite happy.

goodz
26-11-2008, 00:13
your champion gained +1 S?

I didn't think unit champions had eye of the gods, i knew they could challenge (and had to) but I didn't think they got to roll when they won.

His prince getting smashed by a chariot on the opening turn seemed a little ill thought out considering the prince has such superior movment compared to a chariot, and the math for how far forward he could move without being charged should have been doable for someone his age:P

fun times tho,

I am quite enjoying WoC so far altho have ran a series of losses against a bretonian friend, damn their extra movment and static combat points

Briohmar
26-11-2008, 09:46
Unit champions can get the eye if you have a Warshrine on the table. This is the one benefit to having the shrine on hand, actually, being able to give an eye roll to a unit is also incredibly useful.

Kerill
29-11-2008, 02:45
Nice report but it seems you got a roll on the EOTG table for killing a unit champion which I think is illegal since in the book it states it must be a character.

Briohmar
29-11-2008, 06:39
Now this is where it is questionable. RAW says that when a unit champion accepts a challenge he is treated as a character (thats from the BRB.) So my interpretation is that if you kill a (counts as) character, you get a roll. We don't have an FAQ yet, so I'll play it RAW for the moment, until I'm told otherwise.

Kerill
29-11-2008, 07:49
No the brb makes it very very clear that a unit champion can challenge LIKE a character but is NOT a character.

Sad but true, I wish it were otherwise and apparently in a WD battle report the got a roll on the table for killing a champion but WD reports are notoriously dodgy for rules violations.

Gazak Blacktoof
29-11-2008, 07:54
Concise well written report, it was very easy to follow. It would be better if you could resize the pictures in future reports, I found the ones for this report a bit small.

EvC
29-11-2008, 09:16
Nice one, knew you'd win though ;)

Don't worry about things like whether you should have given an EotG roll for killing champions, people in this forum are notorious for correcting people on rules "mistakes" even if you've not made a mistake. As it stands it's impossible to know whether champions give you an EotG roll so play it however you like :D

Briohmar
03-12-2008, 10:02
By the way, I needed to give an update on how the tournament went.

The first game I played against beasts of Tzeentch, but using horrors and screamers. The terrain was really awesome for the table, but it was definitely not in my favor, and truly favored his skirmishers, who could run circles around me in the woods, hills and orchards. I lost by a massacre (but he ended up winning the tourney, so I don't feel so bad.) the second game was against VC, a nice, pleasant, and balanced VC list with 2 Lvl 2 Vamps, a Necro and a Wight King BSB. The game was called on turn 4 due to time, with me winning by a solid victory. Game three was against a just short of Gunline Dwarf army with Anvil set up in a classic castle defense (2 organ guns, two S7 bolt throwers, 3 units of thunderers, one of Warriors, and one of Hammerers.) I lost by minor, because I just couldn't get to the gunline without getting shot to hell. One bad turn of shooting would have won me the game, but it wasn't to be. The fouth game was cancelled on account of the severe snowstorm that started during the third game.

I did end up taking both the Sportsman's award, and best painted, so the day was not a total loss.

GodlessM
11-12-2008, 03:33
Well I'm not surprised he won since he was using an illegal list. It's been 6mths since the ruling was set that Daemons, Beasts and Mortals could no longer be mixed.

Briohmar
11-12-2008, 17:04
The tournament organizers allowed it, and who am I to complain. I took the challenge like I take all challenges. And if the terrain had been more favorable, things might have gone differently. It really was a beautiful table, but definitely better suited to a 40K game.