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View Full Version : Which Is Better? VC Lord choice...



BigbyWolf
22-11-2008, 12:54
Pretty simple, as the above says, which of these 2 is better?

Count Mannfred von Carstien- Abyssal Terror, Dispel Scroll, Skull Staff- 700 points.

Vampire Lord- Zombie Dragon, Dispel Scroll, Wristbands of Dark Gold, Balefire Spike, Flayed Hauberk, Extra Magic Level, Forbidden Lore, Master of the Black Arts, Summon Creatures of the Night- 720 points.

Manfred has 2 more wounds than the Lord, Generates power/ dispel dice when he caused wounds, Is level 4 wiz and knows all Vamp spells and Lore of Death, generates 2 extra PD and gets bonus for Invocation on skells and creatures. He also has a 4+ save.

His mount is T5 with 4 wounds and 3 S5 attacks.

The Lord is Level 3 and knows all vamp spells, generates and extra 2 PD and gets bonus for raising creatures. He has a magical flaming lance, a 3+ ward vs shooting and a 2+ save.

His mount is T5 with 5 wounds and 5 S6 attacks, as well as a S2 -3 AS breath weapon and -1 to hit in combat. He also has scaly skin save of 5+. Both mounts cause terror.

Looking at it I think the Lord is much better for only 20 points more- harder hitting, better saves and only slightly worse at magic. Am I missing something here?

Oberon
22-11-2008, 12:58
No, the lord is clearly better. How about giving Mannfred a hellsteed? Same mobility, less visibility, better save, about 100pts cheaper

Jerak
22-11-2008, 14:12
I think you should just put Manfred on a hellsteed and then he is better and less points!

BigbyWolf
22-11-2008, 14:22
If I put him on a Hellsteed is his save still not only 4+? And on top of that it makes him far worse in combat than the Lord, at around 120 points less.

Oberon
22-11-2008, 14:27
Mannfred is not a CC monster anyway, and the abyssal terror is not *that* good to turn him into one. Hellsteed is a mount like any other, except it can fly->it gives you US2 and 6+ armour save which can be combined with others. I don't know where did you get that 4+ armour save on abyssal terror, as monsters do not give better saves, isn't Mannfred's armour only heavy (5+)?

Jerak
22-11-2008, 14:28
True but the magic that Manfred can dish out i think more than makes up for the 2 or 3 less wounds he can do in combat. By casting all three of his magic missiles he can decimate units without going to close also when your on a monsterous mount it will more than likely get killed i u face an army with a lot of shooting leaving your vamp exposed!
I mean this is only from my personal experiance but i just feel that those kind of mounts just arnt worth there points and that Manfred, from a flexibility standpoint is superior.

Kalec
22-11-2008, 16:45
Mannfred is the superior caster, being able to take a pair of arcane items is huge. Don't try and make him work in combat, just stick him on a hellsteed and he will be fine. He still has vamp lord stats and a sword that begs to see him in combat, but you can't afford to throw him against anything with even a remote chance of winning (or just not losing). He gains nothing from kills by his mount, so there is no real benefit to giving him a killier mount.

If you want a fighty lord, then a generic lord is the better choice.

Reinnon
22-11-2008, 16:48
Why do people put Mannfred on the terror? He is much better on a normal horse inside a massive unit of skeletons/ghouls hwere his magical power can keep your army alive and kicking.

Mannfred should only be in combat with easy to kill units for his power dice sword, if he's on the terror he will just get shot at or killed with combat rez (he doesn't have a wardave, making solo combat against units suicide).

BigbyWolf
22-11-2008, 18:37
Thanks for the input, I think my mind is made up...Lord on a Dragon it is. As well as being quite hard, it's an impressive centrepiece too.

Cheers!

madival
23-11-2008, 06:10
If you want a CC beast take this.
Vamp lord with red fury Dread knight and 1 other 25 pt power(beguile is my fav)
Dread lance, nightshroud armor. roughly 370-400 pts you have a guy who mows down units(and i mean units) whole. 6-8 autohitting attacks that will always go off.

Guy Fawkes
24-11-2008, 02:16
Mannfred really isn't a CC lord at all. He's a magic lord (he has no armor, save +2 wounds, which really won't save him) with a weapon that can nab him generally about 2 power dice or dispel dice every turn he is in combat. If you like a caster type lord that can be aggressive with Lore of Death and raising, Mannfred is a good choice. The other lord looks a lot more fearsome in combat and can still do some good Vampire magic, but simply won't beat Mannfred.

Look at what you want - do you want magic or fighty more? Both characters have semblances of both but lean one way. With Mannfred I stay away from mounts because as I mentioned before he lacks any kind of armor and relies entirely on his toughness, magic, and high wound count to stay alive. This just isn't enough against good shooting. With Mannfred I put him on foot and bury him in a tough infantry unit. I danse the unit up quick and try to keep him taking out a model or two every turn for 3 turns. That's an astounding 6 power dice and 6 dispel dice if he meets a quota of 2 wounds each combat round for half the game. He might get hit, so he heals himself once in a while. Some players like Hellsteeds or Nightmares. Hellsteeds allow him to get into tricky places to cast annoying magic spells like the Soul-stealing one for Lore of Death (take a wound off) on characters and roll out a lot of Zombies with Skull Staff and Sceptre de Noirot or something. The Nightmare allows him to plow through units in cavalry units, but Black Knights lose ethereal movement with Mannfred, Blood Knights are soooo expensive already, and both units make him more vulnerable than big static CR blocks.

If you want a half-fighty, half-magic lord, don't mount him on a Zombie Dragon. I find monstrous mounts only acceptable with all-fighting characters, because most Vampire magic doesn't require LOS and can be cast in combat anyways. The small stat reduction and point bonus from moving from Dragon to Abyssal Terror can buy a magic Hero with your extra slot anyways. This nets you magic and fighting ability. Half-and-half Lords really belong in a unit, where their mixed goals don't allow them to excel by themselves and take out lots of guys by themselves, but they still want to cause a lot of kills. Also, with Vampires in general I am very wary about putting my general on any large target. Second turn crumbling is distressing at best.

Lord Dan
24-11-2008, 06:29
If you want a CC beast take this.
Vamp lord with red fury Dread knight and 1 other 25 pt power(beguile is my fav)
Dread lance, nightshroud armor. roughly 370-400 pts you have a guy who mows down units(and i mean units) whole. 6-8 autohitting attacks that will always go off.
I can't believe someone hasn't thought of this before. :rolleyes: