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oatish
28-04-2005, 03:56
I have played both against and as the Xenos menace called the Necrons. While playing against them I was beat down by metal fists but when I played as them I wiped out the Dark Angels by turn 5 and held the objective. To me, it almost seems that Necrons are too powerful but I am a fan of the army and robots in general (can do the robot dance well and am listening to Daft Punk as I type this, heh heh). Is there a enemy friendly Necron list or will I forever be branded as a power-gamer? The locals seem to be under the impression their own armies don't stack up rules wise to the Necrons. This is only intended to get a second, third or perhaps forth perspective on this army and to know if they can truly be a 'friendly' army.

oatish

gLOBS
28-04-2005, 04:38
Meh I would say tyranids. Best way to get rid of necrons is not to kill them but to make them run then they dont get back up. Hit em with a Carny and some I5 gaunts only need to kill a handfull then give em a -5 to leadership then have the I5 gaunts run em down real good. Works wonders.

Scythe
28-04-2005, 07:56
Necrons aren't overpowered. They need a different approach to beat however, and it can be annoying to play against them if you don't know how to handle them (hence the whining everywere concidering them). Points to keep in mind is phase out and preventing wbb. Wbb can be prevented most of the time by taking down the whole unit, so concentrate on that. Concentrate shooting on single units and don't stop until they are totally gone. Concentrate combat efforts on a single warrior unit and try to run that down, etc.

Of course, there are always people who take 2 or 3 monoliths and a lord with the veil in 1500 pts armies, but such power gamers excist for every army.

Barbarossa
28-04-2005, 08:20
Leave the resurrection Orb at home and Necrons will lose a lot of their evilness. Take lots of different units since that is more interesting to play against then just the most effective ones.

elfatto
28-04-2005, 20:10
I agree with Barbarossa here. Take unit that are not commonly seen in most necron armies. Units like flayed ones, heavy destroyers and pariahs would be great for a friendly list IMO.

oatish
29-04-2005, 02:38
I am a huge Pariah fan and of Heavy Destroyers but not really the Flayed Ones. But, thanks for the tips. What are the best ways to beat a necron army and is taking a monolith unethical?

oatish

Lord Icklebum
29-04-2005, 03:05
Really, I've only played against necrons once in a few years of playing. And that was during a RTT. There's just not many Necron players around the Southern Ohio area. And the guy I did play used a Nightbringer, so I already wanted to hit him. Nevermind the fact that he had borrowed the army and hadn't even read the codex through. Rolling an ordance penetrating 6 against his monolith made me feel better about the situation though.

Really though, diversity is the key to playing an opponent friendly army IMO. Don't just take phalanxes of warriors with a resurrection orb. Take pariahs, tomb spyders, flayed ones, immortals, destroyers. Just don't take more than one monolith. They're crazy powerful and if we're gonna go with the fluff side of things, I just don't think there would be need for more than one in a force under 2000 points. Kinda like the whole 3 Wraithlords in an army debate. Sure you can do it, you'll just be a jerk for doing so. (Iyanden notwithstanding I suppose.)

I feel safe in talking about opponent friendly armies because I play IG with NO heavy weapons in infantry squads (Stand and shoot tactics make me want to KILL), flamers as my ONLY squad based special weapon (This is more from personal preference and from the Ghosts novels, but also incredibly fluffy from a true infantry standpoint). No drop-trooping. No special kitting. Nothing. I like to play as close to what I perceive as a true guard army. Infantry, supported by army and heavy weapon platoons, moving up to defensible positions, and then holding the line against the enemy. And it works, in my local store's escalation league with about 20 members, I'm in first place (being only 1 of 4 non-marine players) with my only loss from a cheesed-out chaos player we found out to be cheating after the fact. I know it's a bit of a tangent, but any Guard player who doesn't move his/her infantry are jerkstores. Phew, I'm sorry, I just had to get that all out. /rant.

So in conclusion. Variety is the spice of life. Experiment with the codex to the fullest degree, who knows you may even make a good, hard competitive army without having to resort to the "bestest" choices. It's all about playing what you enjoy and don't feel guilty about after the fact.

**EDIT: Dear lord I'm wordy. I apologize for the ridiculously large post. I'll work on toning them down.

Frecus
29-04-2005, 07:05
**EDIT: Dear lord I'm wordy. I apologize for the ridiculously large post. I'll work on toning them down.

(OT, as I don't know anything about necrons, or friendly 40K armies: )
You shouldn't be sorry, big posts often lead to good discussion'. I'd rather congratulate you with such a posting habit.

Frecus
The glade wanderer
Madwarrior

mattjgilbert
29-04-2005, 07:33
Leave the resurrection Orb at home and Necrons will lose a lot of their evilness. Take lots of different units since that is more interesting to play against then just the most effective ones.

I'm a Necron player and I have won more games since I stopped taking the orb and stopped using the "boring" massed warrior/lord tactics which seem to be the basis for most (certainly most NEW) Necron players. However, I still loose games because my opponents know how to play the Necrons. I personally think that the Necron list is one of the most balanced lists. The trouble is most people only see the one way of playing them and pick a small number of the units available.

I never used to like Wraiths or Flayed Ones but I would now be loathe to drop them from any list I was creating. The Lords have some great wargear options other than the Orb and VoD. I have never used my Monolith! I will do one day, it's painted but I just need to work out how to transport it safely!

I think a "friendly" Necron army is any which doesn't follow the beginners pattern of army selection. It will make for a far more interesting games for both sides. On top of that, follow the advice given by others here - Necrons play a little differently to other armies so you have to adapt to playing against them - pick on units you can take down easily, killing whole units to try to stop WBB rolls. Pick on Necron models where you can to try to force a phase out - but remember, once into turn 6 the Necrons can no longer be phased out so don't go picking on Necron models at this time just to get them all to vanish!

The Necron army has it's fearsome elements and great combination units but so does any army. And like any other army it has many weak points which can be exploited.

oatish
02-05-2005, 01:36
Thanks for all of the advice. I am feeling that a *very* fast Necron army may be the key to my success. Are Destroyer Lords worth it? I would be very tempted to make an army that would make Eldar and their Dark kin jealous of my speed with Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers, Wraiths and a Destroyer Lord. Hmmm... Could such a list work?

oatish

mostholycerebus
02-05-2005, 04:10
Necrons aren't an unbeatable army, but they are a pretty good army. They are also one of the best armies to start with, and one of the hardest to figure out. Once you get how they work, they can be pretty easy to out manuever though. So, for players of low to moderate skill, Necrons definitly have an advantage. For players of high skill, Necrons have a disadvantage as they are somewhat limited in what they can do with their list.

Does "opponent friendly" mean "****-weak poser" list? Might I suggest that if your group worried more about learning how to beat each other, and less about making a friendly list, they might have learned through experience how to beat Necrons reliably by now.

Scythe
02-05-2005, 06:53
'opponent friendly' isn't weak list. It is not a boring list. Sure you can bring 60 warriors, 2 monoliths and a lord with a veil and resurrection orb. Effective? Yes. Interesting to play against? No. You're gaming for fun, and not alone. Making such a dull list isn't fun for anyone playing against it, and I don't have much fun or tactical challenge commanding such force either.

Wiseman
02-05-2005, 11:07
the only time ive come across a power gaming necron player was when they took three full squads of both types of destroyers, and 2 lords on destroyers with orbs and 3minimum squads of warriors. Other then that, most necron armies arnt to overbalancing

Scythe
02-05-2005, 11:33
That isn't so bad when you realize that those 24 destroyers (15 normal, 9 heavy) cost 1335 pts together...

oatish
03-05-2005, 03:56
The appeal of the Necrons to me is that they are robots (I came second place in a dance comp. for doing the robot and love Daft Punk) and because they are the Ultimate villians. What draws people to this army? Is it the Monolith and easy painting?

oatish

Sgt John Keel
06-05-2005, 16:31
The appeal of the Necrons to me is that they are robots (I came second place in a dance comp. for doing the robot and love Daft Punk) and because they are the Ultimate villians. What draws people to this army? Is it the Monolith and easy painting?

oatish

Probably the easy painting, and the fact that the army have the possibility of being quite immortal. (Res. Orb Lord, 2 Monoliths, and Warriors and Immortals) The background is very interesting too.

However, that army is quite aggrivating to play against if you don't have a few strong assault units or you can drop templates like there's no tomorrow.

As the others said, as long as you use the other units they could be mildly interesting to play against. In particular Flayed Ones, Tomb Spyders and Scarabs.

/Adrian

Khaos_Panzer
08-05-2005, 18:04
No army is indestructible, it depends on how you play... even if you are a cheesy bastard, there's always a way of beating you. I've never played against Necrons (newbie here), they are powerful, but from what I've heard... very fragile.

mattjgilbert
08-05-2005, 19:25
The appeal of the Necrons to me is that they are robots (I came second place in a dance comp. for doing the robot and love Daft Punk) and because they are the Ultimate villians. What draws people to this army? Is it the Monolith and easy painting?

oatish

Will you Be Back to try and get 1st place next time ;) :D

boogle
08-05-2005, 19:45
try not taking the resurrection orb for a few games or a destroyer heavy army or something like that

oatish
08-05-2005, 23:17
Will you Be Back to try and get 1st place next time ;) :D

lol Unfortunatley, I wll be graduated so unable to win but I will never stop doing the robot in front of large crowds! Anyways... It seems the key to making an "opponet friendly" list with the Necrons is to take a list with variety and untits that are usually forgotten. Is there any list in particular that seems to be able to hammer the Necrons? Just curious what to expect if such a thing comes my way.

oatish

Dirty Fingers
08-05-2005, 23:56
Necrod Lord: Staff of Light, Resurrection Orb

10 Immortals (Lord goes here)

12 Warriors
12 Warriors
12 Warriors

1 Monolith
1 Monolith

Total: 1500 points.

That's what i call friendly :D .... and appallingly boring.

Scythe
09-05-2005, 07:40
You have a very strange definition for friendly......

;)

rammo_73
09-05-2005, 14:26
I love my Necron force. I have an unreasonably large Necron army for not having a single Piriah, flayed one, Monolith or any C'tan. Also I use almost exclusivley old models...it's pretty hillarious, I always get compliments on my army.
40 Wariors, 6 Imortals, 4 Lords (don't ask why I have 4 I just kinda aquired them), 5 destroyers, 1 heavy destroyer (I often switch it over to a normal destroyer though), and an **** ton of scarabs (I have enough scarabs to fill up 3 to 4 fast atack choices...I love swarming the hell out of people because it pisses them of real bad)

They do seem way overly powered against medium ranged armies. Against the Tau however they are hard to use...scarabs often will be the deciding factor in such battles. I always use lots of cover but Tau players always get me bad with the "Smar Missile Systems".

Eldar are sometimes hard to fight (for me anyways) the have some decently ranged weapons and impossible to kill vehicles (I always get ad rolls...never enough sixes on my to wound roll...even if I do get a bunch the upgrades on the Eldar tanks make it able to ignore some rolls)

Tyranids are a royal pain to play againts with my Necrons. I have only won once and that was due to my cunning and not brute force.

Orks are way easy to kill, it's just a matter of killing them before they get too close...and that's really easy to do...I've never lost against Orks and I have played them about 8 times...the #1 thing with Orks is to never ever waste any points on scarabs or any other close combat specialists....you'll regret it every time.

Space Marines are a special case. They have real good armor so it's not possible to beat the armor with AP as far as Wariors go. Space Marine vehicles alway fall victim to my Gaus weaponry though espiciall since they are so *******' slow compared to Tau and Eldar. The best way for Space Marines to beat the Necrons is to not waste time and points on vehicles because it's a futile effort. Necrons are pretty evenly matched with Space Marines...untill it comes to the wbb rolls *smile hugely* although I play both Space Marines and Necrons I will almost allways play as Necros.

As far as Imperial Guard goes...I played them only once and it was a 40K in 40 minute game. It was very even, especially since I had a crap ton of scarabs and units compared to him...but he had a Basilisk that tore me up every turn. If I rembmer corectly it was either a draw or a very narrow victory either way.

So...yeah...sorry about the huge post...it's a monster.

oatish
10-05-2005, 00:12
How does all the necron players paint their bots?? I dont really want to go traditional "all metal" but I can't see lots of other schemes I like. How do you all do it?

oatish

rammo_73
10-05-2005, 03:00
I go all metal and use a chestnut ink wash and get a real cool aged and rusted look. Also I put scorpion green on the inside of the rib cage for a mysterious and creepy look. I do have a few ceramic jobs I atempted...they look decent though.

Scythe
10-05-2005, 08:36
All metal here, tough I'm regretting it a bit now. The ceramics in the army book look very interesting, as well as the mixure schemes (metal/ non-metal).

mattjgilbert
10-05-2005, 09:38
Should be in the painting forum I guess but.... :)

I go purely for speed. Spray all models Boltgun metal. Thin black ink wash. Heavy drybrush (using a tank brush) with chainmail/silver.

Works a treat. Models look great and paint up in record time. No fancy metal colour schemes with my 'crons I'm afraid ;)

[Edit] - typo!

rammo_73
10-05-2005, 21:42
Necrons deserve love. I take my time on mine. I realy suguest that people put a bright color on the inside of their rib cages, it looks real cool Oh I forgot to mention that I have no tomb spiders either... I have a really strange army.

mattjgilbert
10-05-2005, 21:45
Necrons deserve love. I take my time on mine. I realy suguest that people put a bright color on the inside of their rib cages, it looks real cool Oh I forgot to mention that I have no tomb spiders either... I have a really strange army.

That's not strange! I rarely use my Spyders and am yet to field my Monolith...

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
11-05-2005, 02:59
Oooh...i love wraiths. I borrowed my friends necrons army and he only had 8 pariahs, 10 flayed ones, nightbringer, one lord 10 immortals, 1 monolith, 20 warriors, 3 destroyers, and 6 scarabs. So pretty much not a very interesting army. I didnt take the monolith or the VoD+Res orb on my lord, i took gaze of flame, phase shifter, phylactery and warscyther, stuck him with the flayed ones who marched in front of the pariahs and whenever a unit attacked the flayed ones they would be at ld6 and would most likely fail their terrifying vissage test, hit me on 6's, and with no extra attack they were pretty screwed. My warriors would be on both sides of this combo, and my immortals would sit on the outside with the wraiths and destroyers boosting up 1st turn to get in the enemies face. The scarabs also proved very useful with their disruption field, they just tore vehicles up. Very fun army to play, and i would change my tactics for every game to keep it interesting.

Seriously though, the lord with gaze of flame in the flayed ones unit with the pariah combo is amazing. No one expects it (just watch out for those fearless people...they'll getcha)

rammo_73
11-05-2005, 14:12
Huh...I never thought about that. I'm going to buy me some flayed ones now. Usually I give my Lord VoD and then a Ressurection orb because I go against a lot of people who insta kill and use power weapons, then I attatch him to a squad of almost 20 warriors... my combo allows me to get up close and personal with a lot of guys real fast. That is an awesome combo though. *writes new tactic in notebook*

I really wish though that you could do more than 100 pts of extra stuff on a lord because I would make a squad that everyon hates worse than anything ever...yup.

I really want a monolith though...whenever I think about the possibilities with it I go nuts. It must be so unbelivably usefull. Like, I could use it as move scenery aand use it to protect some of my guys behind and then keep a bunch of guys at the starting zone then bring them in and blow the snot ut of all opposition MU HA HA HA!!! That's probably a pretty common tactic though.