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Walls
24-11-2008, 04:27
Today I picked up a ton of cairn wraiths, banshees and models I can make into spirit hosts if I want. Older models, used, painted. I am stripping them right now.

Anyhow... what are your thoughts on these units? I am fairly new to vampires and from what I have read so far they seem to be a fairly good addition. Just kinda curious as to the veterans players thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

Chiron
24-11-2008, 07:52
In a word... awesome.

The Ethereal ability alone allows them to ignore most opponents heavy artillery and shooting which is the usual bane of skirmishers and fast troops while the large number of attacks and high strength means that a fairly large unit needs to engage them to stand a chance of destroying them using CR.

The banshee's scream attack can also be pretty nasty against armies with an average leadership value and using it in combat is fun too.

Your best use of them is to place them in woods ahead of your troops, then move them out to cut down units that break on your battle line or get a rear charge off so they arent facing enemy characters with magic items

Oberon
24-11-2008, 11:35
If didn't already, consider taking a battle standard in a list with lots of ethereals. They are expensive to heal, and tend not to lose by a lot, BSB will pay itself back when it saves you even one wound.

Lordsaradain
24-11-2008, 12:17
Cairn wraiths are so good I think they are broken. Against armies like empire and orcs and goblins your opponent just doesnt have a chance. Their overpoweredness is made up by the fact that they are virtually useless versus a daemon army, and they are therefore not seen as a tournament competative unit.

Zarahemna
24-11-2008, 13:27
Forget the rest of this stuff, ethereal units look awesome when they are painted well. The fact that they can mince most units with impunity is just extra-awesomeness!

Gokamok
24-11-2008, 14:06
Cairn wraiths are so good I think they are broken. Against armies like empire and orcs and goblins your opponent just doesnt have a chance. Their overpoweredness is made up by the fact that they are virtually useless versus a daemon army, and they are therefore not seen as a tournament competative unit.

Cairn Wraiths did indeed look to be the most used rare choice for VC armies at the UK GT heat 3, in fact, I hardly saw any other rare choices than those (except for my own Varghulf:D), so I believe they're quite competitive in tournaments.

On the matter of Spirit Hosts, I find them to be completely useless, unless you're fighting an opponent with almost no magical attacks. 65 points a base is simply outrageous, especially since the Wraiths do everything better than Spirit Hosts (except for negating ranks).

theunwantedbeing
24-11-2008, 14:15
Vs Daemons, utterly worthless.
Vs Everyone else, A little bit too good.

Dont forget things like spirit host as well though.
They aren't anywhere near as brutal as Carin Wraiths are but they do have their uses as a rather good tarpit.

A Ethereal army can be incredibly powerful (especially so in smaller games to the point of being totally unfair and completely broken against everyone barring daemons).
While you lack numbers and static cobmat res, you are going to be virtually immune to damage.

You can certainly create some very interesting armies using rather a lot of ethereal troops without making the army too broken or unfair. (ie. not putting in many mages).

Chiron
24-11-2008, 14:42
(except for my own Varghulf:D)


I like to use both, the Vargulf adds muscle and allows the Wraiths to March and your opponent looks like he's about to cry when they both charge something :D

Oberon
24-11-2008, 14:59
Cairn Wraiths did indeed look to be the most used rare choice for VC armies at the UK GT heat 3, in fact, I hardly saw any other rare choices than those (except for my own Varghulf:D), so I believe they're quite competitive in tournaments.

On the matter of Spirit Hosts, I find them to be completely useless, unless you're fighting an opponent with almost no magical attacks. 65 points a base is simply outrageous, especially since the Wraiths do everything better than Spirit Hosts (except for negating ranks).

Spirits hosts are awesome, if you can get them through winds of undeath. I have killed about 3 hierophants, two arch-mages, and a few chariots and so on with them, plus the spell itself tends to drain scrolls like no other spell in the lore. No one wants his enemy to have a free, unkillable fear causer, while giving up his own models in the exchange. I would not pay points for spirit hosts though.

Varghulfs are a great rare choice, I tend to use them more as they are cheaper and usually faster.

Gokamok
24-11-2008, 15:23
Spirits hosts are awesome, if you can get them through winds of undeath. [...]

I'll second that, but there's no way I'm paying points for them:D

Malorian
24-11-2008, 15:57
Wraiths are amazing, but you have to be careful with them too.

Since they are so hard to raise, any damage they take is huge. Be very calculating when it comes to things with standard combat res and decent toughness and armor (like dwarf blocks, ork blocks, bret lances, even empire blocks).

To take on these units you'll want at least 6 wraiths, and if you can, make sure to use the helm of command on them to ensure they get the kills they need.

Characters are also deadly to etherel units (if they have special weapons), watch out for mounted characters as they can take on a unit of wraiths on their own as they usually have the armor and toughness to not take any damage, and then pick away at you with their magical weapons (he only needs to do 1 wound to a T3 no armor model to tie combat and any more means you will be crumbling).