PDA

View Full Version : Malekith



adreal
26-11-2008, 00:13
Hey everybody, as I plan to be running malekith around on foot once i get a model built for the guy (in 3000pts games ofcoarse) I'm taking hte time to learn his rules.

Now the question...well more of a clarification really. Malekith has two magic item's, Armour of Midnight, which gives him the heavy armour mundane save (5+) and Spellshield, which going off how I'm reading it gives him the mundane shield save (6+ or +1 to your armour save), which going off my understanding gives him a 4+ save against mundane shooting (and a 3+ save if he doesn't use his Destroyer magic weapon) and his 2+ ward save against mundane attacks, is this correct or am I way off base?

I'm going off the assumtion that spellshield works like any other magic shield the GW have created in that it combines with armour normally (unless you can't otherwise upgrade the armour save i.e Armour of Darkness)

Goruax
26-11-2008, 00:16
He has a Magic Weapon and is thusly forced to use it, by the magic items rules in the BRB.
Also, Malekith doesn't actually have a hand weapon, if you look in his army list entry.

As for the Spellshield, the very first word of it's rules is 'Shield.'
That means it functions as a shield, but with extra magic abilities.

adreal
26-11-2008, 00:40
ok so he can't get a 3+ save in close combat, but am I correct in the assumtion of the 4+ save?

blindingdark
26-11-2008, 07:59
Also, Malekith doesn't actually have a hand weapon, if you look in his army list entry.

actually, the rulebook states that all models are assumed to carry hand weapons, weather it states it or not. i can find nothing in the rulebook stating that a magic weapon must always be used over a mundane one.

so...he could use a hand weapon and sheild, rather than destroyer.

;)

Shamfrit
26-11-2008, 07:59
It's important to know either way, if ever Destroyer should be, well, destroyed or negated, since you'd then get a better armour save in close combat from the parry bonus, but otherwise, afraid he has to use it.

Lordmonkey
26-11-2008, 08:07
I can find nothing in the rulebook stating that a magic weapon must always be used over a mundane one.

Check the magic section, under magic weapons... I think it's there somewhere.

Goruax
26-11-2008, 08:51
Page 121, under Magic Weapons;
"A character that has a magic close combat weapon cannot use any other close combat weapons, although it can carry a shield as normal."

Though I did miss the always-have-a-hand-weapon, sorry.

blindingdark
26-11-2008, 12:00
Page 121, under Magic Weapons;
"A character that has a magic close combat weapon cannot use any other close combat weapons, although it can carry a shield as normal."

Sorry....My Mistake:cries:

ooops, this may have slightly altered the outcome of some of my games. not good. but honestly didnt realise they HAD to use the weapon. does destroyer no count as a HW / Sword ? does the rules description have a ''sword'' prefix ?
if so then i would say that he can use it with the sheild for the extra save.

nosferatu1001
26-11-2008, 12:57
Magic weapons are specifically NOT handweapons unless they have the "hand weapon" special rule - for example look at the magic daggers whcih specifically state they are handweapons.

Again, this is stated in the rules for magic weapons - I suggest giving that section a more thorough read!

(note that magic shields CAN combine with normal hand weapons to give the +1 parry bonus)

blindingdark
26-11-2008, 13:16
Magic weapons are specifically NOT handweapons unless they have the "hand weapon" special rule - for example look at the magic daggers whcih specifically state they are handweapons.

thats actaully the point i was making, that if it has a prefix stating that it is, then this would be ok. such as a magic lance having 'lance' at the beggining, or a magic sword having ''sword'' at the start. if destroyer has a prefix with sword or hand weapon, then this would be acceptable.


Again, this is stated in the rules for magic weapons - I suggest giving that section a more thorough read!

i had admited that i was incorrect about always using a magic weapon if you carry one. if my admision of my mistake was not enough for you, then perhaps i should become your slave, beg for your forgiveness, and beat myself daily for offending you, by forgetting a line in a rulebook as thick as my arm.

if that still not enough, well.....gutted. ;)

BEEGfrog
26-11-2008, 15:15
if destroyer has a prefix with sword or hand weapon, then this would be acceptable.



Only if it said "Hand Weapon", a sword is not automatically a hand weapon, i.e. getting the hand weapon special rules.

blindingdark
26-11-2008, 15:28
A ''hand weapon'' is a non specific weapon that is carried in one hand and can come in any shape / size. a sword is covered by this description hence would count as a hand weapon, unless its great, doulble-handed etc. if im wrong forgive me, but what possible situation would a sword not be a hand weapon ?

BEEGfrog
26-11-2008, 16:09
A ''hand weapon'' is a non specific weapon that is carried in one hand and can come in any shape / size. a sword is covered by this description hence would count as a hand weapon, unless its great, doulble-handed etc. if im wrong forgive me, but what possible situation would a sword not be a hand weapon ?

There is a difference between an item's name, what it is called, what it counts as and what it actually is at the core of its existence.

Under WHFB rules a hand weapon is something that has the hand weapon special rules, just like a great weapon is something that has the great weapon special rules.

A sword may have the GW rules, the HW rules, some other special rules or none of these. Every example of where a sword counts as a hand weapon actually specifically mentions it in one way or another. But each needs to be looked at on a case by case basis as a sword is not necessarily a hand weapon, although most mundane, single handed swords are specified as hand weapons.

Nurgling Chieftain
26-11-2008, 16:25
...what possible situation would a sword not be a hand weapon ?When it's a magic weapon. :p

blindingdark
26-11-2008, 17:02
Under WHFB rules a hand weapon is something that has the hand weapon special rules, just like a great weapon is something that has the great weapon special rules.

fair point. im at home now with my BRB, you are quite right.

Just checked the DE book too, The description under destroyer does not state it is a hand weapon, sword, or anything else. so i guess its a resounding no.

:)

nosferatu1001
26-11-2008, 18:22
i had admited that i was incorrect about always using a magic weapon if you carry one. if my admision of my mistake was not enough for you, then perhaps i should become your slave, beg for your forgiveness, and beat myself daily for offending you, by forgetting a line in a rulebook as thick as my arm.

if that still not enough, well.....gutted. ;)

Sorry, that was meant to be a "smiley" suggestion to reread the magic weapons section - as it seemed there were a few bits in there that you were unsure on. Sorry if you took it to be harsher than it was meant!

As stated - it MUST say "hand weapon" for you to get the parry bonus. "Sword" is not defined in the rulebook, so would not count as a hand weapon.

blindingdark
29-11-2008, 01:37
Sorry, that was meant to be a "smiley" suggestion to reread the magic weapons section - as it seemed there were a few bits in there that you were unsure on. Sorry if you took it to be harsher than it was meant!

That's OK, no harm done.

and...... you were correct, so i cant complain. :)

D-Archangel
30-11-2008, 03:50
Page 121, under Magic Weapons;
"A character that has a magic close combat weapon cannot use any other close combat weapons, although it can carry a shield as normal."


the way I interpret this rule is, a character cannot use a magic weapon and a normal close combat weapon, so you can never get an extra attack by buying an extra handweapon. as far as I used to believe, you can actually buy him a magic weapon and (for instance) a great weapon, and decide which one you use before combat.

guess I was wrong, or are there other people playing like this?

Kalec
30-11-2008, 22:11
You were wrong, though that does not mean other people don't play this. This sort of question comes up pretty often, so there are bound to be people that play it wrong.

You are correct that a character with a magic hw and a hw would not get an extra attack. This isn't much of an issue, since there are so few magic hand weapons to begin with, and there are multiple weapons that just use two hands and confer an extra attack to avoid all this hassle.

Geddonight
02-12-2008, 15:30
Kalec, that's not entirely true:

The Dark Elves have a magical weapon (Dagger of Hotek) which specifically says you can use it and the regular hand weapon to gain the bonus +1 attack.

I'm sure there are other instances in Army Books which I do not own, but I'm new to Fantasy so couldn't speak to it.

Cheers!

Kalec
02-12-2008, 23:59
Its the exception that proves the rule. Since the dagger specifically states that it can be used with a normal hand weapon, it also says that normally a magic weapon could not be used with a normal hand weapon.