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View Full Version : Tendrils of Tzeentch almost pointless?



Rabid Bunny 666
30-11-2008, 21:08
Don't know if this has cropped up before, but i just noticed that Tendrils of Tzeentch is 10 points more than a Sorcerer Lord can take in Daemonic Gifts, meaning the only thing in the army that can take it is a Daemon Prince with at Magic Level. Seems a tad obsolete then.

Einholt
30-11-2008, 21:17
On the contrary its the only way I run Tzeentch Magic in the lord slot, this ability all but Guarantees Infernal Gateway. I do not know the actual statistics, but rolling 5 dice with the Reroll I am yet to fail in any way out of many many dice rolls for it. By many I would estimate well over 500.

Rabid Bunny 666
30-11-2008, 21:21
Fair enough, i was just thinking it would only be worth it on a fully pimped out DP, so you'd be forking out 520 points on one Level 4 Magic user.

Nurgling Chieftain
01-12-2008, 00:10
Yeah, but that's only <150 points more than a similarly kitted sorceror lord, and it's a fricken' Daemon Prince. Well, that, and cannonball bait, but hey.

EvC
01-12-2008, 04:05
Yes, shockingly a gift that can only be taken on a Daemon Prince is best off on a Daemon Prince instead of a different model that cannot take it...

Harwammer
01-12-2008, 13:30
how can you call tendrils almost pointless when you have forsaken in the list!?

yoshimo
01-12-2008, 15:13
I don't feel that a re-roll in the magic phase is as useful as -d3 from the S of the inevitable barrage of arrows/bolts/magic missiles which is going to claim your 575 VP DP's life and as they cannot be both taken...

goodz
01-12-2008, 16:50
i like tendrils a bunch, i really wanted a model with tendrils and blood of tezzeetch but i don't own a deamon prince and miss read what magic items i could take:P

I miss a decent shot at irrisitable forceo n my gate, but its still a great item

theunwantedbeing
01-12-2008, 17:07
Tendrils is a good item.
Re-rolling a dispel dice is brilliant, as is re-rolling a casting dice. You can avoid the first miscast then!

Certainly not obsolete at all.
You dont want your expensive daemon prince miscasting do you?

Lord Khabal
01-12-2008, 23:10
assuming you roll the gateway... a lvl 4 dprince has a 33,3% chance of not getting it, and that is why i dont play with it....

WLBjork
02-12-2008, 06:24
Re-rolling a dispel dice is brilliant, as is re-rolling a casting dice. You can avoid the first miscast then!

Is that specified with the Tendrils?

The BRB states "Unless otherwise specified, a reroll cannot cause a spell to be cast with irresistable force, nor can it prevent a miscast".

(I seem to remember back in 6th ed. most of the rerolls did specify otherwise).

KillbotFactory
02-12-2008, 06:39
It is specified as part of the gift's description.

This thread was meant to imply that demon princes are pointless then I sorta agree, that gift on the other hand is very good assuming you have somebody to take it on.

shartmatau
03-12-2008, 00:39
I don't understand why people on this forum seem to think that Daemon Prince in the Warriors book is bad.

Lets take a look at why the DP is good. (why I use one and he consistently proves worthwhile)

Flying
Terror
Wizard
Str 5 with 5 Attacks
Tgh 5
Not a large target
Can Challenge but isn't forced to like other characters


Now a Sorceror Lord on a disc or a dragon are useful. I'm not saying they aren't.
The DP offers the Chaos army something useful, mobile/terror causing/caster that can hide behind other units.

He can't break ranks and frankly can't take on a ranked unit in combat on his own. Which a lord on dragon might be able to do, depending on the magic items you give him. But the DP can fight warmachines and skirmishers and some monsters. His magic can take down multiple units in a game, and he can take a shooting gift as well as others.

For example, in one game of mine. DP takes Lore of Fire. In turn one, he moves behind some trolls but has LOS to an eagle and unit of fast cav. Fireball, Fiery Blast, and Bloodcurdling Roar take both of those units down in one turn. The rest of the game he spent manuvering and casting. Which took rank bounuses off of 4 units. Never being in combat throughout the game. Then on the last turn, took apart a bolt thrower with magic missile, shot apart a unit of archers, and caused a second bolt thrower to run from terror.

Now of course this is just one game, and he is not the best choice for some army lists. But the DP can be an amazing asset to a Warriors army when used well and given a good combo of gifts.

Mine is Lvl4 Caster, Bloodcurdling Roar, Conjoined Homunculus, Tendrils of Tz.

The Homunculus is not really worth it unless you are playing Tz DP. I'm going to change the Homunculus to Acid Ichor. So when he does charge skirmishers or a monster, any wounds he gets may help him win combat.

Anyway, people may not want to play with him. But any of you who think it may be good should definitely consider it.
Cheers.

AMWOOD co
03-12-2008, 13:34
On the 'Get you by' list we had between books, I had a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with the Lore of Death kill off Volkmar and his War Alter and then hold against a unit of 10 inner circle knights for 5 rounds of combat. I never won a round of combat, but that stubborn 8 just wouldn't give the poor knights a break (pun unintended but left because I like it).

Now, I haven't yet used a Deamon Prince, but I've got a battle blanned. I plan to use a DP of Tzeetnch with Word of Agony, Fury of the Blood God and Soporific Musk. He will be a supporter to my Marauder Horsemen or whoever else is available for combat and will be raining magical death all the time.

As for Tendrils, I seems like what I used the Will of Tzeentch for the most often with Galrauch before. I think it's great, just not what I'll use 'this time'. Maybe in battle number two; I do that kind of thing.

Rabid Bunny 666
03-12-2008, 14:05
Mine is Lvl4 Caster, Bloodcurdling Roar, Conjoined Homunculus, Tendrils of Tz.

The Homunculus is not really worth it unless you are playing Tz DP. I'm going to change the Homunculus to Acid Ichor. So when he does charge skirmishers or a monster, any wounds he gets may help him win combat.

Anyway, people may not want to play with him. But any of you who think it may be good should definitely consider it.
Cheers.

Conjoined Homunculus is Sorc only...

shartmatau
03-12-2008, 14:53
Thats correct Rabid, and the DP is a Sorceror if you choose to give him magic.

Rabid Bunny 666
05-12-2008, 00:04
I though that Sorceror only meant that only Chaos Sorcerors, the Hero and Lord choices, could take it, not a DP

goodz
05-12-2008, 04:24
umm why don't deamon princes have to challenge? I thought it was all chaos carachters..:O

yoshimo
05-12-2008, 08:42
because he doesn't have eye of the gods

Djekar
05-12-2008, 12:17
EotG says that any character that can challenge must do so, not every model with the Eye of the Gods rule itself. Sorry chaos warrior champions, you just got served.

~Porcelain

Lord Khabal
05-12-2008, 12:18
The deamon prince, unlike all other WOC characters does not has EOTG rule. therefore he doesnt has to challenge. But he sucks anyway!!!

Djekar
05-12-2008, 12:26
You're missing my point. The EotG rule says that all characters that are able to challenge must do so, not that all characters with the EotG rule. Is the DPrince a character? If so, then if he is able to challenge, he must do so.

Soul of Iron
05-12-2008, 12:34
And all the units that have to use that rule have the "EotG" specifically marked on them. The demon prince does not.

shartmatau
05-12-2008, 13:01
And all the units that have to use that rule have the "EotG" specifically marked on them. The demon prince does not.

Exactly.
A unit doesn't use a rule if the unit does not have that rule.

Since we are talking about army wide rules I'll use those as examples.

Will of Chaos - Only units that have the Will of Chaos rule are able to reroll panic tests. Even though this is an army wide rule, it is still listed in each and every unit as a rule that they follow.

Eye of the Gods is an armywide rule but only units that have EoTG use the rule. This is why a warshrine gives unit champions EoTG.

Undead in the Vampire Book - An armywide rule but every unit has it listed as a rule they follow in their unit description. Otherwise they would not follow that rule.

Does this make sense? Its listed as an armywide rule because several units use it. BUT... Only units that have it listed in their unit descriptions use it.

Daemon Princes do not follow the Eye of The Gods rule because they do not have it.
Just the same as Galrauch does not have it, and he is also a character.

Soul of Iron
05-12-2008, 13:12
Imagine Galrauch rolling on the EotG table.

"+1 Toughness!!! NICE!"

EvC
05-12-2008, 14:36
You're missing my point. The EotG rule says that all characters that are able to challenge must do so, not that all characters with the EotG rule. Is the DPrince a character? If so, then if he is able to challenge, he must do so.

You ahve it ****-backwards. Go read it again. It says Chaos MODELS must always issue challenges. Now what say you? ;)

dread lord
05-12-2008, 14:43
You ahve it ****-backwards. Go read it again. It says Chaos MODELS must always issue challenges. Now what say you? ;)

I say that the book was writen by some one with a poor grasp of english and/or warhammer in genaral (my spelling non with standing ;) )

the_picto
05-12-2008, 22:15
To get the thread back on topic slightly, can tendrils alter your opponents dice? It just says each player turn a dispel or power dice can be rerolled. The item doesn't specify it has to be one of yours.

theunwantedbeing
06-12-2008, 00:48
It says power or dispel dice per player turn.....so RAW, yes you can alter your opponents dice. Although that's clearly not the intent of the rule :P

shartmatau
06-12-2008, 02:04
well Tendrils says, the character may reroll...
So the character has no control over enemy dice, so no he can't reroll enemy dice.
You can use it per player turn because its both power dice (on your turn) and dispel dicn (on the enemy turn).