PDA

View Full Version : Tactica Dogs of War



Jericho
08-12-2008, 22:35
Before the discussion begins, I want to request that the discussion limits itself to pure Dogs of War armies wherever possible. There are countless ways to include DOW in other armies, but that's discussion deserving of separate threads IMO.

Why post a Tactica for a "dead" army like the Dogs of War?

Like Chaos Dwarfs, lots of people know about them but haven't seen them in real life
They are incredibly interesting fluff-wise
They still have some of the best models in WHFB history
They can be really difficult to use, especially against heavy hitting new books!

I'm sure you can add to the list, these are just the first few to pop into my head!

Like other tactica threads, I would love to see some discussion about army composition, tactics, formations, etc. There are some extremely interesting RoR, special characters, and of course Ogre Kingdoms units really add some flair to the army. The versatility of units like Maneaters and Leadbelchers can give the army some much needed punch in this era of hard-hitting units.

I would love to go through the Heroes, standard units, and RoR for the army right off the bad, but unfortunately I have exams and term papers due this week. So when I finish writing an essay on identity formation in "American Psycho" I will happily share some of my experiences with the army (dating back to the tail end of 5e, I bulked out my collection and bought the army the summer before 6e was released :p).

Cheers, my fellow Tileans :D

Kalec
08-12-2008, 22:45
The dogs of war units and characters just aren't very good. Volands Venators are decent, Long Drongs pirate slayers are nice against armies without much shooting, duelists are almost good, pikemen are unique, and the rest is pretty bad. The light cannons are used because they are needed oh so badly, but don't hold a candle to empire or dwarf cannons.

Jericho
08-12-2008, 22:51
Thanks for the quick reply, definitely gives me some hope for discussion :D Yes, many (most?) of the units in the army are overpriced, especially when compared to the most recent army books. However, there are still some nice advantages to the army. Most notably the RoR have champions with Hero statlines, and they surrender no additional VP if they get killed in challenges. At the end of the day, you're not playing the list for the Light Cannons or the standard regiments. They could definitely be better, but carefully choosing which units to take and when to upgrade to RoR can still give you some pretty useful combos.

Before I launch into the full army review, I'll make a quick note of the idea that inspired this thread. I happened to look over at my desk, which has a unit of Maneaters sitting on it. I was thinking about how these guys might be used in a similar way to Chaos Spawn to really help protect flanks and our backfield.

They are more expensive than Spawn of course, but they are still quite versatile and are actually more survivable in a lot of ways. Heavy armor and brace of handguns makes for a very versatile model. He can shoot surprisingly effectively, he's tough, he's Stubborn and ITP, and he still dishes out 5 S5 attacks in combat. Placing one of these monsters on guard duty for your hill full of Crossbowmen and War Machines can drastically reduce the threat from enemy flyers and fast cav, meanwhile the Maneater can still contribute to the shooting phase.

With little real competition for Special slots in the DOW list, it's pretty easy to squeeze 2 units of Ogres into a list without taking away your war machines or some of your more elite RoR units (Manflayers, Slayer Pirates, etc.).

Bloodknight
08-12-2008, 22:57
Actually the dependence on Ogres to get a semi competitive list out of the DoW list nowadays has almost killed my love for the DoW. You can only lose so much before it gets tedious, and since I hate the OK ogres, I don't want them in my army. I prefer city state armies.

Jericho
08-12-2008, 23:07
At first I felt the same way. I didn't want to be "that guy" who has to compromise his vision of the army to be competitive. But the more I thought about it, the less it bothered me. Ogres exist in the core DoW lists, in the form of crappy generic Ogres and crappy-yet-expensive Golfag's Ogres. They have always been in the fluff, and especially the new Pirate Maneater fits in with the mercenary theme beautifully.

A city state army might not have the Dwarfs (Slayer Pirates), Dark Elves (Manflayers), duelists (I use Mordheim models, Marienbergers with pistols to be precise) and Ogres that I like to sprinkle into army lists once in a while, but many Dogs of War players embrace the ragtag look of an interracial army.

Bloodknight
08-12-2008, 23:31
What I meant is that often DoW armies now look like OK armies with a few DoW thrown in instead of the other way round.

I like the RoRs, that's why I bought the army. Good models, all of them. (I am currently at about 9K of DoW, and still haven't got half of the RoR I want to have).

Jericho
14-12-2008, 06:57
Almost done with exams, just one more on Tuesday and then I'm done for a few weeks. I'll probably be spending the majority of my Christmas break working on either my Dogs of War or the new Chaos army I'm beginning to plan/purchase. There's a big tourney on Feb 9/10 and I would love to bring out a Fantasy army. 40k is just bleh, biggest bucket of dice wins.

Anyway, I'm playing a game (or two maybe) tomorrow with my Dogs. I'm almost done painting my Voland's Venators regiment, and it'll be fun to test them out for the first time. Should be much better than the regular Knights. S4 and the cheap hero should be a little more punishing than the regular dudes. I'll be tossing in a super-cheap Mercenary General as well for a bit more punch. The entire unit is 350 pts and should pack a lot more punch than their appearance would suggest.

I'll also be trying out the solo Maneater tactic I mentioned earlier, having him protect flanks along with Duellists or simply protect my war machines. Should be interesting to see how that goes.

Jericho
15-12-2008, 01:12
OK wow, I just got back from my 2 games this afternoon and I'm suddenly excited about playing my Dogs again. I completely obliterated 2 armies at 2k, Brets and High Elves.

I shot the Bretonnians to bits, got off a couple of minor spells, and finished the stragglers off with Pikemen. The High Elves had me concerned. He had 4 levels of magic, bound items and the +d3 PD banner, and all I was packing was a level 2 mage with Scroll and Power Stone (I refuse to take level 1 w/ 2 scrolls, makes the game boring as hell). I got a little lucky with magic, pulling off Irrestistable Force when I needed it (AOE damage spells when in range of 3-4 units) and the HE mages miscast twice, but the story of the game was once again my shooting. None of his units made combat with any numbers or static CR.

The list performed admirably. The Goblin Hewer absolutely mulched units in every game. The cannon flubbed its rolls once or twice when I really wanted it to go well (misfires for bounces etc.) but they still picked off a Damsel and a ton of rank and file in the 2 games. The Pikes never took on full units, so they cleaned up even against a HE Prince in combat (his unit got shot out from under him, and he really had no option but to fight on his own).

The huge assist goes to the solo Maneater in both games. Game 1 against Brets he shot down a few knights, then sacrificed himself to divert Knights of the Realm, allowing me plenty of time to shoot the **** out of them with war machines. I used him like a Great Eagle (old WE habits die hard), angling chargers out into the middle of nowhere. He's nice too, since he can shoot reasonably well while moving, stand and shoot, 5 S5 attacks in combat, ITP, stubborn. All good things.

Here's the army list I was using.

Mercenary General (the cheapo Lord of awesomeness) HA, Shield, Barded Horse, Sword of Might, Talisman of Protection 155 pts
Ran with the Venators. They pack a ton of punch that people don't expect from human cav. Cheap too, 350 for the combination.

Paymaster HA, Enchanted Shield, Crossbow 79 pts
Ran with Ricco and Company. Safest place for him, he did exactly nothing in any of the games, except pass 2 armor saves against Brets before I broke and chased off the unit. Which is exactly what I want from him, stay out of trouble.

Level 2 Wizard, Scroll, Power Stone, Barded Warhorse 159 pts
Did surprisingly well! I love using Light or Death, good spells and easy to cast.

(Goblin Hewer)

Ricco's Republican Guard x21 312 pts

Pikemen x22, FC, HA 272 pts
Neither unit really saw too much action, since my shooting/magic did pretty well. Just mopped up some under-strength units of infantry and a severely depleted unit of Knights Errant.

Duelists x8, Pistols 72 pts
Died horribly, but they definitely took one for the team. Distracted Knights a bit, and against Elves they screened against magic missiles for 2 turns before going up in smoke.

Crossbowmen x10, musician 90 pts
Solid.

Voland's Venators x5 195 pts
Solid.

Maneater HA, Brace of Handguns 90 pts
Amazing bodyguard, anchoring flanks or protecting the hill full of shooty death. I want two of them from now on (two solos that is).

Manflayers x10 363 pts
Did great, they chewed up units like crazy in both games. Stripped tons of ranks off HE, and killed off Fast Cav, peasants, and Pegasi against the Brets. Never took a wound. Any auto-hit shooting or magic missiles give these guys headaches, but these guys are usually my gamebreakers.

Cannon 85
Solid.

Goblin-Hewer 130
OMG amazing. Killed a bucket of models in both games, only missed once due to BS5.

Thoughts for next time? I'm strongly considering taking this army to tournaments, with the following tweaks. Drop the Lord, and replace with more magic. Drop the Duellists, take another Maneater. Possibly thin the Pikes down to 20 if I need points for the above.

jamwa
16-12-2008, 21:22
Hello!

thought Id drop in and throw my piece in!

Im a DOW player myself and at the moment my army has managed to take on most armies at the local club and win/hold my own

I'll post my army list in the army list section when i find my exact list somewhere under all my stuff :S

What ive found with Ogres in DOW when I use them I only use at most one unit of maneaters (2 or 3) armed with braces of handguns and use them in conjunction with at least one or two units of duellists armed with pistols.

Favourite ROR's to use - Lost Legion and Slayer Pirates. Slayer Pirates ive found that most people I play keep away from them or underestimate them and try and charge them only to get stuck in combat and 3/4 of the time lose the combat and flee. Lost Legion for having a hero and 4 crossbow men at the front of a pikemen unit just the fact you can pick off a rank (with luck) before your opponent charges and then stand and shoot.

Favourite character to use - Too many to pick

Dark Emissary - lvl 4 wizard as a hero and some fairly fun magic if it works.he is a must in my army

Lucressa Belladonna (sp?) - another magic user but a lord. Mainly I enjoy using her poisons. Always funny watching a game start and having a bulked up paymaster with poison weapons able to handle himself in combat (even win sometimes!). The poisoning enemy characters is even better if you get the rolls seeing a vampire army starting the game with 3 characters on 1 wound (the only one not affected by the poison then killed by a lucky cannon in the first turn!)

Last few games using DOW have been amazing!

Lizardmen - Massacre

Straight up slaughter. Duellists doing gunning down skinks everywhere! 3 maneaters and 2 units of 10 pistol duellists bringing lead death to 20 saurus warriors and a slann! Pikemen doing not much other than Lost legion shooting down terradons. 10 pistol duellists taking a charge from kroxigors and standing and shooting one to death and then beating the other in combat with only 1 duelist killed. Probably didnt help at that point everything but the skink priests and one unit of skins ran. Paymaster ended up running off brac of pistols inhand and hunting down a skink priest on his own.

Dwarfs - TBH i dont know what happened went up against the guy incharge of the club and hes really really good when using his dwarfs...normally. Everything just managed to go right for me! Slayer pirates got charged by his slayers they then spent 3 turns in close combat with only 7 casualties after 3 turns for both sides combined! Paymaster got taken out in second turn as he knew it was my weakness but only one unit of duelists and my lvl 2 wizard fled and then rallied! Pikemen with duellists on both sides charging large blocks of dwarfs somehow I managed to make the 25 dwarf warrior unit break and then duellists just started flank attacks across his battle line pistol round into the side then charging the next turn.


Funniest game ever using DOW? - 9 man bretonnian knights ran down 10 duellist and end up 1 inch infront of the front of my cannon. 1 grapeshot later battle standard bearer is dead along with 4 knights. They flee and manage to panic another unit of knights and both flee of the table.


Hope I didnt ramble too much! feedbak/discussion would be great!

Jericho
17-12-2008, 00:19
Good to hear your Dogs have been working out lately. Loading up on Duellists/Maneaters is pretty solid they are very versatile units.

I too have a soft spot for Lucrezzia Belladonna, she's very fun to use. I have often used her stat boost on Ricco because he surrenders no VP if killed. Suddenly he's got the combat stats of a Lord, killing blow on his two hand weapons, and there is no real downside if he gets killed. Boosting up a character with her abilities, then having someone case Bear's Anger on that character can make for an absolute combat monster.

Anyway where are the rules for taking a Dark Emissary/Truthsayer in regular games? Hopefully not in any of the Chronicles books, all I have is 2004 and there's no realistic way to get your hands on the other ones.

Bloodknight
17-12-2008, 00:51
I hope nobody kills me for posting this up, but since GW don't have them on the website anymore and the Chronicles are out of print: enjoy.

Jericho
17-12-2008, 00:58
This is a pdf that GW posted for download at some point, so I'm sure there's no problem freely distributing it. It's not like we're scanning pages out of army books :)

Thanks, I'll be sure to print a copy and stick it in my Chronicles 2004 book along with my Manflayers printout.

Commissar Vaughn
17-12-2008, 01:08
Well my DOW didnt do very well tonight, mostly cos of awful dice rolls and me underestimating how hard the new VCs really are. If Id put one more unit in to that crucial combat against his lords unit Id have done it, but thought it was overkill and sent it after another unit. Oh well we live and learn. Next time Ill have him.

Without an army book, up-to-date rules, special characters (does anyone have the rules for those btw?) and magic items our army will always be the underdog, but they are still the Dogs of War, and they have a nasty bite :evilgrin:

I prefer the classic pike and skirmisher force of rennaisance Europe, the Landsknecht and the like, mostly Infantry with cavalry support. Dont like ogres etc myself, tho I do use halflings!

Ive just had an idea to justify the use of norse berserkers in my more civilized army: Landsknecht were reknown for gettin really drunk, and they often carried zweihanders, so I could use imperial greatswords style models as frenzied mercenary nutters for cuttin people up good yes?

"Landsknechts are as good as the gold you pay them, and last about as long as the beer" as they say.

Slacker
17-12-2008, 03:42
I've been playing around with a bit of DoW listcrafting myself recently, and I've got a question. Is the Ogre Maneater a special or a rare choice for a Dogs of War army? I realize it's a Rare in the OK book, but listed in the rules for using ogres in a DoW army it says all ogre units with the "Dogs of War" rule count as a special in a DoW army.

I've been thinking about going with a thirty-years war style army, couple big blocks of pikes, supported by a few clips of crossbows and duelists...and then a few oddballs, like a couple of ogres and flying bird-men. :D

(You know Gustavus Adolphus would've used 'em if he had 'em.)

RossS
17-12-2008, 03:48
I collected a 1,500 point Dogs of War force over the summer ( I stopped when I realized that it was, in fact, a "dead" army), and I did enjoy the versatility of the list. No one has yet mentioned either Norse marauders or Leadbelchers as units. My marauders (converted Beastmen + Chaos Warriors + Marauder plastics made to look like gladiators) could dependably tear up a lot of infantry, and the Leadbelchers actually made very credible flank guards.

By the end of my campaigns I was mainly using a magic heavy list. Dark emissary, Wizard Lord...you know the works.

The really unfortunate thing about the list is how generally useless pikemen are. They are so expensive for what they do. It makes a true Condottieri army a rather poor proposition.

Slacker
17-12-2008, 03:51
I'd almost use them as a points-denial sort of thing. Run them up the middle of the table, protect their flanks, and dare the enemy to do something to them while the nastier portions of your army flank and pound to pieces.

Darkmaw
17-12-2008, 04:19
Here's my take on this.

Core Fast calvary: Good.

Al Muktar: Bad bad bad! Exp fast cav with a named standard bearer (allow him to be attacked)!

Core Knights: cheap and good, not to mention flexible in their roles.

Core X-bowmen: Cheap ranged unit

Miragliano’s Marksmen: Marksmen are not too bad except you do pay for an expensive champion and standard (in a ranged unit!!).

Volands and his venators: Good buy because it is cheaper than the empire equivalent with a hero. Not to mention it allows you to bring 1 more hero level character to your army.

Besigers: Better replaced with dwarves+shield+Xbow (cheaper too).

Ruglud's orcs: Animosity with shooting= bad! If you make them a RnF unit, its bad since you pay points for X-bow that wont be used. Not to mention, the goblin standard (named std beaer) can be targeted specifically!

Duelists: Duellist+Pistol is a good skirmishing unit. Threat range of 12”.

Vespero's vendetta: Average since duelist with pistol is cheaper than the trooper, although you do get another hero level character in the army.

Mengil’s Manflayers: Good for what they can do but are fragile and expensive.

Lumpin Croops: Good ranger skirmishers if you can keep them alive (although you do pay for the champion, standard again!).

Rare choice cannons: Good!

Bronzino Galloper gun: The cannon costs almost twice the normal (rare choice cannon) but the good thing is they can move away and also allows you to have the “flank” shot if you can move them into the flank. Also to note, Bronzino is a separate character which can leave his unit (if I am not wrong). This allows you to have another extra hero on horse in your army.

Halfing hotpot: Small template and Str 3 makes it less useful. Good thing is its extremely cheap cost.

Ogres: If you can afford the OK Ironguts, they are better due to higher Ld. Otherwise the normal DOW ogres are also a good (and cheap)choice; the loss of the bull charge is not too important.

Long Drong Slayers: Good anvil unit with good close combat ability too. One of the better ROR buys.

Cursed Company: Not that good an anvil since the skeletons are weak fighters and Kruger has only 3 attacks, thus they crumble faster than normal VC variant, esp if they meet a hard hitting unit…(but aren’t they supposed to be an anvil?!!)

Dwarfs: Good anvil unit if kitted with shields. Rock hard ranged unit if they also have X-bows.

Paymaster Bodyguard: Normal humans. Except stubborn in paymaster is inside and guess what? Every unit hitting them WOULD target the paymaster first!!.

Giant: Situational. If you meet a shooty army…easy kill.

Tichi Huichi: T2 cav. If you can survive missile attacks and return attacks in close combat……

Bird men: All I have to say is…CUCKOO!… Flying T3 1 wound guys who are not immune to fear and have measly Str 3 bow coupled with average BS (not even longbow/Xbow),

Makarion
17-12-2008, 04:34
The problem with that otherwise admirable strategy is their weakness to shooting, especially black powder.

Edit: this is, of course, referring to the pikemen (post #16).

Condottiere
17-12-2008, 04:50
A question on the Goblin Hewer came up on another Forum - cross referencing, I discovered that DoW can't take it, at least according to the last published GW list.

SamVimes
17-12-2008, 04:52
Why? The unit itself says it's DoW right?

Slacker
17-12-2008, 05:04
The problem with that otherwise admirable strategy is their weakness to shooting, especially black powder.

Edit: this is, of course, referring to the pikemen (post #16).


Well, I wouldn't suggest doing it against Dwarves or certain Empire builds. Just really theorycrafting. I think a pikes and crossbow list could work with a refused flank, kind of like a dwarf box but not really. I suppose it'd be situational. I will say they need to be supported-I watched a guy with DoW pikes in his Empire army keep them on their own and they got cut to pieces.

Makarion
17-12-2008, 05:22
Yes, a lot of people seem to overlook that the extra attacks are only for frontal fights; they really get smeared by flank charges, and being Mv 4, that's not at all unlikely when left without support.

Admiral Samuel Eden
17-12-2008, 07:03
What do you say to using four units of 35 pikemen, flanked by pistol duelists, with ranged support? I don't know if this would be at all effective as DOW pay a lot of points for troops that are sub par really. The thing here is that pistol duelists are hideous to charge as they stand and shoot with a lot of pistol shots. Assuming that the duelists are large units. The pikes are perfect size for maximizing attacks and combat resolution as seven models can all fight against an enemy five file unit which is the standard. This gives maximum combat resolution and twenty eight attacks with a seven man buffer against shooting. The crossbowmen would remove enemy ranks and kill off enemy units and you would want some light cavalry as charge redirectors. This would have to be at something like 3k. The threat of course is enemy shooting which could thin your pikes fast. Also, DOW Psychology is weak so your troops might run, taking a lot of points. Its just a thought, I play empire not DOW but just an idea. You could use a pegasus captain as a war machine hunter as they are a serious threat.
It really sucks for DOW that their standard units do not get command groups, the lack of standards must really hurt.

SamVimes
17-12-2008, 07:23
Erm...they get command groups. Just really expensive command groups. I'd never take more than 2 pike-units and never more than 25 strong. DoW have a fair selection of ranked units that can be used to anchor the flank of a pike center, and they are cheaper. Pikes are one of those silly units in that the more you have, the less useful they get.

Condottiere
17-12-2008, 07:45
Why? The unit itself says it's DoW right?

That's what I thought, but it seems limited to Dwarves and Empire.

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173172

Darkmaw
17-12-2008, 07:47
I think to think of pikemen as "lesser elf spearmen"

They fight in 1 more rank, "ASF", but less WS, less leadership.

SamVimes
17-12-2008, 07:57
October 2004 Issue of White Dwarf Magazine (US #297 / UK #298)

Did some digging. I knew it could be used

Jericho
17-12-2008, 08:10
Hey I think I actually have that magazine, I worked with the company from about 284-308! Hooray :D

Anyway I agree that 2x 20-25 pikes is all you should ever bother with. You can add in Dwarfs, Slayer Pirates and other fun stuff after your core is looked after. Maybe 3 units if you play 2500+. Support with a mix of Duellists, solo Maneaters and Marauders w/ flails/great weapons. Should be reasonably solid if backed up with enough shooting/magic. The recent games I've played have been won in the movement and shooting phases, magic has helped and combat has merely mopped up stragglers but careful use of Duellists and Maneaters to redirect the enemy has helped immensely. Playing Wood Elves for a year has definitely made me 10x sneakier in the movement phase.

Admiral Samuel Eden
17-12-2008, 18:10
Okay, just a thought anyway. Its silly really, the rules for pikes really need revision, they were always supposed to be very effective forward and the the ancient greeks could bring five pikes to bear in a single phalanx formation. They really need an update.
Duelists with pistols are brilliant units however.
Something tells me that DOW is really messed up, they are ultimately a shooting army when they should be a large, head on combat force that rolls enemies head on and has vulnerable flanks in which the best strategy is to secure flanks and hold the pike line. This would both better suit the way in which pikes were used and reflect the period that they are based on much better.

Jericho
17-12-2008, 20:37
You can play Dogs that way, anchoring your flanks with scenery or Stubborn troops (Maneaters!) but you need shooting to support your combat units because they have a hard time winning on their own. If all pikemen were WS4, and if they had pure ASF in the first round of combat instead of the auto-lose to ASF enemies, then your ability to play a more pure combat army would go up dramatically. Having WS3 means that even a few enemy attacks are likely to hit, wound, and your crummy armor save means they won't be saved either.

You really have to hope/pray to wipe the enemy's front rank when they charge, if you fail to do much damage then you can easily find your unit fleeing. Ricco's unit rolled up 12 hits and 2 wounds against Bretonnians the other day, which would've been disastrous if I hadn't been able to strip that unit down to 2 models before they charged me.

neXus6
17-12-2008, 21:25
I'm not to keen on the real need for ogres and magic/shooting heavy to make a DoW army effective.

I know it's not the same but part of me really feels that using Empire rules with a couple of DoW units for rare choices really does make a more characterful DoW army. DoW are a bit of a mess and have really just been left behind, even more so than Chaos Dwarves, at least they got magic items. :rolleyes:

I am still very tempted to convert up a unit or two of pikemen just because they are pretty impressive even if I don't end up making an Empire or DoW army for them to go in. If I did though I would be sure to keep their flanks covered. :D

At the moment I'm somewhat stuck between pure Bretonnians or Estalia, Tilea or Border Princes using Empire/DoW mix.

RossS
18-12-2008, 04:58
I'm not to keen on the real need for ogres and magic/shooting heavy to make a DoW army effective.

I know it's not the same but part of me really feels that using Empire rules with a couple of DoW units for rare choices really does make a more characterful DoW army. DoW are a bit of a mess and have really just been left behind, even more so than Chaos Dwarves, at least they got magic items. :rolleyes:

I am still very tempted to convert up a unit or two of pikemen just because they are pretty impressive even if I don't end up making an Empire or DoW army for them to go in. If I did though I would be sure to keep their flanks covered. :D

At the moment I'm somewhat stuck between pure Bretonnians or Estalia, Tilea or Border Princes using Empire/DoW mix.

This is what I have taken to doing recently. The Tercios that should be the backbone of the DOW force are better represented by big, hulking blocks of spearmen flanked by handgunners and swordsmen/free company. My converted pikes have been assigned this role, and I've had a lot of fun converting up bands of street fighters and scum to be swordsmen. The pistoliers work brilliantly, too. All in all, you do get a better, more characterful Tilean/Estelian army using the Empire list.

jamwa
18-12-2008, 20:02
I still somehow have a copy of the original Albion campaign book still in one piece! Ive got the WD with the characters aswell as its got my kroot mercenary army list in it aswell (best WD ever!) I will dig it up for you since the GW website has nothing of any use anymore!

Dark emissary casting Fog of Death when facing a artillery army is fun (worked on dwarfs in a previous game somehow managed to cast it and 3 out of 6 war machines lost all their crewmen funniest bit the spell then killed my own cannon crew!)

I use two units of pikemen max any more and it feels like a waste of points as I just cant justify them when i can field a unit of 20 dwarfs with heavy armour, shields and full command for 20pts cheaper than 20 pikemen with light armour and full command.

The pikemen I dont expect much from maybe kill a few enemy a turn in CC. The duellists on the other hand with superior WS4, I4 and 2 attacks each (hand weapon and pistol counts as two hand weapons if im not mistaken?) the ability to stand and shoot with S4 armour piercing attacks guarantees they will pack a punch. (In a previous game had 5 blood knights charge 10man unit 3 blood knights died from stand and shoot last two then only killed two duellists and were then ripped apart by the surviving duelists!). Myself I build my army around the duellists and one unit of 15-20 Slayer pirates. The army is a short range shooting army but most opponents under estimate the fact of me not charging getting a round of pistols into the unit then taking a charge with S&S equalling out too a hell of alot more dead than if i jsut charged.

In a 2500 army I may field 6 units of 10 pistol duellists. 2 to defend pikemen flanks then one unit on one flank and the rest up the other accompanied by 2-3 maneaters. If my opponent doesn't have a strong flank then possibility of up to 30 pistols shots at 6" range will wreak havoc with any unit unlucky enough to be in range not forgetting i arm my maneaters with braces of handguns throwing in another 4-6 shots at 24" range and then 2-3 S5 bull charges if the duellists get stuck in combat

Beorg Bearstruck is another favourite of mine (hero who leads bearmen of urslo) cast bears anger on him and he can take on lords (bears anger negates use of weapons if im right as character fights with their bare hands "like an angry bear" and since Beorg is a werebear and has no weapons it can make him very powerful. I only use him and his unit in 2500+ games a they arent the cheapest unit but if you can get him boosted up he becomes very powerful if you include the fact he has a 4+ ward and he and the rest of his unit get +1 to hit in first round of combat.

One of the main reasons I play DOW is for the fun of it. Nothing better than someone's face when a hotpot kills things! The look on peoples faces when their unit has been killed by a pot of soup is priceless!

Speaking of games my local club has closed until next year but im playing a 2500pt game against high elves (first time playing HE) first week we reopen next year. any tips?

Commissar Vaughn
18-12-2008, 20:39
I still somehow have a copy of the original Albion campaign book still in one piece! Ive got the WD with the characters aswell as its got my kroot mercenary army list in it aswell (best WD ever!) I will dig it up for you since the GW website has nothing of any use anymore!


That would be awesome if you can! I cant find the rules anywhere, not even on the non british GW websites.

Im not sure about the new HE as I havnt faced them yet. I would think lots of duelists and the paymasters bodyguard are essential. Anythin with high WS and/or good armour to take the edge off the elves speed and give u a chance of hitting the weedy gits.

The only problem with pikes is they lose their ASF against HE, which could be very bad. Why do they lose it anyway? No matter how fast you are a 16 foot pike will still be poking you before u get to hit the guy holding the other end. If it wasnt for this fact Id expect 4 ranks of pikes to be a good answer to 3 ranks of spears...

jamwa
18-12-2008, 21:00
That would be awesome if you can! I cant find the rules anywhere, not even on the non british GW websites.

Im not sure about the new HE as I havnt faced them yet. I would think lots of duelists and the paymasters bodyguard are essential. Anythin with high WS and/or good armour to take the edge off the elves speed and give u a chance of hitting the weedy gits.

The only problem with pikes is they lose their ASF against HE, which could be very bad. Why do they lose it anyway? No matter how fast you are a 16 foot pike will still be poking you before u get to hit the guy holding the other end. If it wasnt for this fact Id expect 4 ranks of pikes to be a good answer to 3 ranks of spears...


Not a fan of Paymaster bodyguard tbh! Rather have a block of dwarfs!

Guess they go all ninja and dance on down the pikes to the pikemen on the other end?

Commissar Vaughn
18-12-2008, 21:04
Realy? There one of my fav units! 10 points for ws4, s4, stubborn and heavy armour? I thought that was a bargain. 20 with warbanner and paymasters get a static c-res of 6 which cant be beaten in DOW...

Though I do like the dwarfs, I used to take a unit tooled to the nines, which could shoot a unit of black knights to bits and then sort out the vampire that was with them.

Makarion
18-12-2008, 21:12
What do you say to using four units of 35 pikemen, flanked by pistol duelists, with ranged support?

I think that magic-heavy armies will walk all over you, as will fear / terror-causing opponents. Then there's chariots...

The combination of those three threads covers a wide swath of popular opponents: you will probably struggle to win a game against any of the newer armies (High Elves, Dark Elves, Daemons), as well as solid builds from Tomb Kings, some Wood Elves, any gunline. The Warriors of Chaos, although new, should suit you (unless they go magic heavy of course).

jamwa
18-12-2008, 21:34
Realy? There one of my fav units! 10 points for ws4, s4, stubborn and heavy armour? I thought that was a bargain. 20 with warbanner and paymasters get a static c-res of 6 which cant be beaten in DOW...

Though I do like the dwarfs, I used to take a unit tooled to the nines, which could shoot a unit of black knights to bits and then sort out the vampire that was with them.

bad use of words on my part. Its not that im not a big fan its more a case I prefer to spend the points elsewhere like on dark emissary (lvl4 hero wizard) but since ive got a 2500pt game coming up it maybe time to give paymaster bodyguard another go. Other thing is when someone asks what they are and you answer I find the opponent suddenly turned all his missile weapons and magic on the unit until it goes away as it contains the paymaster! Also im still playing around with my lsit as i havent found the 2000pt army I want to use. still testing alot of things out like how well units work together etc!

Admiral Samuel Eden
19-12-2008, 18:22
Quite true, though DoW can keep up reasonable magic resistance as they have perfectly reasonable wizards, they die quickly against terror. Unfortunately, they have no access to armouries and so have no way of really preventing terror tests. These guys really need to be reformed.

Jericho
19-12-2008, 21:34
Magic defense and leadership really are two of the army's biggest problems. The more you focus on magic defense, the worse your Leadership gets since you don't have a good general. Pretty annoying :p

Most of the time I think you can get away with it. The Leopard Company are a bit more pricey than I would like, but they can be a lot more reliable than regular pikes against VC, Daemons, and other fear/terror causing armies. I suppose some magic can help out with psychology. Lore of Light and Beasts have ways to rally/make units ITP. Light is one of my favorite Lores (highly underrated, since it's so useful and yet so easy to cast all the spells) and maybe taking a level 4 and level 2 Light mage can ensure you'll get Guardian Light.

Now that I think about it, this is a great way to counter VC/Daemons. Cleansing Flare and Burning Gaze both get their strength boosted against Undead and Daemons... you just have to hope that you can get some spells through against some armies that generally fare well in the magic phase.

Admiral Samuel Eden
20-12-2008, 00:24
With my empire army, I had a wizard with lore of light in a building in the middle of the field and he cut to pieces five undead units in one turn with burning flare. Its really, really nasty.

Admiral Samuel Eden
20-12-2008, 00:25
With my empire army, I have put a wizard with lore of light in a building in the centre of the field and he slaughtered five undead units in one turn with that spell.

Dark_Mage99
20-12-2008, 00:50
Jericho -- how have your Maneater's been doing as singles? I would assume they're pretty easy to kill, being T4 and having minimal armour. Do you prefer it to having them in a unit?

RossS
20-12-2008, 03:11
All these Dogs of War threads have got me intrigued about taking the army out for spin again. I was just wondering, since I would love to make use of my skeletons, if the Cursed Company are at all viable. They seem like a very pricey tarpit. Perhaps I am missing something. In an army that does, as several posters have pointed out, have issues with leadership, being undead could certainly be useful. I may take them for a swing.

Makarion
20-12-2008, 13:40
I love the Cursed Company, I truly do, but the only time they have been worth their points [they are normally more likely the Crushed Company] was when I got them to cause Terror with Lore of Death. That was a fun game!

jamwa
20-12-2008, 13:56
In my experience Cursed Company are a tad too expensive but when I have fielded them I've found my opponent seems to spend more time trying to dodge combat with them due to them being undead.

Ive found using truthsayer against armies with alot of fear/terror works well as he is LD9 and isnt bad in combat aswell as being a lvl 3 wizard with 4+ ward and +1 to dispel. his spells work well like gift of life I have found very useful in a cavalry based DOW army (being able to bring back one model in each of my units). One of his other spells boon of courage (being able to make a unit unbreakable for a turn and also rally them if they are fleeing) has worked great in the past against VC.

hippie
21-12-2008, 07:07
personaly i always use the leopard compagny and the piratedwarfs for this i put the dwarfs next to pike men units (they always stand and shoot)and are hard to whip ,out
the leopards are a great protection unit for my paymaster ,i like pikes the look on the opponents face as he charges whit his fleshhounds and being whiped outbefore combat really begins ,i like pikes especially now with the deamons and vampire hype .armies with no shooting ....bring them on baby!

BigRob
21-12-2008, 07:33
The cursed company are great and the official models are great, they should do a plastic set of them to help make undead less human. The problem is, while they are great, to get a proper sized unit costs more than its worth. You will pay alot and the unit will either be shot or avoided. Kreuger has some great magic items though and is a surprise to anyone who doesnt realise how tough he can be.

The better ROR are Ricos boys, Leopard Company, Bearmen(but really only for their leader). I have still to see the Birdmen do anything remotly useful and the alcatnai fellowship may be cheap, but not by enough to justify their abysmal stats.

Jericho
21-12-2008, 20:32
Jericho -- how have your Maneater's been doing as singles? I would assume they're pretty easy to kill, being T4 and having minimal armour. Do you prefer it to having them in a unit?So far they have survived long enough to be extremely useful. I have only played with a solo Maneater twice, as I mentioned earlier, but they were instrumental in both games.

Against the Bretonnians, I used a unit of 8 Duellists with pistols and the solo Maneater to stop his big stompy unit of Knights of the Realm with BSB and a second Paladin. The Duellists soaked the charge of the unit, and since he failed to wipe me out (somehow!) he had to pursue me into a forest. The Maneater immediately jumped into action, walking 1" away from the flank of his unit so that he couldn't charge or reform. He had to spend a while to get out of that forest, meanwhile I had time to shoot the unit up a lot. When he finally charged the Maneater, he was once again stuck in a crappy position facing away from my hill full of Crossbows and war machines.

The opponent called the game before I had a chance to wipe them out. I had lost about 11 models total at that point, and that unit of Knights was going to soak some magic plus fire from a cannon, Goblin-Hewer, crossbows and Manflayers. Odds are extremely good that I would've wiped the unit out, and the only VP I surrendered all game were those sacrificial Duellists and the Maneater.

Against the HE it was a similar story. The Maneater shot up a bunch of units, taking away rank bonuses, and then marched right in front of his White Lions, turned 45 degrees or so and then dared him to charge. The Lions charged, and a unit of Spearmen failed their fear check to combo-charge. The Maneater died horribly to Korhil and his buddies, but the White Lions were drawn way out of position, cutting off some Spearmen and exposing the unit's flank to my war machines. The cannon and Goblin-Hewer then pumped a bunch of S10 hits and 6d3 S4 hits into them, dropping them down to 3 models in a single volley.

Once again the game was called early, since his army was smashed to bits, his survivors were in a terrible state of disarray, and I had barely taken a scratch on any of my units yet.

Hopefully this bit of extra detail proves how useful a solo Maneater can be. I was up against some deadly competition, so he didn't get a chance to play the Tarpit, but he certainly took advantage of his shooting and insane maneuverability to cause massive headaches for the enemy.

Durloth
24-12-2008, 15:01
Anyone interested in DoW shuld come to the Paymaster forum! We haven`t got wery much activity these days, but nothing a few extra members won`t remedy:)

http://www.makephpbb.com/paymaster/index.php?mforum=paymaster

Red_Lep
24-12-2008, 20:23
Anyone interested in DoW shuld come to the Paymaster forum! We haven`t got wery much activity these days, but nothing a few extra members won`t remedy:)

http://www.makephpbb.com/paymaster/index.php?mforum=paymaster

Thanks, just registered.

One question, how does a Truthsayer work out in a DoW army? Its been a little while since I read the rules but doesn't a Truthsayer have decent fighting stats, LD9, and good magic defense? Would those pros overcome the cons of not getting a cannon or Giant?

Jericho
24-12-2008, 20:58
He has reasonable stats, level 3 mostly defensive/unit buff magic, a 4+ ward save, and +1 to dispel. He's pretty good really, especially since you can take another level 4 mage and still have a Ld9 general. I'm not a fan of giants, but it is tough to surrender another war machine. I really like taking a Goblin-Hewer and a Cannon, covers your bases pretty well against big tough targets and hordes of troops.

Orge_ladd
24-12-2008, 22:32
i' curious i have always wanted to start a DoW army.. and i saw asarnil the dragonlord, in the RoRpart of a book.. is he worth then points.. for a lord and a rare

Jericho
25-12-2008, 06:13
You mean a hero and a rare? Or 2 hero slots and one rare if not used in a pure DOW army. He used to be the only dragon available under 2k, but I think the High Elves have stolen the show with that ability now.

Also note that his dragon does have the 3+ scaly skin save that (all?) dragons come with, and he's fairly cheap. Most naked Lords on a Dragon cost more than he does, and you get that nifty -1 to hit ability.

Condottiere
25-12-2008, 08:20
You need to get Asarnil into combat quickly, otherwise he attracts an unholy amount of missile fire; while he gets Dragon Armour, he doesn't have ASF; stilll 4 attacks at WS7 isn't bad, though he'd be better off with a ward save and better AS.

Jericho
25-12-2008, 09:24
WS7 and -1 to hit = many many enemies hitting him on 6's. He definitely needs to get into combat quickly since there's no ward save or anything on him. Any healing spells will be very useful if you can get them (Lore of Light or Truthsayer). Still, he's a pretty decent character for the points and aside from Giants the only way to get Terror into your list.

I guess the spells that upgrade Fear to Terror could do it... but obviously that's not reliable.

tomekjar
25-12-2008, 10:51
WS7 and -1 to hit = many many enemies hitting him on 6's.
...

Well, that would be very nice indeed, but unfortunately -1 to hit penalty is effective only on missile attacks...

I have used Asarnil many times and have come to a conclusion: he cannot be used on his own. He looses combat with any ranked unit with 5 static combat resolution bonus and musician. On the other hand he is a bloody good support for cavalry units, especially when charging from flank arc. Also he is a real threat to enemy's warmachines / gunline. All in all, I like Asarnil, because he is quite cheap flyer, and is very versatile.

Neknoh
25-12-2008, 12:56
Recent thoughts on the building of a Dogs of War army:

A captain on a pegasus makes for a good warmachine hunter, especially given a Sword of Might, Heavy Armour and a Shield (enchanted shield if you will, but not needed), he can also aim for weaker etheral or forrest spirit units with magical attacks at his side.

Paymaster is to be survivable, nothing more, nothing less, Barded Steed, Heavy Armour and a Shield/enchanted Shield is what you want from him.

Now, for the remaining two slots, I have pondered on what to take and I've decided upon wizards, now, finding useful lores was difficult at first, however, I finally decided. The level four will see the use of two powerstones and a Staff of Sorcery allong with the Lore of Metal, this brings him to around 310 points though, as such, the staff may well get cut to preserve points. His lore will be primarilly the Lore of Metal, partially because I love its potential, although against a few armies it may proove slightly less useful.

The level two will be given the Lore of Beasts allong with a powerstone anda dispell-scroll. The Lore of Beasts will primarily be taken to get Bears Anger, for there are uses for the spells which some people may well overlook in a Dogs of War army.

The army I am considering would see the centre line anchored by three blocks, two of which would be pikemen, around 25 in size. The third would come from specials so more on that later. Now, for the remaining Core choice, I would probably consider a unit of Knights allong with a unit of Fast Cavalry armed with either Spears or Bows (I have yet to decide, what're peoples opinnions?). Two units of ten Crossbows (or perhaps a unit of Besiegers or similar) would then be added to fill up the shooty base of the army.

Now, for the remaining choices, I would aim at fielding a unit of 20 or 25 of the Cursed Company, although slightly overpriced, we are still looking at one mean unit, and better yet, this is where Lore of Beasts turns very, very evil. Richter Kreugar, is unit strength 1 by virtue of being a foot character. "Join us In Damnation" just got a LOT better ;) This unit would serve to anchor and guard one flank of the pikemen core.

To guard the other flank, I would look at hirering a unit if Leadbelchers and a Maneater or two, perhaps going in the same unit to free up a last special slot for Mengil Manhide and the Manflayers, which, albeit expensive, still look like a bloody fun unit. I will add up points for an army loosely based on this a bit later, but now, I'm off for christmas foodstuffs.

Jericho
25-12-2008, 19:23
If you like to see grown men cry, then Manflayers can definitely do the job. Light/medium infantry, most monsters, and fast cav are absolutely boned against their poisoned repeater crossbows.

I bet they would be handy against Demons as well. If you can muster some magic defense, then they might be able to outgun Flamers of Tzeentch and/or pincushion some Greater Daemons. Flamers will never be able to hit them back, and their stand and shoot reaction will be deadly against many of the more mobile Daemon units :D

Anyway I like your thoughts Neknoh. I've never given the Lore of Beasts much thought, but since the RoR unit leaders count as US1 characters then they are all viable targets for a big combat buff. I still want to try it with Beorg at some point, no way I'm ever gonna get my hands on the models though. I still really like Lore of Light though. Easy to cast, and very nice perks against undead and demons.

Condottiere
25-12-2008, 20:18
The Manflayers are excellent to surprise unwary opponents, but kinda expensive.

For crossbows, I think you have to decide between generic (basically you hope to get lucky, but it doesn't matter), Besiegers (against hard hitting missile troops), Marksmen (when facing outranged missile troops) and Dwarves (when expecting guests).

Neckutter
25-12-2008, 21:00
are dogs of war even tournament legal anymore?

im just wondering, because i might want to start one in the future.

Condottiere
25-12-2008, 21:56
It depends. Consult the tournament organizer beforehand. You might want be careful before investing, since now it's official that the list won't be supported, chances to use DoW may decline over the next two years, with the 8th Edition ringing our death knell.

Still, we can always hope.

Jericho
26-12-2008, 00:25
The only "official support" they've had the last 4 years is limited availability through direct services. 8th edition (whenever we see it) won't be a radical shift from 7th so the Chronicles books will continue to be more or less usable.

I guess you shouldn't ever wait to grab DoW minis if you're interested though. Some times they take them off the order list by the time you decide to pick them up...

Anyway there is no consensus among tournament organizers, you have to ask ahead of time if it'll be okay. I imagine most would allow it, but not all will.

inq.serge
28-12-2008, 15:16
Hi.

I was thinking of an army like this:


DoW
Hireling wizard lord, lvl4: 210

Paymaster, Brace of pistols, Heavy armour: 73
Wizard, lvl2: 95
Wizard, lvl2: 95

Pikemen, 24x: 240
Pikemen, 21x: 210
Light cavalry: 5x, Spear, shield: 70
Duellists, 8x, pistols, champ: 82
Duellists, 8x, pistols: 72
Duellists, 8x, pistols: 72

Ogres, FC, 5, GW, LA: 250
dwarfs, la, gw, 10x: 100
Marauders: 12x, shield: 96
Marauders. 18x, GW: 162

Cannon: 85
Cannon: 85

_____1997

Wizard lord, lvl4: 210

Wizard, lvl2: 95

Pikemen, 21x: 210
Pikemen, 20x: 200
Pikemen, 20x: 200

Cannon: 85
__2997
____________

Would it be good?

Are the dark emissaries as "tourney legal" as the rest of the army? If so, what should I trade for one (I've read in a FaQ that you may only have 1), other than the obvious wizard and cannon?

A cannon and a wizard is good, but the Fog of Death spell is a lifesaver against Hellblasters and such gunliness. But then again, half of your own units are hit.

(Following units are a must: Karl Berthrand* the Paymasters, Ophelia Rose the Duellist champ, Konrad Gabriel the Cannon crewman, Giacomo Emilio the Duellist and Isabella Barozzo the Pyromancer, since I'm making a Witchhunter (fantsy-inq) warband consisting of them, )

*I would appreciate a better name that still is an obvious rip-off of Karl-Bertil Jonsson.

Jericho
29-12-2008, 00:43
I would strongly consider some magic items for your characters. Power Stones are a pretty good way to get some additional spells out of your mages, and I like to take 1 dispel scroll every game. Enchanted Shield is also a fantastic option for the Paymaster, to give him a very solid armor save in combat. You can't afford to let him die, and he will if you don't improve his save.

Re: your special slots, I think you could improve them slightly by changing up the Marauders and ditching the Dwarfs. The Dwarfs don't seem to have much of a role in the army, and the Marauders perform really well at 7x3 formation with flails/great weapons and full command. They dish out a ton of attacks, and their 20mm base size means you can get all 7 in combat against virtually every foe. I'm not sure if you're using the regular or the Ogre Kingdoms rules for the Ogres, but the OK ones are a bit better due to the bull charge.

Overall I'd consider dropping the Dwarfs and/or one unit of Duellists to fully equip your characters and regiments. No command and no items on your characters is a really strange way to play. DOW rely on static CR as well, since they aren't the most killy army out there, so banner and musician is needed in every block of troops.

inq.serge
30-12-2008, 16:44
So...

What do you guys suggest?

Call to Arms: (AKA I have following models (That I'm certain I can use in a DoW force)

Bretonnian questing knights musician (Lutenist) and standard.
Some kind of Bretonnian knight with a lance.
2x plastic 5ed bretonnian knights
5x hybrid 5ed wood elf glade riders with shield/spear
14x bearmen from Ursulo, Musician (Barbarian Horn-player???) and standard, but no Beorg nor "real" shields (Can be converted) (25mm base)
18x '93 metal marauders, 2 musicians (Drummers) and 1 standard. Converted to have GWs. (25mm base)
16x Dwarfs with full command and GWs
3x metal corsairs
3x witch elves
a dozen of skellies, maybe around 15½, and 4 nightmares, and a 5 ed chariot that needs 2 nightmares.
1 Greenstuff Marauder standard.
2 Greenstuff marauder champs (1 W/ GW, 1 w/ Shield)
Enough greenstuff and scratch to make a cannon with crew, 4+ characters on foot and some more stuff.
5x Original '85 Golgfags Ogres, but with the standard "Demolished" and the weapons ripped off. The musician (Drummer) is the only untouched. (They where demolished when I bought them). http://www.sodemons.com/rhogres/rhgolgfags2.htm (I have all models shown except the wolverine-haired one)

What should I do? What should I use them as? Maneaters seem nice (And, yes, AFAIK, they are "special".), and three is enough to get the bull charge off. But they can neither have standards nor musicians, which is sad, since I like music. (But then again, I think I have enough drummers.)

I'd prefer 1 astromancer wiz-lord with 0-4 powerstones (I hate dispel scrolls, and when I take magic, I go head on offensive! I hate defensive magic play, it doesn't feel good for me.), 1 Bright wizard hero mercenary with 0-2 powerstones, and 1 Dark emissary (How legal are they )?

In 3k, I want an metal wiz-lord and 1 hero, either beasts (druid) or Shadows (Insane and awesome shadowmancer),

I like pikes, but I think I'd prefer pistol-duellists that can run around and outmanoeuvre and hit-n-run. (But then it seems to be too 40k).

Any suggestions for a good army?

And yeah, I must have a duellist champ and a duellist musician for fluffs sake.

jhon
31-12-2008, 07:48
turth sayer or dark emmriay as one of the hero choice , those boys work like a charm .

for lord choice l take a lv4 wizard lord with 4 roll toilet paper .

a pay master with the best protection i can lay my hands on which is a barb warhorse heavy armour , entchanted shield and the tailsmen of protection , which will give you a 1+ armour save and a 6+ wardsave !!!!!

and the last hero choice i will either take the dragon lord or a lv2 wizard with 2 roll of toilet paper .

my advantage is that i got tons of dispel dice , power dice and four roll of toilet paper to waste in the magic phase .

inq.serge
31-12-2008, 09:56
Would the same go if I took stones instead of the scrolls? I prefer offensive, because then, the opponent is bent after MY will.

And what kind of unit should I put the Paymaster in?

And duellists don't seem to like to take d6 st3 hits on a 4+.

jhon
31-12-2008, 14:31
the reason of taking that many toilet paper and dice is because i wana my opp to think their is very smell chance he can have cast a spell unless he goes off with a total power or in a very high number casting roll, in either case he needs to spend lot of dice in each casting which he will have a very high chance to miscast as well ...

try put the paymen in a pistol slayer dwarf unit [ i often do ] or a ror pikemen unit or, something that is not likely see combat and is hard as a warith lord when it seens one . note: their must be something you do worng if the paymen seens combat .

if you are taking muti small pistol men like my dogs than turth sayer is your hero , his auto rally , 5+ ward save and life giver spell should aid your pistol men greatly . not to mention his pole arm is magical also !!!! with 4+ ward save , 3 wound only cost 2xx pts and a rare choice , he is the best hero a dog player can get ...!!

inq.serge
31-12-2008, 14:56
But isn't the Dark one better, one more level and all? They can cause d6 st3 hits on all enemy units + half your own. (Crewmunching FTW)

However, is a Cannon crew or heavy cavalry or a maneater a good bodyguard?

Jericho
31-12-2008, 21:40
Paymaster can't join the Slayer Pirates, since he's not Unbreakable. No DOW characters can.

jhon
31-12-2008, 23:45
Paymaster can't join the Slayer Pirates, since he's not Unbreakable. No DOW characters can.

are they unbreakable ? sorry , my bad :D .

inq.serge
01-01-2009, 12:08
Ok.

---
Wizard: 4 scrolls, lvl4: 310pts

Wizard: 2 scrolls, lvl2, 145pts

Paymaster: Brace of pistols, heavy armour, enchanted shield, talisman of protection, barded horsie: 112pts

Dark Emissary: 265pts

_____

Heavy cavalry: barding, full command, 5x: 150pts

Light cavalry: Spear, shield, full command, 5x: 115pts

???
_______

?????

________

Cannon: 85
_______
818pts over.
-----

What should I take?
21 norsemens with GW and full com?
16 dwarves wih GW and full com? (They seem to be inferior to marauders, with their 15 st 5 ws4 hits on charge).
5 maneaters in 1-3 different units? (Awesome, but 450 pts is a lot for 1 unit of 5. However, maneaters are mighty. (not on paper, but in game, according to stuff I've heard. ). Converting them might be a pain in the ass. I don't know what to give? Gw for all? 3-5 st7 impact hits is nothing to sneeze at. Id' like the brace of handguns (can they have both? But then again, 480 pts isn't cheap for 5 of them. Maybe 3 maneaters? (270-288 pts?) (They can't have command groups). One bad thing is that I then need to buy the codex. I don't have surplus amounts of cash.)

Is 3x12 fc pistol duellists a good thing to take? 138pts a unit. They (one unit) can (and usually will) take out a unit of 6 flamers if atleast 5 get into cc. (and usually, 4-6 will die due to stand and shoot, which means 8-6 will usually come into cc.)

The fog of death will fix the most of problems, but, just like alcohol, bring other problems, like my cannon crew, fast cav, characters and duellists will die like flies if hit. And where should I hide my characters?

I was thinking of maneaters (if I take some) for paymaster Karl Bertrand, and the spellcasters with duellists.

Can they join duellists? Will they still be skirmishers? (which seems to be perfect for spellcasters. )

BTW; I'm sculpting most of my Dow characters + cannon w/ crew. Pics will be up on my plog (See my sig) later today. Please take a look and comment.

Edit; Any tactics for the Dark Emissary?

And the hero will be Lore of fire, while the lord might change between games. Is it allowed to, at the start of every game, in a tournament, chose which lore you'll use? Which lore should I use on what enemy?

Red_Lep
01-01-2009, 17:44
Just wondering, in which units do y'all normally put your characters? Also, whats a good set-up for your characters?

jhon
02-01-2009, 00:20
are dogs of war even tournament legal anymore?

im just wondering, because i might want to start one in the future.

dogs are illegal in 99% of GW's offical tourny . this is due dog army are pts giver but, with all those deamon and vimpire floating around :rolleyes: ....

Jericho
02-01-2009, 02:45
Where do my characters go? Well if I take El Cheapo Lord (heavy armor, shield, barded horse, Sword of Might, Talisman) then he leads Voland's Venators. They are pretty deceptive since you get 4 WS6 S5 attacks, 3 WS5 S6 attacks, and 4 WS4 S6 attacks, plus 6 horsies. They hit harder than people expect, and you can use Voland to accept challenges that your General doesn't want. Losing Voland is no big deal, meanwhile your Lord can much up units for CR.

Generally speaking I stick characters in with Pikes. They are pretty static and generally one of the safer places to put them. Paymaster and a Level 2 mage usually join Ricco's Republican Guard, and the other mages go wherever I need them. Lately I've been using a Level 2 wizard on barded horse (Lucrezzia Belladonna figure) and having her hop around between units to use her spells to their maximum effectiveness. She has joined a solo Maneater for a few turns, simply because he was the only thing on that flank that she could join (can't have mounted models join Skirmishers).

jhon
03-01-2009, 01:35
30 pike of any kind +1 turth sayer+1 lv4 fire wizard lord+1 lv2 metal wizard = one hell of shooting unit ...

Cypher, the Emperor
03-01-2009, 02:15
are dogs of war even tournament legal anymore?

im just wondering, because i might want to start one in the future.

They are accepted by all of the major non-GW tournaments in the US. And in a pinch you can always play it as an empire counts-as army since it uses 100% GW miniatures.

Jericho
04-01-2009, 10:22
30 pike of any kind +1 turth sayer+1 lv4 fire wizard lord+1 lv2 metal wizard = one hell of shooting unit ...
Just pray that unit never has to take a panic test :p

It's definitely a solid magic bunker though. I've said it a lot, but I really love the Lore of Light. Metal and Fire are very good though, it's always hard to choose between the lot of them.

Anyway, yes it's very reasonable to play DoW as Empire if you have any concerns about tournament organizers or whatever. There's very little difference between the two, really. A captain leading Inner Circle is basically the same as Voland's Venators, a wall of spears with Griffon Banner is close to a wall of pikes, it's all good. You would have to paint the Griffon Banner to look like the Mona Lisa though, since IIRC it was a very similar painting that inspired the last defenders of Miragliano to hold out against the Skaven for so long.

I really need to read my 5th edition DoW fluff again, it's very good!

Orge_ladd
05-01-2009, 08:46
hey i gonna be using a dogs of war army in a tournement soon.. ( i have asked and yes its ok. yay)

its going to be 2000pts in size so fairly decent, however i not sure what i should take.

so far i have no idea what to do, i thinking 2 units of pikemen on the flanks of pirrazzos lost legion, then maybe vesparos vendetta's and maybe voland's venators and some light cavalry ( maybe the hobgoblins) does anyone have any advice as i gonna be honest, i doubt i will win the tournement but i wana go have fun and be a bit competitve.

Makarion
05-01-2009, 10:09
Well, given that it's a tournament, you should expect to see plenty of the new armies. Most of these have fear-causing units, and you'll have to find a way to battle this. I suggest a magic-heavy list build around a Wizard Lord with Lore of Light, supported by the Dark Emissary (or his lighter cousin) and a level 2 wizard. Consider the Staff of Sorcery, since you'll have a lot of dispel dice, but don't forget to bring at least 1 scroll.

Jericho
05-01-2009, 13:44
The Hobgoblins look pretty good, I haven't ever used them though.

Vespero's Vendetta is kinda overpriced, I mean Fear is handy and all but it's like 125 pts for 5 of them. Not cool. Duellists with pistols and no command are pretty good, should be a few in every army (just like Dryads in Wood Elves). Voland's Venators are good for S4/6 cavalry as core. The included hero model is nice as well, gives the unit some added punch.

I'm not convinced that Pirazzo's Lost Legion is worth taking, compared to taking generic pikes and generic crossbows. You have to stay still to be effective with your pikes, which means you're sacrificing their main advantage (shooting) to move into proper positions. Ricco's and if you're worried about Fear then Leopard Company are the two pike regiments worth taking.

ishoog
05-01-2009, 18:47
The Hobgoblins look pretty good, I haven't ever used them though.



The hobgoblins are a reasonably powerful unit, they're perfect for a combined charge with another unit to guarantee an opponent gets run down and caught.

I've also had some success using them on their own against some units with medium armour or chariots.

That said, they really aren't very good at sticking it out in a fight and are not fantastic when used as a bait unit because of their cost. Best to just use a basic DOW light cav unit in that case.

RossS
05-01-2009, 19:41
Well, given that it's a tournament, you should expect to see plenty of the new armies. Most of these have fear-causing units, and you'll have to find a way to battle this. I suggest a magic-heavy list build around a Wizard Lord with Lore of Light, supported by the Dark Emissary (or his lighter cousin) and a level 2 wizard. Consider the Staff of Sorcery, since you'll have a lot of dispel dice, but don't forget to bring at least 1 scroll.

This is what I have taken to doing in the past couple of weeks. Level 4 (staff of sorcery, two power stones), Dark Emissary and a Level 2 with two Dispel Scrolls...that sort of magical firepower can shock some of my opponents. I've halted whole VC, Dark Elf and Deamonic magic phases with this setup.

I have never used Vespero's. Sure, Vespero is a capable fighter, but he is easy to kill, and doesn't exactly hit too hard. A unit of pistol-armed duellist would probably be a better investment in all situations. Best flankers in the game, for their cost, in my opinion. Give them a champion and a musician and you can wreak some absolute havoc.

I am actually a fan of Pirazzo's. In my opinion, Pikes should not really be moving all that much. They are big, clumsy units who are tasked with holding a position. The move or fire rules do no really bother me. If deployed in sufficient width (6 or more wide), a stand and shoot from them can be deadly. It's a pity you have to take Pirazzo, though. He is as useless as the pope on Mardi Gras.

Jericho
05-01-2009, 21:31
The Hobgoblins definitely aren't your basic fast cav, that's for sure. Their higher points cost and banner make them poor bait/throwaway models.

They do however have a 4+ save and M9, which is pretty awesome for fast cav. The spears, and the Khan's solid statline make them pretty solid medium cav, with the added bonus of fast cav mobility.

The main reason I don't like the Lost Legion? Incredibly awkward rules. They can never change formation, ever. They also can't do a 90 degree turn on the spot either, since it would change their frontage. Annoying.

jhon
06-01-2009, 02:59
im not saying the wolf rider is not worth it . but they are kind of high pts for being fernzy unit's bait [ being fast cav and have M9 it work out pretty good . during last game i even able to give a few bow shot to the blood knights before i lure them back to their own table edge, but i know this happen very rare . hehe.. ] or crew hunting , in the other hand they leck of the punching power to hunt down mid armour unit or counter flank charger ... the M9 is good but unit just seems lacking soild pupose .

Bloodknight
06-01-2009, 07:03
I think their main problem as a bait unit is the Khan's low LD of 7. I'd rather have a 70 point unit of fast cav (5+musician) run accidentally off the board after a feigned flight than a 190+ unit... They are good warmachine hunters (DoW don't have a lot of good ones, only the pegasus captain comes to mind since the Birdmen are so awful) and flankers, though.

Jericho
07-01-2009, 06:59
Good point about warmachine hunting. I have always wanted a Pegasus captain, but never tried it. Brace of pistols, HA, shield and lance seemed like a very cheap but useful flyer.

Bloodknight
07-01-2009, 09:02
I always play one in exactly that configuration. My standard hero setup is a level 4 wizard, level 2 wizard (unless I take the Truthseer whom I find better than the Dark Emissary because his spell list is IMO more useful for a DoW army, the dispel bonus is nice and he can actually hold his own vs a champion in a challenge. I don't do that very often because people tend to go WTF if you take two Lord level wizards in 2K), mounted paymaster and pegasus captain.
I often pondered leaving the BOP on the pegaman at home to save the points, but it's just too useful. There's often a situation in which you cannot charge or don't want to charge, and then he can still do damage.

jhon
10-01-2009, 00:49
is turthsayer's weapon magical ?

Bloodknight
10-01-2009, 00:54
Yes. The "Staff of Light" is a magic item - basically a Staff of Sorcery that doubles as a halberd.

Reasons why I like the Truthsayer better than the Dark Emissary:

1. IMHO a more useful spell list - with manageable casting values - for a DoW army than the damage dealing Emissary with his high casting values and some dubious spells.

2. Better bonus. +1 to Dispel works for all dispel dice, while the DEs +1 to cast only works for him.

3. The TS is a better unit leader thanks to LD9.

4. The TS has a better ward save than the DE.

5. The TS can hold his own in a challenge vs a unit champion or a weedy character like a Goblin thanks to his more fighty statline; he's got better WS, S, T, A and LD than the DE.

6. He comes with a magic weapon, has more than one attack, which is rare for a wizard, and strikes at S5.

Jericho
10-01-2009, 07:33
I think I have to agree. Coils of the Serpent is a pretty funky #6 spell. Many of the targets worth attacking will only kill themselves on the roll of a 6, and even against a weedy spellcaster there's a 50% chance that your hard to cast spell does nothing.

The Truthsayer is just plain handy with his support spells, sure he's a bit less likely to cast but the spells are better and all his other stats/abilities are very good for a mage. It's the only way to get Ld9 general and a very strong magic phase in a DoW army at 2k.

Arguleon-veq
10-01-2009, 12:41
I agree that the Truthsayer is a far better option. Most of the Emisserys spells are pretty bad, the first is the only good one he has IMO. The Truthsayer has many that are very hand, the gift of life one especially with Ogres and Cav in your army, he can make units unbreakable, he can give units 5+ Wards. All very handy and at low casting values.

Also with regards to that, in the release of the rules to allow us to use these characters after the Albion Campaign, there was nothing about them not being able to be our general.

I dont really have the time to read this whole thread now but I think most regiments of Reknown are pretty bad.

Volands Venators would be ok, but there is still the issue that despite S4 and a Captain, they still wont beat +5 Combat Res units in a fight to the front. Heavy Cav in DoW armies should be used like heavily armoured fast cav IMO. Cheap. Expendable rank breakers. Especially with the amount of Stubborn units we can include.

The Slayer Pirates are a decent choice so long as you arent facing too many guns and the enemy is advancing on you.

The Wolf Boys are ok, I would much prefer them not having a banner though.

The Lost Legion are the only Pike unit that is even remotely worth it from the regiments of reknown units and even then you are just better off with a unit of Pikes and a unit of Crossbows.

Asarnil is of course very handy. The Bearmen are a decent unit but very expensive. The Manflayers are the same, good unit, lot of points.

Every other Regiment of Reknown should be left at home IMO.

I dont see the issue with people not liking to see Ogre Kingdom choices in DoW armies. Ogres were a big part of DoW long before the Ogre Kingdom book come along, now we just have better Ogres. Sure if you are taking 4 full units of Ogres that is OTT but 8 or so Ogres isn't bad at all. It still leaves about 1500 points for none Ogre units.

I do think a major key for the army though is to anchor the flanks of big combats with Stubborn units, re-rolling thanks to the paymaster, whilst your pikes fight things out in the centre with little fear of being flanked and having your cav dart down the flanks to do some flanking or war machine hunting of their own. You need a balanced force with DoW IMO, some shooting to soften up those units your pikes just cant beat, some cav for the flanking, some Stubborn units [Maneaters, Bodyguard] to hold the line and then some hard hitters to deal with the toughest enemy units [Ogres, Norse, Bearmen].

I have a DoW BatRep Blog going on in the BatRep board for any who are interested. Played against - Dwarfs, Vamps, High Elves, Skaven, Tomb Kings so far [this edition].

ishoog
26-01-2009, 13:25
I just played a 1500 hall of heros at my local bunker this past weekend and placed a respectable 4th out of 10 with my army.

Overall I did pretty well, I played against 2 lizardmen armies using the new rules and 1 bretonian army.

I massacred the first lizardmen player, got massacred by the second mostly due to an impressive string of bad rolls at a critical moment and had a minor victory against the bretonians due to a very lucky irresistible force beast cowers.

I'm looking for advice on growing my army up to 2000 points for the next tourney in a couple of months time. I have Azarnil, the manflayers, 3 iron guts, lots of pikes, the cursed company, the bear men, 10 duelists with pistols and a Rhinox rider that I can add.

Also, has anyone tried taking Gnoblar manbiters?

Here's what I took

Lvl 2 wizard with a dispel scroll

Lvl 2 wizard with 2 dispel scrolls

Paymaster, ha, barded warhorse, shield, morningstar

10 crossbows

20 Ricco's Republican guard

8 Barded Heavy Cav + cmd

18 Paymaster's bodyguard with command

3 Maneaters, heavy armour, 2 with brace of handguns and 1 with great weapon

Cannon

jhon
03-02-2009, 05:37
I just played a 1500 hall of heros at my local bunker this past weekend and placed a respectable 4th out of 10 with my army.

Overall I did pretty well, I played against 2 lizardmen armies using the new rules and 1 bretonian army.

I massacred the first lizardmen player, got massacred by the second mostly due to an impressive string of bad rolls at a critical moment and had a minor victory against the bretonians due to a very lucky irresistible force beast cowers.

I'm looking for advice on growing my army up to 2000 points for the next tourney in a couple of months time. I have Azarnil, the manflayers, 3 iron guts, lots of pikes, the cursed company, the bear men, 10 duelists with pistols and a Rhinox rider that I can add.

Also, has anyone tried taking Gnoblar manbiters?

Here's what I took

Lvl 2 wizard with a dispel scroll

Lvl 2 wizard with 2 dispel scrolls

Paymaster, ha, barded warhorse, shield, morningstar

10 crossbows

20 Ricco's Republican guard

8 Barded Heavy Cav + cmd

18 Paymaster's bodyguard with command

3 Maneaters, heavy armour, 2 with brace of handguns and 1 with great weapon

Cannon

i say add in 2 unit of eight men strong pistol dualist , a 10 men strong manflayer [ very expensive but amazing pts effective] ,a truth sayer [ read Bloodknight's thread]. that sould be about 800 pts .

Jericho
03-02-2009, 06:32
I definitely support the Manflayers. There are some people who will claim they lose their poisoned attacks due to the semantics and renaming of poisons in the new army book, but that's stupid. Dipping crossbows in poison that gives you double CR in challenges makes exactly zero sense. They're bloody solid, just vulnerable to magic missiles of course.

ishoog
03-02-2009, 14:35
i say add in 2 unit of eight men strong pistol dualist , a 10 men strong manflayer [ very expensive but amazing pts effective] ,a truth sayer [ read Bloodknight's thread]. that sould be about 800 pts .

I've used manflayers a few times and haven't had much success, they tend to get killed very quickly if I scout with them and have ended up in getting wiped out after wiping out a unit and being left open to counter charges. That said it's entirely possible that I'm misusing them.

Unfortunately, Albion rules aren't allowed at my local tournament since they aren't published online or anywhere else that's readily available for opponents. If the rules are actually online somewhere, I'd really appreciate a link.

Has anyone tried fielding the cursed company at 2000 points? I'd love to hear how that worked as I inherited a box of skellies.

Arguleon-veq
03-02-2009, 14:55
I have 2 battles using them in the BatRep board. They did great in both games.

First game was against Chaos Warriors. They charged a large block of Undivided Warriors with Shields and Full Command. I also charged in my Paymaster for the extra combat res. Thanks to their nice 4+ save, I didnt lose many skellies, I did no damage in return but my Paymaster swung the combat thanks to being a Battle Standard, winning me the combat by 1. Autobreaking an almost 300 point unit thanks to outnumbering with Fear. My Mounted Paymaster running the enemy down.

They then went on to fight a very depleted Khorne unit, Kruger killing blowed a Khorne Exalted champ.

Second game was against Orcs and Gobs.

They got involved in a huge combat that involved Grimgor, Night Gobs, Wolf Chariot, Marauders and the Cursed Company. A Combat I would have been crushed in but for Kruger challenging Grimgor, he survived 3 rounds of combat thanks to that 4+ Ward, got a killing blow off but Grimgors Ward saved it, Kruger did take a wound off Grimgor the regular way though. Thanks to Kruger absorbing all that, my Skellies werent dying in droves which seen off the chariot, auto breaking it thanks to fear [Grimgor passed is LD test as he is ITP]. It also ensured my Company stayed above half strength and so didnt give up points to the enemy.

So they held Grimgor up, lost no points, killed a Chariot and stopped Grimgor rampaging through my army.

They are a very steep investment at 400 points for 20. Although when you consider that to get a similar unit in a Vamps army [ignoring points restrictions on the character] it would come to this anyway;

19 Skellies; FC
Wight King; BSB, Crown, Blood Drinker, Sword of Might.
= 362 Points.

So your not paying that many more points and you have that unit in an army that doesnt have acess to fear causers with a high unit strength. They are a reliable unit as they will always do what you want. Great for taking down enemy units packing a powerful character, challenging with Kruger and reducing enemy kills and winning on static res to autobreak them.

Jericho
03-02-2009, 21:35
I've used manflayers a few times and haven't had much success, they tend to get killed very quickly if I scout with them and have ended up in getting wiped out after wiping out a unit and being left open to counter charges. That said it's entirely possible that I'm misusing them.

How exactly are you using them? What do you target with them, and what has taken them down so far?

The few games where I've lost them, it's usually been to annoying things. Against Khemri, they got charged in the magic phase of turn 1, failed their fear test and fled off the board. Rolled 10 for Ld and 12 for their flee distance, not cool :p Against Dark Elves, they got magic missiled to death. Didn't have enough magic defense to stop it. Against Empire they dodged Mortars for a while, and ended up charging a unit of Greatswords w/ BSB. In turn 6 the bsb rolled triple 6's for armor saves, after Menghil rolled triple sixes to hit (wounding him 3 times of course with poison). If the BSB had died, I would've actually won combat and had a chance of swinging that draw into a fairly major win. Against another Empire opponent, he had 2 mortars and 2 Hellblasters, back when they didn't need to roll to hit. That means very dead Manflayers the instant I poked my head out to try and shoot something. I'm trying to think of any other times I've lost a significant amount of them... it hasn't happened very often!

Against Wood Elves they destroyed everything from Waywatchers to Wardancers + Lord, literally over 1000+ points in a 2k game. Against Brets they nearly wiped out the 10 Yeomen in 1 round of shooting, killed the Pegasus Lord, killed a ton of random dudes from other units and many Grail Pilgrims. Against WoC they have cleaned up on numerous occasions. The list goes on.

If you are going to take them, then you need to take magic defense to save them from magic missiles and whatnot. Paymaster, Level 4, 2 Level 2's is pretty solid, assuming you have 2 scrolls and the Staff of Sorcery you should do okay.

Be sure to Scout after things that are worthy targets, and things that won't survive a round or two of shooting + a stand and shoot reaction. Fast and lightly armored stuff are ideal targets, since they can kill fast cav, flying units etc. before they get a chance to do anything, and these units can be a huge headache most of the time. Solo characters, war machines, lightly armored elite infantry (Slayers, Black Guard, Witch Elves, Swordmasters etc.) are also great targets.

Definitely beware of anything that auto-hits! Grapeshot from cannons, breath weapons, Organ guns... etc.

jhon
05-02-2009, 08:16
Unfortunately, Albion rules aren't allowed at my local tournament since they aren't published online or anywhere else that's readily available for opponents. If the rules are actually online somewhere, I'd really appreciate a link.

Has anyone tried fielding the cursed company at 2000 points? I'd love to hear how that worked as I inherited a box of skellies.

i think you can still find the albion rule some where in the tactic fourm

forget the cursed company they rarely make to combat , either ppl ingore them all together or they got shot to last men before they make it to combat . they are too high pts cost and the armour is too low ..

ishoog
10-02-2009, 13:13
I think the albion rules are good and dead as far as tournaments go.

Yeah the cursed company are just too expensive for a 2000 point game, maybe I can squeeze them in at 3k.

What do people's typical lists look like beside Arguleon-veq? I'd love to see how other players build out their lists.

Jericho
13-03-2009, 20:27
Hey guys, I am attending a tournament in Prince George this month (rather last minute decision to go!) and I'm revamping my Dogs a bit for the event. Finishing up my Venators, painting a new Paymaster (Shiekh Yadosh!), a Truthsayer, and a new L2 mage (Empire Wizard, painted in generic Jedi robe colors so he can use any lore :D).

Here's the list I was thinking of taking:

Truthsayer (General) 265 pts
L4 Wizard w/ Staff of Sorcery, Talisman of Protection 275 pts
L2 Wizard w/ 2x Dispel Scroll 145 pts
Paymaster w/ Heavy armor, Enchanted Shield 69 pts

18x Pikemen w/ Heavy armor, Full command 228 pts
14x Ricco's Republican Guard 228 pts
10x Crossbowmen 80 pts
5x Heavy Cavalry w/ Barding, Banner & Musician 135 pts
8x Duelists w/ Pistols 72 pts

8x Mengil's Manflayers 325 pts
1x OK Maneater w/ Heavy armor & brace of handguns 90 pts

Cannon 85 pts

TOTAL = 1997 pts
11 PD, 7 DD (+2 to dispel attempts), 2 Scrolls, 71 models

I'm pretty happy with how that looks. I might drop one of the scrolls for more Pikes, the magic defense is already fairly well stacked and I want decent comp scores :D Any advice for changes would be appreciated, keep in mind that I need to submit the army list tonight to the tournament organizers! Cheers :)

I'll quickly comment on how this army differs from my usual list. I have never taken the Truthsayer before, technically I still don't have the model (but I will tonight!). I often take a L4, L2, L2 and Paymaster. Other army lists have a Captain, Paymaster, L4 and the Goblin-Hewer. Most of the units stay the same, but with some of the model counts slightly changed. This is the first time I'm running with less than 10 Manflayers. Just didn't have the points to use my usual 10 :( I used to have more Republican Guard as well, until a friend took some home by mistake (he was using Dogs of War in his army and grabbed some of my models by mistake) and left his case on the bus! So the unit is stuck smaller than I'd like, unless I get off my butt and spend some money.

Almost forgot! I always take the Hot Pot if I have the second rare slot free. Goblin-Hewer and Truthsayer obviously bump the lovely little thing.

I might add some Leopard Company sooner or later, I bought 45 on eBay a year ago or so. Also bought the Birdmen of Catrazza who will make good fast cav w/ bows I think. Much more sensible than using the 150 pt crap rules they have.

Time of Madness
13-03-2009, 20:39
First off you should all come join up over at dogs online.

http://www.dogsofwaronline.com/forum/index.php

Second off the list is alright although I think your pike units are lacking. The optimal size for pikes is 20-25. You are better off with basic pikemen and not RoR as they cost less and tend to be more effective.

Here's my current city state list. Good in all phases of the game.

CHARACTERS

Merc Captain (general)
- Barded Steed
- Heavy armour/shield
- Sword of Might
= 90pts

Wizard Lord
- Level 4
- Barded Steed
- Dispel Scroll
- Dispel Scroll
= 281pts

Hireling Wizards
- Level 2
- 2 Dispel Scrolls
= 145pts

Paymaster
- Heavy Armour
- Enchanted Shield
= 69pts

CORE

23 Pikes
*general here*
- Full Command
- Heavy Armour
= 283pts

23 Pikes
*Wizard lord here*
- Full Command
- Heavy Armour
= 283pts

10 Crossbowmen
= 80pts

10 Crossbowmen
= 80pts

5 heavy cav
- barding
= 105pts

5 heavy cav
- barding
= 105pts

8 Duellists
- Pistols
= 72pts

SPECIAL

18 Paymasters bodyguard
*paymaster here*
- Full command
- Warbanner
- Heavy Armour
= 235pts

RARE

Cannon
= 85pts

Cannon
= 85pts

TOTAL POINTS = 1992pts

Casting dice - 8
Dispel Dice - 5 +4 scrolls and staff

Time of Madness

Jericho
13-03-2009, 20:48
I was considering taking generic Pikes instead of the Republican Guard but since I don't have more than 15 models anymore, they would suck as WS3 crappy champion guys. It loses a point of SCR but the WS4 and hero stats could save them. Ricco is also a candidate for Bear's Anger, where the Wizards still aren't that scary even with the boosts. 2S6 attacks and T4 is decent, but compared to 4 S7 and T5? I'd rather keep the wizards out of the fight.

There's a very good chance I'll drop a scroll and take 2 more pikes for the generic unit. I have 20 fully painted anyway.

Anyway I do like your list quite a bit, it's a lot more generic than mine but it looks more solid because of it. I really enjoy the Manflayers too much. In many games they have been fan-freaking-tastic for me, and only two or three times they've died without causing massive headaches for the enemy. I've used them in pretty much every game I've played with the Dogs since the unit was released.

Anyway, Paymaster's Bodyguard is something else I want to find models for eventually. I might buy some more Republican Guard, and strip down my old ones, cut off their broken pikes and give them halberds. It could work, and it gives me an excuse to revamp the ugliest paintjobs in the army right now.

Kelderaith
14-03-2009, 01:21
Hi everyone, I've read the entire thread and I am really intrigued with Dogs of War. I plan on starting an Empire army this summer but I really do like the looks of certain RoR (that I just might include in my army as rare choice). I would like to know where can you find the rules for such units (was there ever a Dog of War army book? I am pretty new to fantasy and am aware of none). GW seems to have abandoned them for good, can't find anything on their site besides models in "miscellaneous" section...

I would really like if you guys could point me in a direction to find those rules if they are available on the web. I am not a white dwarf collector and it would be quite a pain to be pointed out that their list is printed in one, as it would be really difficult for me to find one by myself.

Thanks for taking to read and reply, and have some good games with such a characterful army!

lachlanwizard
14-03-2009, 07:18
you will find everything you need right here:

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/dogsofwar/gaming/armylist/default.htm

few notes:

duellists hold dow together
dwarfs are invaluable
cannons are very very important
pikemen are not very good, the alcatani fellowship are ok
ogres are very solid and fear is a huge boon in this army
you lack cheap rank and file

Genrazn
14-03-2009, 07:53
Really? Norse Mauraders seem darn good for there points WS 4 S5 GW or Flails. which makes them 8-10 points but still darn good stuff heh

Jericho
14-03-2009, 08:04
I do like the look of Marauders. And they fit the style/theme of the army WAY better than stinkin' stunties. I really don't like the idea of Dwarfs in DOW, unless they're the Slayer Pirates. Norse are relatively cheap and still lots of punch which the army struggles to find often. Sure you get a bucket of WS3 S3 attacks with Pikes... but what's that going to do against Chaos Warriors for example? Maybe 1 unsaved wound? They are much more effective as a psychological tool than anything else really.

Anyway I'm submitting the army list in the morning, does anyone know if multiple +1 to dispel items stack? Ie. Staff of sorcery and the Truthsayer's staff? I heard that someone read somewhere that they are not cumulative... which is not a very helpful statement when making a tournament army list :p

<edit> The Staff of Sorcery says +1 to attempts made by the bearer, the Staff of Light simply says "+1 to dispel attempts" with no other stipulations about who is doing the rolling. Personally I think it's valid, if not I've got 50 pts to play with! </edit>

Genrazn
14-03-2009, 08:25
One thing to keep in mind though with pikes +1 S vs cavalry that charged them. Its a bucketload of S4 hits heading there way :P Especially when they strike first Most the time heh.

Jericho
14-03-2009, 08:28
Meh most cav still trounce Pikes in my experience. T3 2+ save cav aren't so bad (except for bloody Bretonnians), but anything tougher or with 2A can break Pikes. Bloody Chaos Knights, where even 4 surviving to attack means like 6+ dead pikes (9+ with Khorne) and a lost combat *shakes fist*

Genrazn
14-03-2009, 08:34
Haha too true, but the one thing I like about DoW is the fact they can choose any magic lore.

Along with quite a variation in there units. Cheap Heavy Cavalry themselves.

lachlanwizard
14-03-2009, 10:56
marauders are a great addition as a sacrificial unit but they simply cant beat the dwarfs as a ranked unit

nasty_little_hobbit
14-03-2009, 12:00
I really like that list good luck In the tournament, you dont happen to have any pictures of your army=]
I would of added more pikes instead of the dispel scroll persoanlly but is your call.
How do lone maneaters fare, im tempted to buy one for my empire army as they are such nice looking models but not sure how one will do.Also, why not give him a great weapon?
Final question, where do your characters go?

Jericho
14-03-2009, 15:34
Some good questions :)

The solo Maneater has been very effective for me so far, in the few games I've run him like that. He has been used to protect my flanks, protect the ranged units (while providing some fire himself), and as a Wood Elf player I have used him like a Great Eagle for disruption, getting in the way, and redicrecting charges and such. As a monster you can run him up to a unit, wheel 45+ degrees on the spot and if they charge you you have a nice gorgeous flank exposed even if they win and overrun. Basically he's a nuisance for the enemy and he's done a good job of it so far.

As for the mages? The L2 might go with the crossbows, but I'm thinking that the Truthsayer and Paymaster should go with the unit of 20 pikes. More static CR the better. Assuming the enemy doesn't have much to threaten the Duelists, I have stuck characters in there before with decent results. They simply leave the unit before I get stuck into combat.

It will be a bit of an issue with 4 characters and only 2 really safe places to put them, but with the solid magic defense I'm not too concerned about them getting targeted by spels if I have to leave.

inq.serge
14-03-2009, 18:07
I was thinking.

What if there will come an apocalypse expansion for WFB. That would be awesome for DoW players!

Marco and Bella would be awesome to have, since the bigger army, the more hidden/Characters to affect.

But whom should I give potion of pavona to? Beorg, Ricco, Asarnil, Golgfag, Mengil or Richter? Maybe an ogre rhinox rider thunderlord?

And the kiss? Ricco or Beorg? Do Beorg even count as human?

Truthsayer seems to be awesome in bigger games.

And FW emp.fire dragon!

I hope there will be a warhammer Apocalypse.

Jericho
14-03-2009, 18:14
Trick question, the answer is Lorenzo Lupo ;) they already have Epic Battles or somethingerather. No datasheets but rules for deployment and each army can take on massive formation beyond the Core/Special/Rare slots. Like a unit of Helblasters as one slot :eek:

Beorg with bear's anger any d6 stat boosts would be crazy tho.

BTW Lucrezzia is the *****. She rocks.

lachlanwizard
14-03-2009, 23:04
I think out of all my armies, dogs of war would be the only ones i would powergame with. that said, does anyone have input as to duelist deathstars? i run 10 and a paymaster with brace in the unit for a solid amount of shots, but i was thinking of expanding.

Any thoughts?

Jericho
15-03-2009, 02:01
I dunno if I'd call that a death star unit. They are often a MSU nightmare like Dryads.

mr.kislev
15-03-2009, 02:35
where are the rules for DOW special characters. could someone link it?

and also what do man eaters count as in DOW armys special rar or 2 rares

lachlanwizard
15-03-2009, 06:50
I guess a msu nightmare is the best we can get then. We do it very well! I feel that any good dogs army starts off with a solid amount of duelists and then ogres.

Also, I can't help you with the special characters but I believe that Maneaters are special units mr. kislev

mr.kislev
15-03-2009, 06:57
thanks for that. but where does it say that?

Jericho
15-03-2009, 07:08
No pdf for special characters as far as I know. I'm still trying to get my hands on Chronicles 2003... supposedly a lot of people I know own a copy but they never get around to giving it to me :p

mr.kislev
15-03-2009, 09:00
whats in chronicles 2003?

lachlanwizard
15-03-2009, 09:38
Special characters are in chronicles, but it is hard to come by. In the ogre kingdoms army book, under 'dogs of war' section before the hero choices it outlines that ogre units are special choices in dogs.

mr.kislev
15-03-2009, 10:11
k thanks

(this is for the min 10 characters)

Jericho
16-03-2009, 02:40
So not too many people posted with their general army theme when it was asked before, so I'm gonna ask again :)

When you play Dogs of War, how do you build your army lists?

Magic-heavy? Gunline? Big blocks of Pikes? MSU with stuff like Duelists and Norse? All of the above? ;)

As you may have noticed from my post earlier, I tend to take a very well rounded army. A mix of magic, a decent shooting element with a mix of Crossbows, Cannons, Hot Pots, Goblin-Hewers, in whatever combination I feel like. These are designed to whittle down the enemy so that my 2 blocks of Pikes can take them on safely. A small unit of heavy cav and Manflayers usually concern themselves with the more threatening enemies that would trounce Pikers in combat.

mr.kislev
16-03-2009, 06:11
my army is pure fluff/theme not for 'chedder' look at my log to see what i mean. the theme being kislev. so my army is going to be alot of kislev allied to dogs of war with a few ROR. (regiments of renown)

Jericho
16-03-2009, 06:21
That's cool, I respect that. My army isn't really "designed" for anything for the most part, it's just a bunch of very cool minis that I've been collecting since my very first forays into Warhammer. I used to treat myself to a DoW regiment every once in a while after finishing something from my 2e/3e Ultramarines force. Eventually my Dogs of War began to outnumber my Ultramarines, and over the years my army has swelled to many thousand points.

I was playing 2k games with the Dogs years ago, and since then I've added lots. I'll try to rattle off everything that's painted from memory, I could be wrong on some details but that's not the point :p

Lucrezzia Belladonna
Lorenzo Lupo
A generic Captain/Mercenary General (Mordheim Freelance Knight)
Assorted paymasters (including a Bretonnian on foot, a slightly modified Luthor Huss, and a WIP Shiekh Yadosh that I bought fairly recently)
Numerous Hireling Wizards (including a classic Bretonnian Damsel, a new plastic Empire Wizard, and an old Warrior Priest)
Gotrek and Felix
Wilhelm and Johann
A WIP Truthsayer that I got the other day
Goblin-Hewer, with WIP crew
20 Alcatani Fellowship
15 Republican Guard
18 Marksmen of Miragliano (I have a few more and plan to have enough to make 2x10 generic crossbowmen)
10 Fighting Cocks
5 Venators
10 Manflayers
15 Slayer Pirates (and more unpainted)
2 Cannons
Halfling Hot Pot
8 Duelists

I think that's the painted stuff. Unpainted I have about 45 Leopard Company, another 30 or so Alcatani Fellowship, Mydas the Mean, 5 Birdmen of Catrazza, the awesome-sauce Mercenary General on horse (might get a Pegasus), a bunch of Marienburg models for making Duelists with Pistols, and I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

Jericho
16-03-2009, 06:23
For those interested, my Shiekh Yadosh WIP and the finished wizard. The Wiz was speed-painted in 2 hours 53 minutes, and the Paymaster has probably 2.5 hours in him so far. Another hour and he'll be cool. The peacock feathers I added to him will take time :p

mr.kislev
16-03-2009, 09:00
well that got off topic quick

lachlanwizard
16-03-2009, 11:05
I'll bite Jericho. It's up to us to keep this alive really.

My list is somewhat unconventional for a dogs of war list in that I wanted to make it as powerful as I possibly could and I ended up with something like this:

Wizard Lord with Lore of life on pegasus
Two Wizards with whatever lore helps best - possibly heavens and light
Paymaster with pistols and enchanted shield in Duellists

12 Duellists with pistols
2 Units of 5 light cav
1 Volands Venators
15 Dwarfs with Command and armour - Unsure of this unit
10 Crossbows

2 Units of 3 Ironguts
2 Maneaters with Braces

2 Cannons

It is yet untested, I'm still building it. The rough idea is to pull battle into the center of the field with my decent shooting and hold up elements with the Wizard lord marchblocking and keeping terrain pieces uncontested while ogres take hits and get healed if i roll Gift of Life.

mr.kislev
16-03-2009, 11:39
here is my list this is theme not chesse. the theme is just kislev.
duelists and maneater guard cross bows and pike ect ect
want more detail see my log

characters
pay master heavy armour shield warhorse lance 75

wizard leval 2 2xdispell scroll 145

boyar great weapon bow heavy armour horse lance 118

core
20 lost legionares 260

10 cross bows 80

5 wingned lancers standard champ 152

5 horse archers standard champ 113

5 horse archers champ 99

8 duelists with pistols 72

special
3 orges great weapons 132

maneater brace of pistols 86


rare
1 bronzino and a galloper gun 165

Jericho
24-03-2009, 06:45
Just wanted to post a quick update from the tourney. The first day went about as well as I could have hoped for (1-1-1). The second day was terrible. I had brutal luck, rolling garbage spells and miscasting nonstop. I ended up 1W 4L 1D, but at least I had some fun. People had a blast seeing a fully painted Dogs of War army with 99% of its models being real DoW minis and not proxies or converted plastic figs. Most of them had never seen a Dogs of War force in the flesh, especially not in a competitive environment. There were quite a few badass army lists there, including Teclis w/ 3 other mages, a massive pile of Dragons, Warspear-armed Ancient Stegadons, Oldbloods with Blade of Realities on Carnasaurs, Giants, Shaggoths, etc. Tons of Herohammer armies and a few deathstars. Lots of really nice guys with some boring cliche powergamer army lists.

Overall I was pretty happy with my decisions in the tournament, but I had no luck whatsoever in 5 of the 6 games. Tons of miscasts (compared to 2 IF rolls in total). My cannon misfiring half the time, and failing to wound the other half. I never once had an opportunity to Scout with my Manflayers, who I bank on for disruption/war machine hunting. Every table had 3-4 pieces of scenery tucked right into the corners of the board. Usually 2 hills, 1 forest, and one crater/rock/pond. Not a single place to Scout into usually, and no scenery anywhere near the center of the table to actually influence the games. Hardly ideal for me. I've always made excellent use of scenery to protect my flanks, cut off enemy units from the battle, etc. Never once got to use any of my favorite tactics :(

I also didn't like my army list. I paid a lot of points for magic and it didn't help in most of the games. The magic defense was never needed. I had like 2-3 spells get through against me all tourney, and those were either let through because they didn't matter or because I rolled double ones to dispel. Almost every phase I had 2-5 dispel dice unused, and I only used my Scroll in 2 games I think. DoW magic, unaided by arcane items, is too unreliable to bank on when making an army list. I'd rather have less magic and more troops next time.

Beware, this is gonna be a very long post!

Game 1, versus Double Dragon HE army. Draw.
Things looked very bad in the beginning. Turn one, I go first and don't manage to do much. Support magic is cast successfully, the Beast Cowers spell on my L2 is scrolled. The cannon misfires, not able to shoot again until turn 3 (by which point it's been killed by a Great Eagle). The next turn, I miscast the Beast Cowers on 2 dice, and roll a 10 (dropping the mage to L1 and forgetting the best spell I have). Somehowerather, my Manflayers manage to kill the Fire Mage and wound his Dragon before they get devoured. That helped a bit, and my 2 units of Pikes supported by tons of characters and spells managed to defeat the Dragon and 10 Dragon Princes in a big swirling multiple combat in the center. Things again took a bad turn when my Knights tried to flank charge the Star Dragon. They rolled 11 for Ld and 17 for their flee distance, taking them off the board. Amazingly, I managed to somehow win that big combat eventually and chase down the Dragon Princes. The Lord narrowly avoids getting killed, and then narrowly avoids being caught by the pursuit. He rallied on the last turn and I couldn't finish him off.

In the end, we both lost a few important units but our biggest points investments were all still alive. All of my pikes and characters survived, and I only got points for his Mage and half the Lord. Their Dragons weren't badly wounded enough to break the draw.

Game 2, versus Goblins. Minor Loss.
This description will be short. The game was an absolute joke for both of us. The scenario was Advanced Magic Flux, aka magic armies take it in the pooper. Your first spell is cast as normal, your second spell you discard all 6's from your roll, your third spell you discard all 5's and 6's from your roll... etc. Basically you get 2 spells a turn, 3 if you are obscenely lucky. I rolled my L4 and L2 on Fire, hoping to get Wall of Fire. If his units of Goblins moved, they would take 40-50 S4 hits each! Sadly neither mage rolled Wall of Fire or even Burning Head, so I couldn't ever cause enough damage to force a panic test. I ended one phase on the first spell miscasting, and the other phases only yielded a few roasted Goblins and/or support spells.

In the end our dice were completely insane, and the goofiest stuff kept happening. Literally about 6 times against Goblins and Trolls I rolled 90% or more hits, and then failed to cause a single wound. It kept happening over and over, with everything from crossbows, to pistols, to pikes. Completely insane rolls to hit, followed by no wounds whatsoever even if I only needed 4+. I lost my 20 Pikes, Paymaster and Truthsayer to his unit of Goblins which contained his general and BSB. Despite having my big unit buffed with multiple combat spells like Portent of Far and the Truthsayer's +1 to hit and 5+ ward save spells, and him netting himself(!!) I still lost the combat by 2 failed the Ld7 with re-roll break test. I was caught, and the Paymaster's death panicked a few units who luckily rallied next turn. After that insane display of dice rolling, my unit of 15 Republican Guard charged the same unit of Goblins, and despite being netted down to S2 they killed the BSB and broke the unit. I captured back my 2 banners, and took 2 of his in the process. Huge points swing turned the game back in my favor after my dice totally screwed me over for the first 4-5 turns. The game was very nearly another draw.

Game 3, versus my buddy's Empire army. Massacre win!
This game was awesome. Played my buddy Aaron, and I finally had a bit of luck. My cannon sniped his Popemobile on turn 1, and then never got to shoot ever again. My plans went awry and my Manflayers ended up blocking the Cannon's LOS for the rest of the game while they baited and danced around a big block of Flagellants that I wanted to keep away from combat. Pikes versus unbreakable troops is a bad matchup that I didn't want.

My completely unnecessary magic defense shut down like 95% of his prayers and bound items, and because I didn't roll any good damage spells I simply tried to keep his Knights out of the game while I buffed my Pikes and attacked his big blocks of infantry filled with Warrior Priests and the suddenly unmounted Archlector. I won the big fight in the middle, and sadly his Greatswords were panicked by the death of his Swordsmen and they were fleeing at the game's end without me ever attacking them with anything. I surrendered I think 125VP or something (a Maneater and 1/2 points for my Duelists), and in return I killed most of his units and 3 of his characters (characters were worth double VP in this mission as well). Pretty damn solid performance. One of my only games where I wasn't miscasting multiple times as well.

Game 4, versus a friend's Warriors of Chaos (Undivided/Khorne). Massacre loss.
This was a bit of a bad matchup, he's a strong player and ended up with a much better record than I did :p Once again my dice were appalling and I didn't accomplish much of anything after turn 1. I killed a unit of Knights and his Jugger, and then basically I just got fed into a wood chipper, failing to do anything useful and ending up completely wiped out.

The game was ugly. My cannon routinely failed to wound, it was probably under 50% before it blew itself up in turn 4 or 5. I rolled terrible spells, and for the second game in a row rolling the 4 least effective spells on the Lore of Metal. My magic proved completely useless. Plenty of cav/heavy infantry to worry about and no Spirit of the Forge :( My L2 mage, who up to this point had been very effective in a support role with Heavens (using Portent of Far, Lightning spells, and Second Sign to great effect without using any of my 2 pool dice) ended up being stuck with Portent of Far and Celestial Shield. On turn 1 I miscast Portent of Far on 2 dice, and once again rolled a 10 and forgot the spell. My Truthsayer wasn't any better. He rolled the 2d6 S2 magic missile, the 5+ ward save spell (which he miscast and rolled a 10, forgetting it!) and I think the one which heals every unit for 1 model. I never really got to use that, since I was losing zero models at range and then being wiped out in combat.

Jordan felt terrible for me, since I didn't do anything wrong and everything backfired on me all game. I lost like 2500-500VP. I also knocked my unit of Knights off the table, breaking most of them into 3+ pieces. My Pikes were also dumped off their movement tray when they were killed. We were supposed to vote for best painted after this game, and most people left for lunch before I had my models repaired and put back on their display stand.

Game 5, versus a Dwarf Gunline. Major loss.
Yet another terrible game. He had 3x10 Thunderers, 3x Cannons including a master engineer, an Organ Gun, a Gyrocopter, 10 Quarrelers, and a unit of 20 Ironbreakers with a Thane. He deployed in a straight line across virtually the entire table. I rolled nothing useful except the healing spell Gift of Life on my Truthsayer, I didn't get Distillation of Molten Silver OR bloody Spirit of the Forge on my L4, but at least my L2 rolled Celestial Shield and Portent of Far!

Turn 1, he goes first, kills my cannon, and nearly wipes out my Knights. I'm not too worried, since I figure Celestial Shield and Gift of Life could keep them alive until at least 1 model could get them into combat. I was wrong. Turn 1, I miscast Celestial Shield on 2 dice, forget the spell, and wound my L2 in the process. Same turn, my Truthsayer miscasts Gift of Life and rolls a 10, also forgetting the spell and wounding himself. Seriously, wtf is with my dice and rolling miscast 10 lol :p

Basically I had no choice but to walk into his guns for 4 turns before I made it into combat with the handful of models I had left. My L4, Paymaster and handful of Republican Guard charge 2 units of Thunderers, and nearly get wiped out by the stand and shoot reaction. My L4 in the magic phase rolls 3 dice to cast Commandment of Brass on his Organ Gun which was poised to annihilate my other unit of pikes which were in range of charging his Ironbreakers the next turn. He rolls 111, and snake eyes on the miscast chart. The ensuing explosion kills my L4, 2 Dwarfs, wounds my Paymaster, and kills one more Republican Guard. Holy crap I was not impressed.

In the end all I had left was one Crossbowman, Ricco, the wounded Paymaster, and my Pikes w/ wounded L2 and wounded Truthsayer who were still in combat with his Ironbreakers. I was surprised that I had that much left after everything backfired on me all game. Those few models represented a lot of my points. I killed his Thane in a single round of attacks from my Truthsayer in a challenge (that felt good!), 20 Thunderers (Ricco and the Paymaster killed them all by themselves basically), and that was about it.

Game 6 versus Bretonnians. Massacre Loss.
I changed up my strategy with magic, rolling L4 on Heavens and the L2 on Beasts. I rolled crap on Heavens but I got both Beast Cowers and Bear's Anger on the L2 which was cool. Truthsayer rolled 2 useless spells but at least he got the one which could make a unit Unbreakable.

Once again the game started off on an interesting note. I killed a smattering of Knights/Pegasi. He moves up a bit. I charge his Pegasus Knights with my Manflayers and Maneater, and charge his Yeomen with my Knights so that I might get my cav into his flanks at some point. The Manflayers and Maneater did nothing at all in combat except embarrass themselves, but at least the Paymaster was close enough to keep them in the fight. That dragged on for a few turns. My cannon misfires again, rolling a 1 and killing itself.

In the center of the board, my 20 Pikes w/ Paymaster and Truthsayer got charged by 2 lances of Knights, including his BSB and another Paladin kitted for challenges. I took a lot of damage, but the Unbreakable spell kept me in it. In the next turn, the Pegasus Knights finished off the Maneater and Manflayers, pursuing them into the flank of my Pikes. That's not good I thought!

In some bizarre Twilight Zone type combat phase, the big combat with 2 lances of Knights, Pegasus Knights, and my Pikemen resulted in zero wounds being inflicted by either of us. Again, wtf is going on with dice rolls in my games? Unbreakable spell keeps me around again.

Meanwhile, my Republican Guard and L2 w/ Bear's Anger cast on herself manage to rape the Grail Knights led by his Lord. I managed to flank charge them after they were forced to charge into my Duelist screen. It was glorious, I broke them and everything, but couldn't catch them. They managed to rally, and later charged my Republican Guard and got their revenge.

All in all it was a brutal game. Some bizarre dice rolls on both sides and once again I racked up a few minor miscasts.

mr.kislev
24-03-2009, 06:53
i think that is more due to bad rolling then tactics on your part. imagian if you sacrificed a goat to the dice gods you would be unstoppable

Jericho
24-03-2009, 07:00
Haha that was obviously my biggest mistake. I totally forgot the ritual pre-game blood sacrifices ;)

I still think my army list was too unbalanced to work properly. In the future I would probably keep the Truthsayer for my general, he was pretty decent most of the time. I really like 4/6 of is his spells, and he is a very well rounded character. Decent stats, 4+ ward save, S5 in combat, +1 to dispel, Ld9... a very good buy. I just happened to roll the 3 spells I needed least every game lol :p

The other magic users were not as helpful. The L4 was a complete waste most of the time, getting no good spells and then promptly miscasting them anyway. The lack of magic items to assist in spell generation and miscast protection makes this army build extremely unreliable. I'd consider taking a second L2, dropping the Staff of Sorcery and using all those extra points to get some combination or more pikes, crossbows or boosting up the heavy cav. 5 just isn't enough. I charged a big fat unit of Chaos Warriors in the flank with those Knights and lost the combat by 10... which tells me I need a better hammer unit!

Keller
24-03-2009, 13:47
So not too many people posted with their general army theme when it was asked before, so I'm gonna ask again :)

When you play Dogs of War, how do you build your army lists?

Magic-heavy? Gunline? Big blocks of Pikes? MSU with stuff like Duelists and Norse? All of the above? ;)

My Dogs of War army is one of coincidence, comprised of various models from other armies plus a few Regiments of Renown I collected for various reasons. As such, it isn't very cohesive in theme, but they're mercenaries!
I generally play very combat oriented armies w/ them, though balanced armies are common too (but I usually play Empire for that.) Whichever army I play is dependent on what other games I've been playing as of late (whether I want to mix up play styles) or campaign-based forces.

A Typical army is one of Pike and Light Cav suported by Duelists. This is actually my Warhammer Ancients Macedonian army :D

I also enjoy my fast-attack force comprised of Ogres, Light Cav, with a unit or two of Heavy Cav.

And of course, the balanced army of Pikes, Ogres, Cav, Crossbows, Cannons, etc.


From my collection I have:
Macedonians:

Light Cav w/ Spears
Pikemen
Duelists w/ Shield & Throwing Spear/Knife

Empire:

Crossbowmen
Duelists w/ Pistols
Duelist w/ AHW
Cannon
Paymaster Bodyguard
Heavy Cav

Ogre Kingdoms

Bulls
Iron Guts
Lead Belchers
Man Eaters

Regiments of Renown:

Bronzino's Galloper Guns
Bearmen of Ursolo
Vespero's Vendetta



And of course, plenty of character models. I would like to add some Dwarves or Norse, but never got around to it.

Jericho
24-03-2009, 17:45
Yeah Norse are a problem. What models to use? I wanted to do a unit of 21 using the Middenheimer metal models from the old Mordheim game... but it appears that they discontinued these models at some point! I'm choked, since the Marienburg and Reikland mercenary models are still available. I mean I wasn't exactly looking forward to spending $300 on a single unit, but it would've been cool.

Cypher, the Emperor
24-03-2009, 20:57
For Norse I would use Chaos Marauders withe symbols filed off with heads from the White Wolf head sprue.

Also: What is the general opinion of the DoW community on the Italian Campaign magic items, Yes? No? Maybe?

edit:

I have a small 500 point DoW army assembled from random miniatures I picked up over the years.

sroblin
24-03-2009, 21:15
The Marauder boxed set is the most obvious place to go, but the original 'Beorg's Bearmen' are a pretty cool looking boxed set, I imagine they could be found on e-bay or somewhere. I painted them kind dark-skinned with black armor, and they came out looking very grim; the fact that they are accompanied by a were-bear is also inspiring, if not necessarily WYSIWYG.
The norse marauder unit choice is one of the more solid unit choices in the generic list, and can be very hacky when equipped with greatswords and pretty decent defensively if given shields.

Jericho
24-03-2009, 21:44
I definitely want to get a unit with either GW or flails, so that I can actually have something in the army which deals out some decent attacks. Ranked 7x3 these guys could do a lot of damage for around 200 pts.

BTW what are the Italian Campaign items? Never heard of them.

lachlanwizard
26-03-2009, 03:51
what does everyone use for pistol duellists? i just need some that are reasonably accessable and cheap, of the same scale too. this is one of the problems with the army, so much unrealized scope

Jericho
26-03-2009, 04:16
They aren't exactly cheap, but Marienburg champions/captains from the Mordheim range are fantastic, at about $13 each. I have almost enough to make a second regiment and they will look bloody amazing when I get them finished. The Youngbloods were great too but sadly are unavailable.

Keller
26-03-2009, 12:44
what does everyone use for pistol duellists? i just need some that are reasonably accessable and cheap, of the same scale too. this is one of the problems with the army, so much unrealized scope I find the best solution is Empire Militia. There are 2 arms per sprue with pistols, so you could make 8 (of 20) per box w/o extra bits. Of course if you want more military-themed, you'd have to look elsewhere or do some nice conversions/painting. All of my Duelists are made from the Militia, but I tend to favor AHW and Throwing Knives over pistols, since pistols no longer work as AHW in combat. Shields aren't too shabby either, for a nice 5+ save in combat.

That's one thing I love about Duelists (and much of the DoW army,) their versitility. You can have excellent skirmishing combat troops or hard-hitting harassers that dance about with their pistols. Or you can take no equipment and have a mess of cheap skirmishers.



They aren't exactly cheap, but Marienburg champions/captains from the Mordheim range are fantastic, at about $13 each. I have almost enough to make a second regiment and they will look bloody amazing when I get them finished. The Youngbloods were great too but sadly are unavailable.

I love those models. I have a couple laying around somewhere I bought for Mordhiem when I played Marienburgers; I'd like to have a few more but they're just too expensive for me.

Jericho
26-03-2009, 18:55
The 2009 rulebook FAQ says that one pistol DOES grant the additional hand weapon bonus :D

lachlanwizard
27-03-2009, 11:19
They do, and i thought this was always the case?

Keller
27-03-2009, 15:15
The 2009 rulebook FAQ says that one pistol DOES grant the additional hand weapon bonus :D
Fantastic! I missed that FAQ. I haven't had much of a chance to play in a few months and am a bit out of the loop on updates.


They do, and i thought this was always the case? The were in 6th Ed, but when the 7th Ed rulebook came it, it seemed they no longer were (or atleast that's what I remember, been a while since I've played now.) It seems the FAQ fixed it, according to Jericho. Or maybe I was just wrong.

Jericho
27-03-2009, 18:22
It was pretty ambiguous before. They had a hand weapon and a pistol, which counted as a hand weapon in combat. It wasn't clear if this was an extra hand weapon or not, and now it is :)

Brace of Pistols + shield is also now a better option for someone like the Paymaster and/or Captain. If he wants the extra attacks he has it without paying more :p

mr.kislev
28-03-2009, 04:16
what i plan to use for dualists with pistols (in my kislev/DOW army) http://www.theassaultgroup.co.uk/store/product.php?productid=118&cat=13&page=1

Jericho
30-03-2009, 03:41
OK so I slightly modified my tournament list for 2250 play, I dropped most of the magic items on the characters (none were ever useful save for the Enchanted Shield anyway) and bulked out the units a bunch. Worked like a charm. First game with the new list, against an eerily similar High Elf army which I thought would cause me problems, actually went extremely smoothly.

My list:
Truthsayer – 265 pts
L4 Wizard Lord w/ Talisman – 225 pts
L2 Hireling Wizard – 95 pts
Paymaster w/ Heavy Armor, Enchanted Shield – 69 pts

24 Pikemen w/ Heavy Armor, Full Command – 294 pts
20 Ricco’s Republican Guard – 288 pts
2 units of 10 Crossbowmen – 160 pts
2 units of 8 Duelists w/ Pistol & Musician – 164 pts
6 Heavy Cavalry w/ Barding & Musician – 156 pts

10 Mengil’s Manflayers – 363 pts
1 Ogre Maneater w/ Heavy Armor, Handguns – 90 pts

Cannon – 85 pts

His army list:
Prince w/ 2+ reroll armor and 4+ ward
BSB with d6 combat res banner
18 White Lions, Immune to fear & terror
20 White Lions, ITP
20 Spears w/ command
20 Spears w/ command
10 Archers
10 Archers
2x Lion Chariots
2x Bolt Throwers

Very similar army structure! A few big blocks of combat troops with support units/characters, chariots to balance my cav, and very similar shooting phases. I thought with him getting first turn, him being higher movement than me, his ASF trumping pikes, etc. I might be in trouble.

The game ended up being another massacre victory for the Dogs. The Duelists and Manflayers did very well, and casting Wall of Fire against the 6x3 unit of Lions with his BSB on turn 1 was game-breaking. The 6 hits + missile fire took the unit down to about 60% strength, and he didn't want to risk moving until the spell was gone, since it would mean the unit would be down to the front rank only after all the S4 auto hits. Friendly games against my club mates I'm 4-0 with all wins being massacres. In the tourney I was 1W-4L-1D, and my only win was another massacre against a club mate :p I still blame my dice because I'm not doing anything different in these games where I'm winning, and many of the lists have been similar to the tourney matchups as well!

I am currently Photoshopping the maps for a full battle report. Some of the specific dice rolls and casualties and stuff will be estimated since I'm doing it by memory, but I think many of my moves and tactics were pretty textbook for Wood Elves and Dogs of War, using skirmishers to their absolute maximum effect. I lost most of my Duelists (had 2 rally, and 1 fleeing from the other unit at game's end), but they definitely paid for themselves by helping to eliminate the 6x3 Lions w/ BSB, 5x4 Lions w/ Lord, and 20 of the Spears. Fantastic return on the investment!

mr.kislev
30-03-2009, 05:28
so out of reading that dualists with pistols kick ass and i need more of them

Jericho
30-03-2009, 05:58
They are extremely useful, and very flexible. That's the main thing. They should be able to get 2 volleys of shots off most games (one being a stand and shoot reaction) and since there's so few modifiers to hit they are quite reliable. With 2A each (additional hand weapon bonus from the pistol) they aren't bad in combat either. Simply a steal for 9 pts each, one of the only things in the army which is a really solid buy compared to any other army (I think most units are slightly over-priced in the DoW list since there's unlike every army they have no magic items/banners to increase their effectiveness for a slightly higher points investment).

I'm almost done the stupid maps... this isn't a fast process but I'm sure once I get the hang of it doing more in the future will be faster :)

Jericho
02-04-2009, 08:21
I posted the Battle Report here (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191287). There's a rant about army selection/tactics at the bottom :)

RossS
02-04-2009, 17:56
My Dogs of War army is one of coincidence, comprised of various models from other armies plus a few Regiments of Renown I collected for various reasons. As such, it isn't very cohesive in theme, but they're mercenaries!

Though I don't use the list very often my Dogs of War army came about in a very similar fashion. It is very much an accidental, or as Wellington would put it, an "infamous" army. The human infantry come mostly from my Empire Nuln army, which was cobbled together using ye olde Human Mercenaries sprue, assorted plastic sets, brass wire and a dream. The more exotic elements came from units I had made/collected for the hell of it.

Over time it has developed a semi-cohesive identity of its own. I tend to use a lot of cavalry and shooting. By inclination I'm a defense-oriented player.

The list tends to look something like this.

Wizard Lord (generally a level three-geared for magical defense)
Paymaster (mounted, of course)
Pegasus-mounted captain
If points allow I will include a Hireling Wizard to further bolster my magic phase

One 30-strong block of Pikes on loan from my Nuln half-pike battalion
Two units of 10 crossbows (both are really armed with muskets.)
Two units of 10 duelists (one is made up of your standard scum of the earth types, including some Kislevites, while the latter are my hashashin conversions)
6 Voland's Venators (a unit I never leave home without)
6 Light Cavalry (I modeled them to look like extras from some Spaghetti Western...so they are positively dripping with pistols. In battle they count as being armed with spears)

3 Leadbelchers (I like Ogres...and cannons)
18 Long Drong's Slayer Pirates
Bronzino and a pair of galloper guns

That's the core of the 2000 points. It kicks out an enormous amount of firepower, and has many interacting mobile components.

Jericho
03-04-2009, 04:06
Would you mind posting some pics of those converted units, Rosss? They sound cool :D I plan to make a thread for my DoW at some point, I'm very tempted to re-base the army as I go back and polish up things and bulk out units to better sizes. It sounds strange but I really don't like the coarse gravel used on the older units of mine.

RossS
03-04-2009, 17:03
Would you mind posting some pics of those converted units, Rosss? They sound cool :D I plan to make a thread for my DoW at some point, I'm very tempted to re-base the army as I go back and polish up things and bulk out units to better sizes. It sounds strange but I really don't like the coarse gravel used on the older units of mine.

Sadly, I do not own a digitial camera, but I would be happy to describe how they were made.

The pikes are simply 6th edition "soldiers of the empire" plastics and bashed together with the dependable and eternally-useful human mercenary sprues. Take the soldiers' arms, hack off the spindly little halberds and replace them with good, solid brass wire. The process is a bit fiddly, but worthwhile. The rest of the figures are really just mash-ups of the two sets. New minis have been added, since I plan on making a second pike unit. These have heads on loan from the new Empire, 7th edition soldiers of the empire. Honestly the gaunt, ghastly-looking heads are my favorite part of the set.

The Musketeers are made using the same "mash-up" method, but replacing the brass wire with the muskets from the 6th edition plastic handgunners. One of the units is made by replacing the crossbows on the Lost Legion with the same 6th edition handguns. Easy conversions all around.

The Hashashin are very recent additions. Take Wood Elves archers and add thosewickedly curved blades from the new Corsairs. They look vaguely "Oriental" without being too...erm..."Aladdin-esque." I should note that I nicked this idea off some other, more inventive personage. I forget their name so am unable to cite them.

Light Cavalry are made using a kit-bash of new Soldiers of the Empire, Pistoliers and Free Company. The pistoliers lent their pistols (but not their arms), their legs and their fabulous (and massive!) steeds. The broad-brimmed hat-heads from the new Empire Soldiers were carefully husbanded and used to make my cavaliers somewhat cowboy-like. I painted them with appropriate degrees of stubble (thanks codex grey!) to finish off the look.

That's about it in terms of conversions. Hope it helps.

Does anyone have pdfs of the various army lists and regiments of the renown? I seem to have lost my original copies, and GW Australia and Canada's websites no longer exist. I guess I could use the one on GW Italia, but I do not speak Italian.

Keller
03-04-2009, 17:35
Does anyone have pdfs of the various army lists and regiments of the renown? I seem to have lost my original copies, and GW Australia and Canada's websites no longer exist. I guess I could use the one on GW Italia, but I do not speak Italian.

I should have them on my home PC. PM me your email address and I will see about sending them to you.

Makarion
03-04-2009, 18:00
I've got the pdfs for the army list and regiments of renown, but I cannot find the special characters file anymore - Lucrecia and so forth. Does anyone have that sitting around, perhaps?

Keller
03-04-2009, 18:06
I've got the pdfs for the army list and regiments of renown, but I cannot find the special characters file anymore - Lucrecia and so forth. Does anyone have that sitting around, perhaps?

I don't remember them being in PDF's, as they were in the 2003 Chronicles. I'll have to look aroud and see what I have tonight.

I always liked Lorenzo Lupo, since I always prefer infantry, but never use Special Characters. I painted the model up to be my Empire Elector Count (General now) on foot.

inq.serge
15-05-2009, 14:17
Hi.

Pistol-dualists seems to be the most important unit, so I was thinking, Converting skaven night runners into pistolists; Good idea or bad idea? Kevins krazy gunrats? The Pistol-pipers of Eshilin? Names suggestions?

Bloodknight
15-05-2009, 14:39
That's actually a good idea. Make them Skryre themed (they use those warplock pistols, don't they?), and you're good.

Keller
15-05-2009, 15:22
Hi.

Pistol-dualists seems to be the most important unit, so I was thinking, Converting skaven night runners into pistolists; Good idea or bad idea? Kevins krazy gunrats? The Pistol-pipers of Eshilin? Names suggestions?

Sounds like a great idea! Often times, diverse looking armies are some of the best looking ones!

inq.serge
15-05-2009, 18:09
S'kevins steamrats of skyre?

Maybe gonblar pistolists?

Jericho
16-05-2009, 00:26
Lorenzo is cool. A tiny bit overpriced perhaps. He could use a bit more defense, since he has a mediocre save and no ward/regen to back it up. That's my only beef with him.

Lucrezzia is insane though. By far my favorite of the bunch (and not just because the model is gorgeous!). A L4 wizard with no arcane items is a bit weak but her ability to poison enemy heroes is brilliant, getting d6 free stat increases and/or killing blow for a character/RoR Captain is a huge bonus, and the humans rallying automatically within 12" of her can be a lifesaver when you have a Ld8 army.

Put her in an army with somebody like the Bearmen of Oslo. Beorg turns into a pure goon when you give him +d6 stats and possibly even Bear's Anger from a L2 mage somewhere. Absolutely disgusting statline. KB goes on someone else since Beorg won't be using weapons.

Borgio is pure awesome, but he really should have Ld10.

inq.serge
30-05-2009, 16:04
Does anyone know where I can find the rules for the zombie pirates and the amazons? (other than in a long forgotten WD that I can't get my hands on ?)

Condottiere
30-05-2009, 16:16
While I don't care for zombies, information on the Amazons would be interesting.

Jericho
30-05-2009, 16:17
Zombie Pirates: http://sgabetto.free.fr/Telechargements/War.CZombiePirates.pdf

Don't know where to find the Amazon priestess though. I read WD306 but that might not help :p

inq.serge
30-05-2009, 16:40
Nope, I have that file.
And I was hoping for the one with rules on how to field them in DoW.

Amazons anyone?

Condottiere
30-05-2009, 17:07
I hope there's another version than those with ancient energy weapons.

Jericho
30-05-2009, 17:16
Wow I just dug out my WD306 and the Priestess sounds pretty rad. I'd love to have her, a Truthsayer, and a L4 in the same army just to see how people would react to 3 wizard lords in 2k ;)

Condottiere
30-05-2009, 21:35
Only one I could find was June 2005.

Jericho
30-05-2009, 21:39
BTW there were rules for the Amazons themselves somewhere right? Not just the Priestess? I have most of the WD's from that period (when I worked at the shop and got it free for 2 years!!) and now you guys have my interest piqued. It could be fun to add some of these gals to an army for variety but I don't know what they do :p If anyone knows if they were in WD I'd appreciate it.

<edit> WD 307 has the RoR. Time to rummage around and find that issue :D </edit>

inq.serge
30-05-2009, 21:46
There might be some in 308, and here are the additional rules:http://sgabetto.free.fr/Telechargements/AmazonRules.pdf

I'm sad, since I don't have the rules.

Condottiere
31-05-2009, 06:30
306 was the Zombie pirates.

BigRob
31-05-2009, 07:02
There were only two Amazon ROR in White Dwarf duing the lustria campaign.

One was the Serpent Priestess, the other was Anaconda's Amazons. Both were semi unimpressive, especially the priestess who suffers from a spell list that was okish. Both improved dramatically if you were using the Lustria Rules.

Condottiere
31-05-2009, 07:22
I'll have to get my hands on 307 and 308.

Condottiere
31-05-2009, 11:00
Probably need an alternate explanation for S3/12" energy bolt and 6+ Ward.

inq.serge
31-05-2009, 15:38
Do you guys think Gortex and Felix (1R) or Gilead and Fithvael (1h1r) are worth taking?

Gilead seems weakish, even though he's an elven lord with a greatish one use only ability. Fithvael is however worth taking. He's what everyone needs. He's a elf hero with longbow and crossbow, can shoot 3 times in the shooting phase (without multishot penalty), and scouts. He seems to be the only reason to take Gilead.

Gortex and felix seem nice.

Bugman and 5+ rangers? (old bugman rules, 1 rare in DoW) Are they good?

Jericho
31-05-2009, 17:24
When did Gilead get rules?? Never heard of them until now. The timing is crazy I'm halfway through Gilead's Blood right now and planning conversions/dioramas as potential GD entries :p

Condottiere
31-05-2009, 17:28
Gortex and Felix as one rare is a fairly good bargain.

Imagine, if you will, Gortex running towards the target to be eliminated, shouting, "It must suck to be you!"

Haven't come across any Gilead rules yet.

Jericho
31-05-2009, 18:52
From a cached version of the BL website as far as I can tell:

http://sgabetto.free.fr/Telechargements/Gilead.htm
http://sgabetto.free.fr/Telechargements/Fithvael.htm

The only real disappointment is the (Biting) Blade of Galeth, which only gives -1AS modifier. The book made it sound like a better weapon than that. Overall he's pretty cool though, one turn a game he makes an Alter Highborn look like an absolute pansy (8A!!). The re-roll to hit and wound against one enemy model is also nice.

inq.serge
31-05-2009, 19:42
But is Gil worth it? I know Fithvael is.

inq.serge
06-06-2009, 12:28
I maybe should post in the Rules-forum, but anyway:

Lets say I play big. Lets say 10K.

Now lets say I have a unit consisting of 1 Bellladonna, 1 Paymaster, 1 mounted lord wiith BoP, 1 Hero with same set-up and 1 knight style hero.

Now Lets say I have a truthsayer. He heals . Everyone gets 1 wound back.

Lets say the knight, who likes to challenge, dies, and the thruthsayer heals, is he returned at full W to the unit? I'd say so.

Gortex and felix, If one dies and the truthsayer heals, he returns. But do they regain W as characters?

Gilead and Fithvael are one unit, but are deployed separately. If one dies, and the thruthsayer heals, is that model regained? And do they regain wounds as characters?

Jericho
06-06-2009, 17:40
My interpretation of the rule is that you get one basic trooper back from every unit with its full compliment of wounds. It never mentions anything about characters, and in fantasy there seems to be a pretty distinct rules difference between units and characters (more than in 40k).

I think the only way to heal characters is with Lore of Life/Light, and all of them require the character to still be alive with at least 1 wound remaining.

inq.serge
07-06-2009, 10:34
It says that all characters, chariots and models with 4+ wounds regain a wound.

inq.serge
14-06-2009, 10:40
Sorry for double posting, but is this a good list:

Lucrezzia Belladona
380

Paymaster Lee'Karl Pimpkin
Brace of pistols, Heavy armour, barded warhorse, enchanted shield, talisman of protection.
112

Hireling wizard Ursa Ulv
Sword of battle, Dispel scroll
110

8 Duelists
40

5 Heavy cavalry
Full com, barding:
150

5 Light Cavalry
Spear, Bow.
80

11 Beorg Bearstruck And the Bearmen of Urslo
263

10 Richter Kreugars Cursed Company
305

Gortek and Felix
475

Cannon
85

Total: 2000pts.

The wizard is lore of beasts and will join beorg and only cast bears anger. Does she become frenzy?

In 2k, I have therefore, 4 heroes, 2 lords and one up to ws 6 st 8 t 7 w 4 a 9 superlord. ( 7 total.)

Is it a good list, or should I trade gortek and felix for something else?

Condottiere
14-06-2009, 12:33
My personal opinion is, regardless of whether you use them or not, if you have the Gortek and Felix miniatures to keep them.

Offhand, I can't recall frenzy being infectious.

inq.serge
14-06-2009, 12:57
I don't have the real minis, just WIP GS sculpts.

Rhaivaen
17-05-2010, 11:44
Where can I download this army book/ list? :shifty:

w3rm
18-05-2010, 21:52
What do you guys think about a really fast Dogs of War Army? I'm talking Duelists, Fast Cav, and Heavy Cav out the wazhoo. Asarnil and a Giant for killiness and a General on a Pegasus with Brace of pistols and a lance to help harass and war machine hunt.

Jericho
18-05-2010, 22:45
Poor man's Bretonnian list, to be honest. Their cav do all the same things but better. Granted their duelists are peasant bowmen :p I think the list could work, and is probably more competitive than most DoW builds, but don't expect overwhelming success.

Anyway I think it could work, since cav are one of the things in the list that aren't terribly overpriced. Definitely take a unit of Voland's Venators and feel free to ignore pretty much all other mounted Regiments of Renown, except maybe the Wolf Boyz. The skinks and the Desert Raiders or whatever are pretty useless and very expensive.

The Wolf Boyz (if you can get the models) are extremely flexible since they are a 4+ armor, M9, fast cav unit with both bows and spears. Kinda pricey but you have to respect the flexibility of a fast cav unit with decent armor save, shooting and essentially a hero for extra combat ability.

Rhaivaen
19-05-2010, 17:50
Where can I download this army book/ list? :shifty:
Euhm, anybody? :eyebrows:
Or where can i find it, if it's not downloadable...

Commissar Vaughn
19-05-2010, 19:03
You want to go to the Dogs of war home away from home. Where all respectable mercenaries gather to swap pictures of their troops and exchange heroic and improbable tales of the battles theyve fought and the enemies theyve vanquished.

http://www.dogsofwaronline.com/

Ask for Bilbo, the librarian, and thou shalt be furnished with PDFs that explain fully the mercenarys role.

My own Troops are to be found there...or they were I think I might have to relink the pics....

http://dogsofwaronline.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=494

Rhaivaen
19-05-2010, 20:11
You want to go to the Dogs of war home away from home. Where all respectable mercenaries gather to swap pictures of their troops and exchange heroic and improbable tales of the battles theyve fought and the enemies theyve vanquished.

Ask for Bilbo, the librarian, and thou shalt be furnished with PDFs that explain fully the mercenarys role.


Took a bit of searching, but i managed to do it :) thnx.

Jericho
26-06-2010, 03:52
Just a random thought about Duelists. How good do these guys sound in 8th? March and shoot, 12" range on pistols (haven't confirmed myself but that's what I hear), and I also heard some craziness about skirmishers being able to negate rank bonus now? These guys will be amazing to support Pikemen (who with some of the Augment spells out there could start to get insanely dangerous themselves... can you say "Fight in 5 ranks with S7 from Mind Razor?").

If that's how it all works then sign me up for much bigger units of these awesome little buggers. 2x8 doesn't quite cut it, I was thinking more like 12-15 per unit would be pretty choice.

Maybe it's a good time to start thinking about how 8th will breathe some new life into the old list. Common magic items worth taking (and plenty of them)? Check. Big units of ranked infantry getting better? Check. Ogres getting way better and making elite heavy cav way less necessary? Oh yeah, check that too. Cannons getting d6 wounds and removing the retarded cap on DoW rare choices that screwed us out of any anti-monster shooting? Checkity check check.

I'm looking forward to playing around with the army again for the first time in a while.

inq.serge
26-06-2010, 08:07
Does long drongs slayer pirates have braces of pistols (it says "Loads of pistols", and their festoned with pistols say that they have a pistol in every hand)?

If so, a unit of 14 could move, shoot 28 shots, get charged, stand and shoot 28 shots, and then shoot 23 shots in CC. That's a hell lot of attacks, and things like swordmasters won't have a chance.

I also got my hands on mengil and co. Anyhow.

Do you think a fast skirmishy army with maximum 2 or 3, maybe 4 blocks ( dwarves, long drong, kruegers cursed, and maybe golgfag) and many small units (like cannons, hot pots, solo maneaters, and maybe my new fenbeast if I get a thruthsayer/emissary in the list) could perform well?

Do you think the emissarys coil of the serpent is worth it now that he can cast it on 7+?

And the best thing is; 50 pts a hero.

A guy, while holding the new rulebook, said that character may join characters to form units of only characters. So, just put them in a unit, and cast all kinds of buff spells and items (especially from lore of beasts and light) (+1 t +1 s, +3 t, +3 s + 3 a, ws 10 i 10, + 1 a double movement, pavona potion, +3 s potion, +3 i potion, +3/2/1 s or a sword, anything, everything), and you've got yourself a unit with 8 st 8 ws 10 i 10 attacks per model as basic (Extra hand-weapon seems like an irresistible choice) .

Let the carnage begin!


But the best thing, hordy opponents with many heroes will suffer as Bella poisons them!

Jericho
26-06-2010, 08:40
:eek: So many comments and questions Serge I have no idea where to begin!

It's always been assumed that Slayer Pirates have a brace with extra rules on top of it. Sadly never been FAQ'ed or clarified officially, but it's the only ruling that makes sense. Makes them kinda nasty in 8th, and I hadn't even thought of that :evilgrin:

Pistols really did need to get higher range, as the average charge distance increased so radically. Even Dwarfs charge 5-15". A big increase from a flat 6" that's for sure

Mengil will be an interesting choice, as skirmishers can march and shoot like fast cav now. Extra mobility for those poison shot spammers, so they can ideally be running around and doing a bit more flanking than they used to.

I don't know how many big blocks you can afford in most game sizes (I usually had 2-3 in 2250 and a bunch of support units) and a couple small supporting units as well. I still think that's about the best you'll be able to pull off. Cursed Company and some of the others you mentioned are horribly overpriced so I wouldn't bank on them at all.

Anyway if you're looking for some seriously retarded character spam, try this on for size! Unit of 50 Pikes led by 10 naked Captains. The entire front rank is WS5 S4 T4 W2 A3 characters who need to be singled out individually to be attacked. You take a lot of wounds before you start pulling off a significant amount of models. And you get to attack with all 50 pikemen in the back (horde). Even a single buff spell on that unit makes them incredibly silly. Granted it's 1000 points of craziness, so it should be good ... might be worth a laugh :D

Or if you want to save 100 points, put the musician and standard bearer on the corners of the unit and have "only" 8 captains. They can even have some equipment this way!! Heavy armor/shield is my vote, lol :D

Kerill
26-06-2010, 11:04
DOW have got quite a few boosts, the new magic items clearly being a substantial one.

The new shooting rules help crossbowmen and long drongs as mentioned. The hot pot is now about as good as every other stone thrower (S3) and with no partials its a bargain for 50 points. DOW Cannons now cause D6 wounds (probably not the galloper guns though).

Then we have the boost to infantry and monstrous infantry, which have always been farly useful in DOW armies. Not sure if pikes will still be worth it but norse marauders with GW can fulfill a similar role to WOC ones and although they are a bit more expensive and have to pay for light armour they have a smaller base as well. GW dwarves aren't a bad unit to hold the line either.

Then we have the new lores. Lore of life would be very handy for healing monstrous infantry like maneaters and other ogres.

I think they are a lot less low tier in 8th if still not by any means a "hard" army.

Commissar Vaughn
26-06-2010, 11:18
After a brief discussion on The Dogs Of War Online, it would appear pikes may have recieved a slight boost due to a rearranging of the way certain rules are applied: the rule for reducing the number of ranks you fight in when moving now applies only to spears...

Therefore pikes now fight in 4 ranks even when charging. Not much, but maybe enough.

inq.serge
26-06-2010, 12:35
Actually, pikes fight in 5 ranks now.

But the best part is:

Ricco W/ big block of pikemen + Belladonna, giving kiss and potion to ricco and casting midrazor on his unit.

St7 (8 against cav) ASF pikemen?
Can it be better? Yes, yes it can, cast the basic beasts spell and they get st8(9).

And in a big unit, I doubt even chaos knights would have a chance. Nor a bloodthirster.

Pikemen: Totally worth it (if you got magic).

I don't know how what you like, but I think I love the new buff-spells the most (for DoW), and I am going to go buffer-heavy-magic.

Commissar Vaughn
26-06-2010, 13:33
Actually, pikes fight in 5 ranks now.
True, I just wasnt sure anyone else had noticed they didnt lose ranks though for moving....

Kerill
26-06-2010, 15:13
True, I just wasnt sure anyone else had noticed they didnt lose ranks though for moving....

I'm not sure that pikes do fight in 5 ranks now though- the army"book" only states they fight in four ranks. I'm not sure the new rulebook will allow them to fight in a fifth.

They will, however, be able to re-roll missed hits in the first round against Saurus, orcs, skeletons and any other troops that are I1 or I2 since they have ASF first round.

inq.serge
26-06-2010, 15:22
As all spears attack in 3 ranks and high elf spearmen attack in 4, the dogs attack in 5.

When 10 wide, they attack with 6 ranks.

Mindrazor that!

Kerill
26-06-2010, 15:28
As all spears attack in 3 ranks and high elf spearmen attack in 4, the dogs attack in 5.

When 10 wide, they attack with 6 ranks.

Mindrazor that!

No, spears allow you to fight with an extra rank. HE martial prowess rule allows them an extra rank. I.e. these rules both add on to the number of ranks the unit can usually fight in.

The rule for pikes is 4 ranks (not an extra 3 ranks).

Hence I'm not sure pikes will be able to fight in 5 ranks.

Jericho
26-06-2010, 19:39
Fair enough, I see your point on the specific wording of pike rules. That's still a lot of attacks that can be buffed into being useful :)