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steinerp
09-12-2008, 02:06
Hi- I'm a long time elf player but I'm starting up an orc army for a local league. Basically 1500 points have are fixed and 750 points are flexible based on your opponent. With those guidelines here is what I am thinking of taking and would appreciate feedback

So I got the orcs yesterday so it is time to start making lists for the Great Lakes Warhammer League. Basic rules are 1500 points fixed 750 variable game to game. This is what I am thinking for the fixed portion.

Black orb warboss with akkrit axe, best 'at, kicking boots 260
Night goblin shaman, wolf chariot,2 scrolls 160
25 orcs, full command, shields 180
25 orcs, full command, shields 180
25 big uns with 2 choppas 305
2 snotlings 40
2 snotlings 40
spider riders w/bows 70
22 night goblin archers with 2 fanatics 116
2 spear chuckas 70
orc chariot 80

and here are some options for the 750, the first item on each line is the "default" option.

Black orc boss, battle standard, banner of mork, boar, heavy armor

Black orc big boss, heavy armor, shield
The banner of mork is what keeps this out of the fixed list. If playing dwarves or a non magic heavy army this may get dropped.

10 black orcs, shields, full command, waagh banner
Likewise the waagh banner might go on the bsb in some setups.

5 hoppers or another fast cav unit depending on if I need the immune to pysch the hoppers give

2 river trolls or 3 regular trolls or a couple of pump wagons

doom diver or rock lobba or chariot

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Malorian
09-12-2008, 14:37
Don't take champs in orc units. They are just too expensive and not worth it.

25 Big un's!!! That's way too big. You are paying WAY more for ranks and this expensive block dies just as easily as a regular one. I'd suggest simply dropping the big un upgrade.

You might want to plan to have some wolf riders. They are great for baiting and taking out warmachines.


Hope it goes well :)

Brando
09-12-2008, 14:50
See, now I disagree with Malorian on orc bosses. They keep your big nasty characters like warbosses from being challenged by unit champions and they add a lot to a unit of orcs in terms of hitting power. That extra point of WS and S (especially the strength as then you are punching through armour much easier) really makes a big difference. Mind you, I run my boys with double choppas as I like the idea of mangling a dude with basically a couple big pipe wrenchs.

Agree about the wolves though...very VERY useful (until you fail animosity 4 turns in a row). Keep them near your general though as otherwise they'll panic off the board.

Big 'Uns are crap as are black orcs. They have all the weaknesses of regular orcs and the "advantages" don't outweigh the cost. They do hit hard, but I just find them so hard to justify. A unit of boys with a chariot in support works much better and costs less.

I'd take squig hoppers cause squig hoppers are the bomb...but that's just me.

neXus6
10-12-2008, 11:04
I agree with Brando on the bosses.

I disagree about Big 'Uns and Black Orcs being crap, though I do feel 10 Black Orcs is way too small to be useful, the extra damage more than out-weighs the cost in my opinion and when you have both the enemy really does have a hard time dealing with them. A unit that can spit out 11 ws4 s5 attacks round 1 while having full rank, standard and probably outnumber is brilliant in a Greenskin army. The only important thing to remember is that while they are elite Orcs they are not superorcs you just need to use them like you would any other Orc unit, in conjuction with support units and characters.
:D

Just the other day I saw an army with Big 'Unz and Black Orcs run a Vampire Counts army (played by a very good and experianced player) to a draw if not minor victory in the Greenskins favor. I'd also say that on occation having Morks Spirit Totem actually on the Big 'Un unit rather than the BSB can pay off, if you think the enemy are going to be doing some character sniping on your BSB, it also means you can be more agressive with the BSB.

While for tournaments I can see people arguing that Big 'Unz and Black Orcs are pointless really the O&G book in general isn't built for tourneys, it is, in my opinion, the most balanced and fun list in the game, perfect for your normal average game of Warhammer. ;)

On the Troll front 3 is fine, though I'd say 4 is the perfect unit size, and don't bother upgrading them, just take the extra troll, the upgrades are too expensive. :p

Squig Hoppers are indeed amazing though I would try to queeze some wolves in somewhere aswell. Particularly when you have such a big unit of Big Unz you need to go for target saturation and decoy units to make sure that if the opponent does focus everything on the Big Unz you'll be getting flank charges and into their missile troops all over the place.

steinerp
10-12-2008, 17:54
Thanks for the comments so far. Here is my revised list.

Black orb warboss with akkrit axe, best 'at, kicking boots, boar, shield 263
Goblin shaman, wolf chariot,2 scrolls 165
25 orcs, full command, shields 180
25 orcs, full command, shields 180
25 big uns with 2 choppas, command 305
2 snotlings 40
5 wolf riders w/musician, bows 71
5 wolf riders w/musician,bows 71
5 spider riders with musician 71
2 spear chuckas 70
orc chariot 80

1496

You'll note it 4 points short of 1500 and it has to be at least 1500 points per league rules. The options for those final points are A)spears for a unit of wolf riders B) bows for the spider riders C) an orc bully for one of the spear chuckas or D)an extra orc for the chariot.

Any thoughts on which option to choose or other options altogether would be appreciated.

Malorian
10-12-2008, 18:01
So you can't be under 1500 but you can be over? Huh...

Well from those options I'd add spears to a unit of wolve riders.

Stuffburger
10-12-2008, 18:12
I've had luck running Big'uns as a small (10-15) flanking unit with double choppas, boss and musician. If they don't get shot up they are a serious hitter, but they will die every time.

I'm probably the only person on warseer to think this, but I think black orcs are worth it, or at worst only a point too much. With a horde army like O&G not having room to get every unit into comabat is a problem and the ability to make it a bit "denser" is invaluable, especially when playing on a smallish board or one with a decent amount of terrian. Also you can run them with Gork's Waaagh! banner and on a turn that a Waaagh! is called get an effective charge of 8 + 2d6"- quite the brutal surprise for a unit that thought it's flank was out of reach.

Strongly agree with the suggestion to add wolf riders- one of the best units O&G has to offer and 2-3 small units of them in a 2250 should be considered as "must-have" as those 2 spear chukkas

My $.02

steinerp
10-12-2008, 18:35
Malorian- Yes I can be up to 750 points over. Basically this is the "fixed" portion of the list. When games are played you each get to see the other's fixed list and fill out the rest of your army up to 2250. If you want all 2250 to be fixed you could, but than you couldn't change anything game to game

Malorian
10-12-2008, 18:38
Oh right, forgot about that.

I'd still go with the spears.

neXus6
10-12-2008, 18:52
I'm probably the only person on warseer to think this, but I think black orcs are worth it, or at worst only a point too much.


I disagree about Big 'Uns and Black Orcs being crap...

Don't worry your not alone. :D

I understand how small support units of Big Unz, and probably black Orcs as well, could be used and useful, but as you say once you get up to 2000+ pts you tend to get very cramped for space on a 6'x4' board with a "proper" ;) Greenskin army. That's why I'm a fan of big units of them, full static combat res and lethal. :)
Plus small units in a Greenskin army just feel wrong to me, aside from special cases like warmachines, hoppers and trolls. :p