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VVar
09-12-2008, 23:28
Came up with a relatively insane list to play in one of my last league games. Looking for thoughts in general. One thing to note is that I care more about whether or not this list would do well against a generic WAAC VC list. Any advice in this field is greatly appreciated.

On to the list:


1 Supreme Sorceress @ 640 Pts
General; Magic Level 4
Pendant of Khaeleth
Focus Familiar
Black Dragon

(Utility. Level 4 provides magic offense and defense, dragon provides what a dragon always provides; beatstick and deterrent. Also keeps the level 4 relatively safe, 2/3 chance to absorb ranged, and then PoK comes into play to hopefully prevent much more. I usually run a level 4 only on a Peggy, but with this type of army I think that it will be better on the dragon. Combining charges with a hydra should be able to knock out a unit and kill the vamp inside. Focus familiar is for the obvious; being able to cast magic missiles while in combat, and also to play it safe for a couple of turns and cast from behind terrain)


1 Sorceress @ 197 Pts
Magic Level 2
Dispel Scroll
Dispel Scroll
Dark Steed

(Magic defense and offense, again. Dispell scrolls to get through the really tough ones. I nearly always take two, regardless of the list I'm playing. Dark steed is so she can join a unit of DR and be highly mobile yet still have some semblance of protection. Not much more to say here)

5 Dark Riders @ 117 Pts
Spear; Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician
5 Dark Steed @ [0] Pts

5 Dark Riders @ 117 Pts
Spear; Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician
5 Dark Steed @ [0] Pts

5 Dark Riders @ 117 Pts
Spear; Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician
5 Dark Steed @ [0] Pts

5 Dark Riders @ 117 Pts
Spear; Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Musician
5 Dark Steed @ [0] Pts

(Harassment, shooting, and charges! Likely they will split up and help get flank charges on units fighting hydras; until then they will focus fire on the units getting magicked. Also plan on doing a significant amount of baiting, march blocking, and charge redirecting. Basically, what DR's always do, but this time, more of them. I am a bit worried about how fragile they are; a couple magic missiles can very easily reduce the unit to where it can't hold quarters, but that is why I am here asking advice Smile


5 Harpies @ 55 Pts

5 Harpies @ 55 Pts

(Almost exclusively for march blocking and knocking out 4-5 man units of summoned zombies. I've grown tired of having a tiny little unit spawned in front and ruining my good charges; at least now I can just wipe that unit out with a good charge and set up a little bait unit. If they are shot down with magic....less dark riders are taking hits!

1 War Hydra @ 175 Pts
2 Beastmaster @ [0] Pts
Beastmaster's Scourge

1 War Hydra @ 175 Pts
2 Beastmaster @ [0] Pts
Beastmaster's Scourge

(What's to say about two Hydra's? Not much else other than one hydra. Pretty basic here. They will be flaming grave guard and avoiding combat for a good while until optimal flank and rear charges are situated. Hydras take magic missiles very well, provided they are not fire, so that shouldn't be much of an issue. I will just have to be extremely careful not to get them charged by ethereal units; I absolutely hate watching a no wound hydra get whittled down to nothing by a couple of Spirit Hosts summoned from Wind of Undeath...arg!)



5 Shades @ 241 Pts
Great Weapon; Rptr Crossbow

5 Shades @ 241 Pts
Great Weapon; Rptr Crossbow

(Generic shade setup. They will march block and shoot, and not much else. If a good charge presents itself, I will take it, which is why the great weapons. I want them to be able to do some CC damage if necessary. Focusing fire with my magic and DR's should hopefully lead to opponent summoning more and magic missile casting less, but we will see)

1 Dark Elf Assassin @ [151] Pts
2ndWeapon
Rending Star
Manbane

1 Dark Elf Assassin @ [151] Pts
2ndWeapon
Manbane
Rending Star

(Tons of controversy here; does poison apply to the rending stars?? Is there an FAQ on this issue?? I know that a recent GT allowed it, but I feel like a jerk using it against people without backing myself up. If a link could be provided, I would be greatly appreciative. Anyways, their role is varied. I gave them XHW so that they could still hit relatively well in combat. Rending stars I found to be great against just about anything. Low T=wound on 2's, higher on 3's or 4's. Hitting on 2's. Etc etc. I used one for the first time a short while ago, to great success.)


Casting Pool: 8

Dispel Pool: 5

Models in Army: 51

Total Army Cost: 2247


That's about it...

Khaos
10-12-2008, 00:26
might wanna recheck the points values on your shades units. dont have my book nearby but 241 per 5 shades definately seems off to me:p

VVar
10-12-2008, 03:36
Army builder weirdness; it's including the cost of the assassins

Asmodai48
10-12-2008, 04:53
You might want to think about more magic protection.

VVar
10-12-2008, 06:20
It's hard to fit in...ring of hotek and 2 scrolls is my basic protection...but with this list that wouldn't work. 5 DD and 2 scrolls not enough?

Asmodai48
10-12-2008, 06:26
Maybe im just blind from not having slept yet (been 23 hours now) but i cant see the ring in your list.

backslide
10-12-2008, 09:08
manbane on the stars isn't that much of an issue as they are S5 anyways, I would be tempted to give one rune of kane and black lotus for the over kill in challenges

VVar
10-12-2008, 16:47
Maybe im just blind from not having slept yet (been 23 hours now) but i cant see the ring in your list.

It's not there :). Like I said, that's the norm for me, but in this list it just won't work becuase of my magic offense.

@backslice- the problem isn't the str 5, Its when they start autokilling chariots. And thanks for the suggestion on the assassin; still trying to figure out if a ToD+RoK+black lotus (killing blow build) would be a better choice

EvC
10-12-2008, 17:11
I've played against some armies very similar to this (only with 2 RBT instead of Hydra, and at 2K), and they were without doubt the dullest games I've ever played. My opponent was bored as well. Good luck to you.

There are two schools of thought on Manbane/ Rending Stars:
1) "I'm a Dark Elf powergamer and my army has no way to deal with chariots and other big gribblies, so therefore it's only right and proper that I get S7 and insta-kill on chariots with zero effort. I also believe that Manbane is used to coat the Assassin, not the weapon, to achieve this effect."
2) "Hi, I'm Gav Thorpe. I wrote the book. The Rendig Stars can not get up to S7."

I know which way I'd side with...

VVar
11-12-2008, 02:19
If the author saysno, I have chosen my side as well :). As for the list, both my opponent and myself are trying to bring extremely hard lists. If I were facing a balanced list, I would bring one to the table. No offense, but be careful with the stereotyping, as I did note the competitive nature of my opposition in my first post. Thanks!

backslide
11-12-2008, 12:02
guys man bane only works up to S6... the strength bonus of the posion would have no effect

it does look dull to play

ditch some dark riders and get some spears/corsairs even 1 unit is better than nothing 2 would be better, gives your oponate somthing to focus on, somthing he can feel like he can kill, makes people actually want to play you again! and rank bonus never hurts!

g0ddy
11-12-2008, 18:20
It's not there :). Like I said, that's the norm for me, but in this list it just won't work becuase of my magic offense.

@backslice- the problem isn't the str 5, Its when they start autokilling chariots. And thanks for the suggestion on the assassin; still trying to figure out if a ToD+RoK+black lotus (killing blow build) would be a better choice

Its completely nonsensical to add the strength bonus of the stars after the strength bonus of the poison against a toughness 5 chariot... see the slayer rule in the dwarf army book.

ToD sucks imho, killing blow in general sucks on characters. Its fantastic on UNITS... like wights - playing the lottery w/ a hero only to have the dice not come up in your favor and you get your face stomped in return sucks. Youre better off with Manbane and Rune of Khaine Imho.

~ zilla