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10-12-2008, 16:32
the spell in the lore of nurgle that fires like a stonethrower, if the original target doesn't have MR but it scatters onto a target with MR how do you work that out?

should the shot and scatter be worked out before the cast (seems unfair as if it misses they obviously won't waste dice to dispell it)?

should the dispell be based on the intended target, and if it scatters to an MR unit that is left to the dice?

how have you guys worked this out if it has been encountered? I imagine with the large amount of demon players in the tourney scene it should have popped up by now

EvC
10-12-2008, 16:40
Unfortunately with a question like this it's really hard to answer, primarily because you're going to be getting lots of differing opinions mostly based primarily on the ideal of "what benefits me the most"?

As a Nurgle Warrior player, I'd say, declare the spell and one target model. If the template would hit a unit with MR, then they get the extra dice. Work out the dispel attempt, then if the spell succeeds, it scatters where it scatters, and the unit that is actually hit cannot use MR.

markoman
10-12-2008, 16:57
Unfortunately with a question like this it's really hard to answer, primarily because you're going to be getting lots of differing opinions mostly based primarily on the ideal of "what benefits me the most"?

As a Nurgle Warrior player, I'd say, declare the spell and one target model. If the template would hit a unit with MR, then they get the extra dice. Work out the dispel attempt, then if the spell succeeds, it scatters where it scatters, and the unit that is actually hit cannot use MR.

That is exactly how I have worked this out in the past.

theunwantedbeing
10-12-2008, 17:07
Simple way of working it out.

Declare how many dice you will use to try to dispel the spell.
Then, declare how many additional magical resistance dice you will add to the spell if the unit(s) with magical resistance are affected.
You'll have to declare different amounts depending on the unit's affected if they have differing magical resistances.

Then you resolve where the spell affects, even if the initial dice dispelled it (as there is a chance of an overriding miscast from the MR dice).
If the MR units are affected, add the dice and apply the result.

eg.
You decalre you will use 3 pool dice to stop the spell, and a single magical resistance dice if the unit with magical resistance is affected.

6,6,1
Dispelled, however the target must be found as if the magical resistance unit is hit then their dice will be added to the dice used, and if it is a 1, then it will be a miscast and the spell will work.

It sounds overly complex but in practice its very simple.

nosferatu1001
10-12-2008, 17:36
By the time the spell has a chance to scatter and hit the MR unit, it has already been succesfully cast - it is therefore not possible to add the MR in.

simplest solution is to not allow MR - the spell has cast and the winds of fate have carried the lovely nurgle filth to the lovely unit ;)

Lordsaradain
10-12-2008, 17:41
Unfortunately with a question like this it's really hard to answer, primarily because you're going to be getting lots of differing opinions mostly based primarily on the ideal of "what benefits me the most"?

As a Nurgle Warrior player, I'd say, declare the spell and one target model. If the template would hit a unit with MR, then they get the extra dice. Work out the dispel attempt, then if the spell succeeds, it scatters where it scatters, and the unit that is actually hit cannot use MR.

This sounds like the simplest option.

Deacon Bane
10-12-2008, 19:19
I can't remember if this was FAQ'd last edition or this one, but doesn't the unit have to be targeted in order to get it's MR?

foehammer888
10-12-2008, 19:39
I believe for MR to take effect, the unit must be targeted by a spell or be within its area of effect. This is problematic, as in the case of a scatter, the unit was not originally within the area of effect, but ended up in the area of effect.

Based on my opponent, I would work it out as follows.

1) cast the spell
2) attempt to dispel, leaving the result rolled on the table
3) if the dispel initially fails, roll to determine its landing location. If it lands on a unit with MR, my opponent could choose to roll that many additional dice and add it to his initial attempt to dispel.

Its totally bunk when referencing GW rules, but I think its the fairest result. If you determine where it lands before dispelling, you are giving the defender an advantage as he will know whether the spell will hit if successfully cast. Like waiting to dispell flickering fire until after the caster has determined # of hits and strength (whether its 2 S2 hits or 7 S7 hits). If he wants to comit more dice to it than his available MR, he needs to do it before he knows where it lands.

nosferatu1001
10-12-2008, 19:44
Foehammer - that way seems to make less sense. MR only applies if a unit is affected by a spell during casting. If you cannot determine if the unit with MR would be affected, then you cannot use MR.

Once the spell is cast, it is cast. MR is irrelevant at this point, and just adds complications that arent supported in the rules

stripsteak
10-12-2008, 20:23
the rules for MR are kinda (ok pretty) unclear. they say both "extra dice that may be rolled when trying to dispel each spell that affects the magically resistant model" and also "these can either be used on their own against any spell targeted against the unit, or in combination..." so in two sentences right after the other they say any spell affecting and then any spell targeting.

I'd personally go with the ruling that the initial affect or target must include the MR resistant unit to get their dice. if that unit gets hit as a result of the spell scattering then they were prepared for the sudden magic assault and the means of their resistance is negated as the fluffy reasoning behind it.

you get both sides of the coin this way, if the inital affect would get MR and then scatter to a unit that doesn't have MR you got a little bonus protetion, but if its the other way around you lot a little bonus protection, over time it should even out.

Edit
10-12-2008, 21:27
I just don't want to seem cheesy targeting a unit of fiends and having it scatter onto say an MR1 unit of bloodletters, as I can easily see it doing that. I wouldn't intend to hit the bloodletters with it as why cast spells at MR units that there are other ways of killing, but don't want free MR on the fiends unit because it scattered 2 inches and clips one bloodletter.

It is an odd one as it will benefit one player one way, and the other player the other way, My local group is easy going and would do whatever, usually we just dice off for it (we dice for everything, just easier that way)

Drow__Warrior
10-12-2008, 21:42
The dispel attempt takes place before the spell is resolved. You can't have it cast , roll dispel, then see what happens and add to the dispel, that's absurd.


1. Cast the spell, pick a target. If that unit has MR then you can try to dispel using the extra dice.

2. Spell fails or succeeds.

3. Resolve the spell and scatter it, anyone who gets hit with it and has magic resistance, too bad. The spell is already being resolved.

Necromancy Black
10-12-2008, 21:54
I'm personally with the people saying they do not get the MR dice. Once the spell has been cast it's casted, nothing in the rules allows you to dispell it. If it scatters only a unit with MR so be it, it's basically irrisitible force.

It's not an ideal situation, but it's the best one to play. Basically, only if the unit is know to be affected or targets, before the spell is succusfully cast, will any MR take affect. Afterwards it's too late.

Goruax
10-12-2008, 22:10
Drow's route is the one which is supported by the rules.
The spell is cast, with a certain effect in mind (ie, 1 unit without MR) - you either dispel it now, or do not dispel it.
If it scatters, then it really is just too bad.