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testosteronicon
11-12-2008, 22:49
Here's a list I've come up with that focuses on fast movement and denying the opponent a good magic phase.

I don't have a lot of experience against the different armies out there, so I would appreciate comments from you experts :)


CHARACTERS:

450 points:
Vampire Lord (magic lvl 3)
- Master of the Black Arts
- Ghoulkin
- Summon Ghouls
- Skull Staff
- Cadaverous Cuirass
- Biting Blade
- Nightmare

190 points:
- Necromancer (Vanhel's)
- Corpse Cart, Balefire
- Staff of Sorcery

190 points:
- Necromancer (Vanhel's)
- Corpse Cart, Balefire
- Book of Arkhan

253 points:
- Wight King
- Additional Hand Weapon
- Skeletal Steed, Barding
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Drakenhof Banner



CORE UNITS

16 Crypt Ghouls (136 points)
Ghast

16 Crypt Ghouls (136 points)
Ghast

16 Crypt Ghouls (136 points)
Ghast

10 Dire Wolves (90 points)
Doom Wolf

10 Dire Wolves (90 points)
Doom Wolf

5 Dire Wolves (40 points)



SPECIAL UNITS

6 Fell Bats (120 points)

3 Fell Bats (60 points)



RARE UNITS

2 Varghulf (350 points)


Idea is place the units like this:

Ghouls Varghulf Ghouls Varghulf Ghouls

And then all the wolves and bats behind this line.
Before the battle begins
=> all ghouls 8 inches straight ahead (Balefires among them).

In the first movement phase
=> again move ghouls first (Balefires leaving units)
=> move the Vhargulfs and wolf units to the flank where the enemy is weakest.
=> Bats will march block the other side to counter enemy flank forces here (maybe support with some wolves).


Basically, the question is: will this work?

testosteronicon
11-12-2008, 22:54
Forgot to tell: this is a 2250 points list

Power dice: 9 (+ 3x bound spells)
Dispel Dice: 6 (+ 2x balefire, +2 to all dispel attempts)

Reinnon
12-12-2008, 11:39
I run a very similar list, and yes... it most certainly does work.

However, i would recommend some changes:

1) Dispel Scrolls, the double balefire and skull staff is already pretty reliable anti magic. I don't think you need the staff of sorcery and there will always be a time when someone casts flames of the pheonix on a 15. I would replace the staff of sorcery with 2 scrolls just for the insurence.

2) What spells are you running on the necromancers? I find invocation and VHDM are vital spells to choose.

3) Wight King: Very expensive and forces your army to huddle around the vampire lord for marching. The drakenhoff banner is brutal, but i feel that ghoul based armies work much better with a second vampire BSB to add further marching.
Plus, with a vampire you get access to vampire powers including the amazing Walking Death power which basically get rounds the major weakness of ghouls: static combat res. I personally shy away from the banner of drakenhoff due to cost - i personally feel that items like the helm of commandment would help the army more. Ghouls are not difficult to raise back from the dead.

4) Core: i personally run 3 units of 20 ghouls and one unit of 25 in my 2250 point army, with no wolves. The problem with the wolves is that for the first turn you basically have to keep a varghulf near by so they can march, but i can see the use of the wolves so i'm loathe to suggest you get rid of them. I worry though that you don't have enough ghouls for an army of this size.

5) Special: I never liked fell bats, but that might be due to bad experience of playing wood elves.

6) Rare: You can't go wrong with 2 varghulfs, but have you considered other rare choices like wraiths? But the two varghulf combo is very solid, you can't really say its a bad choice.

In short: it looks good, you have all the basics to make a viable ghoul based army. The ghoula rmy works because of the fact it can get early game charges really easily, and you have all the elements that make this tactic possible. More then anything my comments are personal feelings on how i use my own ghoul based army, and no doubt the army as it currently stands will work.

Good luck!

testosteronicon
12-12-2008, 15:16
1) Really good Idea! I'll swap staff of sorcery for scrolls

2) I was planning on Vanhel's only. Is 15pts for a 4+ (one dice) IoN worth it?

3) Hmmm. The banner is really good. also really expensive. The thing is: I'm chronically afraid of cannonball shots at my general. My experience from terminators is that a 1 does show up too often. I think a BSB vampire would be great as you mention: Walking death + more march! And the additional PD and DD. But a 250-300pts char with only 2 wounds makes DE assassins happy as Squigs in a kindergarten....
I'll playtest both :)

4 + 5) More ghouls, less bats! Affirmative!

6) :D


Thanks a lot!

lord opium
12-12-2008, 19:48
Why not give you're lord fobidden lore and take lore of beasts. He still gets ion and all the spells from the lore of beasts, which means he gets Bear's anger which will make him into the strigoi vamp to match you're theme. str7 with 7 attacks at toughness 6 ;) just a suggestion.

good luck

Neckutter
13-12-2008, 08:42
i run something similar. however i dont think your using ghoulkin to the maximum effect.

first off, i think VC NEED 4 magic using characters. secondly i suggest 3 units of 20 ghouls instead of units of 16. there is no need for cavalry in the ghoulkin force, since you should be charging a shooting army in your second turn(with vanhel's or book of arkhan)

my army which usually does extremely well unless it fights chaos daemons:
Lord, 4+ stupid ward, 3 power stones, biting blade. ghoulkin, lvl 4 wizard, knows all the necro spells.

3 vamps: all summon ghouls, all level 2 wizards, 1 dispel scroll on one of them, one with the book of arkahn

3 units of 19 ghouls, champions
23 grave guard, full comm, hatred banner, GWs
2 corpse carts(my whole army usually strikes first. yay)
4 wraiths, 1 banshee

i think that totals 2244 points or something. ive tried it, and i absolutly love it. it looks good on the battlefield too. ive always received high marks for comp in tourneys, and people dont think its a cheesy list... since i dont bring blood knights.

Reinnon
13-12-2008, 16:41
i would always advise necromancers on corpse carts over pure casting vampires - the corpse carts are fantastic piece of kits, and in a ghoul based army it becomes very important to have necromancers because they can make use of the ghoulkin move. A corpse cart thats 8 inches away from the ghouls is a wasted corpse cart, and the ASF is always handy. Plus: corpse carts are actually quite vicious in close combat with the helm of commandment, and with a necromancer you can declare and accept challenges!

I tend to go invocation and VDM just for emergancies - for example if your vampire fails to cast (i've had entire magic phases of ones and twos, not nice), or is simply too far away, or simply has other things to cast (like raise dead to block off fleeing enemies) the extra invocation on a 4+ can be really handy.

madival
13-12-2008, 18:24
i run something similar. however i dont think your using ghoulkin to the maximum effect.

first off, i think VC NEED 4 magic using characters. secondly i suggest 3 units of 20 ghouls instead of units of 16. there is no need for cavalry in the ghoulkin force, since you should be charging a shooting army in your second turn(with vanhel's or book of arkhan)

my army which usually does extremely well unless it fights chaos daemons:
Lord, 4+ stupid ward, 3 power stones, biting blade. ghoulkin, lvl 4 wizard, knows all the necro spells.

3 vamps: all summon ghouls, all level 2 wizards, 1 dispel scroll on one of them, one with the book of arkahn

3 units of 19 ghouls, champions
23 grave guard, full comm, hatred banner, GWs
2 corpse carts(my whole army usually strikes first. yay)
4 wraiths, 1 banshee

i think that totals 2244 points or something. ive tried it, and i absolutly love it. it looks good on the battlefield too. ive always received high marks for comp in tourneys, and people dont think its a cheesy list... since i dont bring blood knights.
ii dont think you need 4 pure magic charecters. i always run at least 3.if i am worried about any single target man size model on the board that might try and kill my vamp lord, i always take the 150 point BSB can opener charecter (wight king with nightshroud and sword of kings in hatred grp) However, if my lord is fighty, i take 3 magic charecters(and i make sure that my lord can do summon core and usually give him book of akrhan dread lance redfury walking dead dreadknight with blood knights.
PS how are blood knights cheesy? You look at every single WOC list from 500-2250 they all have knights(saw a 1500 point list with 3 knight units)

Death Korp
13-12-2008, 18:48
You look at every single WOC list from 500-2250 they all have knights(saw a 1500 point list with 3 knight units)

Because they look awesome! :D

DK

madival
13-12-2008, 18:56
Because they look awesome! :D

DK

but to state something is cheesy for a single unit. every army i have ever tried to field was cheesy then :P

Neckutter
13-12-2008, 19:17
blood knights win you game single handedly. ive played against them, and they are rock hard for their 400pts. (5 knights, full comm, shooty ward banner)

and other people that have played against VC expect blood knights, and when they dont see them, it gives them pause. when they ask me why i dont bring them, i like to say "they are cheesy" and usually my opponent agrees. therefore my army, with its 35% in core is suddenly "uncheesy" and good comp scores.

and chaos knights arent even close to being on par with blood knights. then again blood knights are more expensive, in money and points. my point was that it is just keeping your options open for beating your opponent badly in tournament games, and they cant take revenge with the ole sportsmanship or comp scores.

theunwantedbeing
13-12-2008, 19:30
1. Extra hand weapon do nothing while mounted.
2. The wight king looks rather out of place in that list...he doesnt seemm to be able to go anywhere overly helpful.
3. Your ghoul unit's are all tiny, much too small really...most armies have enough firepower to concentrate on and kill 1 of your ghoul units and the character it contains.
4. Units of 10 dire wolves are unnessecary when you can have 2 units of 5 instead.

More bats, more ghouls, you could easily drop the wight king completely just to free up the points.

Lord Dan
13-12-2008, 19:40
blood knights win you game single handedly.
I don't like this stereotype. In the right hands, this unit is overwhelmingly powerful. However the idea that they win game "single handedly" is way off. You need support from other units, and very careful manouvering. Only a foolish opponent will simply let you charge the front of one of their units for you to chop to pieces.

In the last tournament I played in my opponent's unit of BK had the vamp with the blood drinker and the ward save banner. I baited them with some peasants and flank charged them with a fully upgraded unit of KoTR. I'm no tactical genius, and I generally consider myself an average player. And yet I, despite my ineptitude, was able to wipe out a 700 point unit in one turn without skipping a beat. So imagine what a more capable player could do.

You're right, BK are not to be underestimated. However I think overestimating them is an equally troublesome folly.