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ORKY ARD BOYZ
12-12-2008, 09:24
Hello

I was wondering why Black Guard were considered to be a better unit than Executioners. While Black Guard may have immune to Psychology and be stubborn they still only have heavy armour and T3, so while the unit itself may stick around, they still die like elves. "Warrior elite" allows them to reroll hits in subsequent combat which is good but they still have eternal hatred so can be baited like all other dark elf units.

Executioners on the other hand, strike much harder than Black Guard, with S 6 and killing blow, while Black Guard hit at S 4.

If one unit can strike much harder against armoured units, while the other can provide a solid unit which doesn't hit particularly hard, why bother with Black Guard?

DeathlessDraich
12-12-2008, 09:51
S6 is certainly better than S4 but Black Guard have 2 more strong points, in addition to Stubborn and ItP: access to a good magic standard, higher I

ASF from Hag Gref std, 2A, re-roll missed hits works out better against T3 and T4 units (even 2+ save knights) and especially against Swordmasters, than Executioners.

I have used Executioners in MSU DE and I imagine they would be even better with a Cauldron but I've yet to try that.

Rodman49
12-12-2008, 09:58
Anything with ItP and Stubborn is incredible. Flat out. DD hit all the other main points.

Draconian77
12-12-2008, 10:14
I would certainly put it the other way around, why take an elite unit with half the amount of attacks, inferior accuracy, liability to fleeing pre-combat and far less chance of victory if charged?

As far as the competitive players in my group can see there is really no point in Executioners as they stand. They needed something extra to compete with the BG.

trydragon
12-12-2008, 10:29
Lets put it this way I fear Charging my Chaos Knights in to BG with there ASF banner and there SC in the ranks I usally lose 2 or more knights before i get to hit I also can't think of a time when i actaly won with out hitting them in the flanks. >.<

Executioners on the other hand I can deal with easy on an avarge dice roll and maybe only lose one Knight in return if they got anything to hit back with.

Count Zero
12-12-2008, 17:57
I'd also add in the fact that BG can be joined by all character types, not just Hags and Assassins, which makes them more versatile. Bar Crone no lord lvl character may join both witches and Exec's which is a bit limiting. I think it could have been nice if there was a way to grant the khainite rule to other characters.

Also the BG champion has the option to take a 25 point magic item, which isnt bad, as the obvious options are the Crimson Death to give 3 ASF, Str6, WS5 rerolling attacks. The soulrender to give str 5 attcks at -3 AS, the Ring of Hotek, Fear for 1 turn or +1Magic Res.
Just a little boost, but it all helps. The CD is my fav (its its not on a general - and if the general was in that unit then the Soulrender of a normal GW would eb as good), can really cause some pain.

Dooks Dizzo
12-12-2008, 18:44
I am a huge fan of Kouran myself, though no one else seems to be.

Making a unit Unbreakable is just awesome. He comes with the Crimson Death and his armor is king against T3. With ASF and his 3 S6 attacks he is a good bet against most 2 wound characters.

I also feel that BG actually benefit from the Cauldron of Blood more than Executioners. Giving them a 5+ ward is really handy and +1 attack can ruin someone's day. Killing blow with the number of attacks they get is also a real win.

You can really use these guys as a rock hard centre to your army. Worried about shooting? Screen them with a dirt cheap unit of Harpies. Worried about Combat res? Keep a unit of Shades or even a burly block of spearmen near by for flanking attacks.

They are truly one of the best units in the DE army.

W0lf
12-12-2008, 19:04
I dont see the point of executiners.

exes cant take a charge from anything.

Black gaurd with ASF banner (must have for them) are as good being charged as they are on the charge.

Killing blow is a gimmick for the most part on units and yes S6 is nice.

But your looking at S6 KB VS:

+1 attack
re-roll misses every round
immune to psy
stubourn
easy access to ASF

They really re superiour in every way.

Oh and theirs very little executioners can do that cold one knights dont do better.

sulla
12-12-2008, 19:26
The CD is my fav (its its not on a general - and if the general was in that unit then the Soulrender of a normal GW would eb as good), can really cause some pain.If you have a character in the unit, the soulrender is a better choice for him and the crimson death is the better choice for the champ. A master with the pendant and soulrender is all the character you ever need in a black guard unit. Plus, it lets the dreadlord swan around on his own without being locked in an infantry unit.

Elves All The Way
13-12-2008, 02:37
BG are betr on a number of reasons, 2attks ea able to re-roll failed rolls to hit, stubbon etc but i reckon it's because they're not khanite, while execs are. hags can only get items that benefit themselves (except witch brew and warcry) while masters have a range of goodies they can get to benefit the unit, ring of darkness for example. So while exces might be able to kill a few more guys in one round of combat, BG will stay alive and kill more in the long run