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Gen.Ruckus
12-12-2008, 22:19
I been playing brets for about 3 months now and I was wondering what's the best number to have for unit size, I usually run 6 kotr will full command, but would it be more efficent to up the unit size to 9? or maybe a number in between like 7-8?

lector#1
12-12-2008, 23:44
as i have noticed i havent played them much at all but, if you have a character in them then run 8 other wise run 9

Rodman49
13-12-2008, 01:49
9 Knights including characters is standard run of the mill. 12 is probably reasonable though in 3k games on a 6x4 board.

Surgency
13-12-2008, 02:04
My units are either 6 or 9 strong, depending on the size of the game. I actually keep them at 9 strong so when I add characters, they still get a full 7 knights to attack, plus character attacks. Some people have suggested that the unit depth at that point (200mm) is entirely to unweildy, but I've never had a problem with it.

Shas'o Zor'bas
13-12-2008, 10:01
7 knights to attack!? Can this happen? I think that only 5 can attack in the lance formation.

PARTYCHICORITA
13-12-2008, 10:23
In my personal experience a mix of 9 and 6 models strong lances get the best results for the brets.

Surgency
13-12-2008, 15:16
you get 7 attacks on the charge in a 9 strong lance formation

in the example below, you'll see who gets to attack (X) and who doesn't (*)

XXX
X*X
X*X

If since the third rank has models directly behind the first rank, they get to attack, as per the lance formation rules. Likewise, if you get a character or two (D)(P) in the unit, the attacks continue:

XPX
XDX
X*X
X X

the middle spot between the two flanks is always the empty spot when you only have 2 models for the last rank. While at this point the lance formation starts to become unweildy, and has enormous flanks, you have, at a minimum, 11 st5 attacks on the charge, plus the horses. The goal, of course, is to break a unit on the charge, so you can overrun and reposition to continue charges. A good/decent overrun will take your flanks out of the danger area, allowing you to avoid being charged in return.

Gen.Ruckus
14-12-2008, 03:12
More that 3 ranks (9 knights) have been unsucessful or it is an entirely too big of a unit and if the unit it charges doesn't break, its an almost given you are going to get flanked, so 9 total is the most I would go, 8 with a character

W0lf
14-12-2008, 10:27
ill throw in my 2 cents for the 9 or 8 with character comments.

Gen.Ruckus
15-12-2008, 05:19
I have a unit of 9 kotr, 9 grail knights and a unit of 7 kotr which I throw my bsb and a paladin in to make it 9 strong and it seems to be the best choice to have 9 strong units, 12 is too big and 6 seems to be too small

Helveticus
15-12-2008, 05:28
12 is workable, as if you win combat but the opponent doesn't break you can reform- but that also takes you out of the lance formation.. double edged sword there. Beyond that, if you can't break them with 9, chances are they're not going to break with 11 either. I'd stick to 6 and 9 lances. Also don't forget you can take a 5 strong lance, and just use a regular formation in a "detachement" type of plan- though without the automatic counter charge rules etc. for detachements.

Gethostar
15-12-2008, 16:29
My gf plays with Bretonnia and she takes 8 knights with 1 character... Where I play WHFB everyone takes that kind of units :P (Bret players of course)

Hospitaler
15-12-2008, 17:08
9 models in total (with or without characters) works best for mainline hammer, as it can suffer casualties, and still cause hurt.
6 for smaller flanking units, or you could take lots of 6 man for MSU, which can be scary having around 9 knight units in 2000pts :p

Glabro
18-12-2008, 02:33
Nine is good in general, but if you're facing dwarves and can't flank for some reason (as happened to me in a 2 vs 2 game due to terrain and my allied army "helping"), then 12.

However, I would suppose dwarves are the exception rather than the rule.

Guy Fawkes
18-12-2008, 03:19
I feel that making units too big can be tempting. I'd stick with smaller units and try to double charge things to maintain flexibility where I can. That being said, larger units have more hitting power at increased cost per attack. Overall, I wouldn't go over 9 and would be tempted to play many units at 6 or so to conserve points and allow for more units.

Boduddley
19-12-2008, 00:08
I never run knight units smaller than nine.

I prefer to run units of 12 - 15, depending on size of army.

And of course the army list has a lot of 0-1 restrictions, which does not exist in the other newer army cooks

:rolleyes:

Dragon Prince of Caledor
19-12-2008, 15:51
8 in lance formation with character. ( 9 w/o character) If you are merely using them as flankers 5 is ok. My bolt throwers and dragons love untis of 15 ;) Let that be a warning to ya! Depending on who you play of course.

Commissar Vaughn
19-12-2008, 18:30
I usually use 6 at most in a lance formation....

If I have more knights than that I dont even use the lance (column) becouse it looks retarded.

I much prefer the image of a huge wing of knights: several units formed 2 deep and side by side to make up to 30 knights in a file.

Gen.Ruckus
19-12-2008, 21:44
Where I play the other veteran players tell me to run units of 9 or 8 with a character, so that seems to be the best/most used size, what do you guys arm the paladins with? I want them to be rank and file killing more that character hunting, I would like to win with combat res.

DeathlessDraich
20-12-2008, 11:57
8 plus maximum number of characters = 7 units of 9 knights ; 5 units of 8 and 2 with 9.
More Errants than Realm
I prefer a Virtuous list - max use of Virtues - Confidence, Duty, etc.

Glabro
20-12-2008, 12:35
Units of 5 KotR for double charging (thanks to the lance's small frontage) indeed help.

Units of 12 are able to absorb a bit more damage and retain outnumbering, especially if you're not bringing magic defense. Of course it has the double edge of being really vulnerable to misdirection....but I haven't seen Slaanesh magic here yet.