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Lord Asuryan
13-12-2008, 22:04
OK, here goes...I'n not at all experienced with Skaven, so any advice would be welcomed. on a side note, I'm thinking of replacing the grey seer+screaming bell with thanquol and boneripper-good? not?

Grey Seer Eeksqueak of the shattered gorge: Tenebrous Cloak, Storm Daemon, Screaming bell
490

Warlock engineer Scritt Frazzlemaw: full kit sans pistol, scroll
110

Plague priest Squilch Bubovile: bands of power, additional hannd weapon
99

25 clanrat: standard, musician, ratling gun
200

25 clanrat: standard, musician, ratling gun
200

20 stormvermin: standard, musician, shields
195

20 slave
40

20 slave
40

5 night runner
25

5 night runner
25

giant rat pack
30

20 plague monk: full command, additional hand weapons, banner of burning hatred
210

5 gutter runner: tunneling team
75

5 jezzail
100

5 plague censor bearer
85

Warp Lightning Cannon
100

seems like it has good magic and OK numbers, but I think it's lacking something...probably fighting potential.

Shamfrit
14-12-2008, 14:15
OK, here goes...I'n not at all experienced with Skaven, so any advice would be welcomed. on a side note, I'm thinking of replacing the grey seer+screaming bell with thanquol and boneripper-good? not?

Welcome to the Under Empire :skull: My first comment is, do not use Thanquol, despite his over powering magic ability, and his Unbreakable Warpfire throwing friend, he's 560 points and a Lord/Hero slot before you factor in a Bell (which you will invariably need,) something that can be done 200 points cheaper with not much loss.


Grey Seer Eeksqueak of the shattered gorge: Tenebrous Cloak, Storm Daemon, Screaming bell
490


I have fallen from the magical side of Skaven because LD10 with re-rolls to Break Tests is so much better, but, the combination you have here is fantastical enough. Personally, I'd put the Storm Daemon on the Engineers, and switch the Cloak for the Warpstone Amulet, which is a 4+ ward against everything, so, should your Greyseer get into combat there's a better chance he'll survive against assassination attempts (like, say, STR7 Ogre attacks...:wtf:)


Warlock engineer Scritt Frazzlemaw: full kit sans pistol, scroll
110


With the points switch, convert this guy into a Storm Daemon/Scroll wielder, and you've got a solid enough Magic Phase, and the support from the bell should you get reasonable rolls.


Plague priest Squilch Bubovile: bands of power, additional hannd weapon
99

Fairly standard dude, I would seriously give him a Plague Censer over a hand weapon however, STR7 in the first turn of combat, without the need for Bands of Power (because your magic phase isn't that strong in order to get off the Bands often enough, although once can be all you need.)


25 clanrat: standard, musician, ratling gun
200

25 clanrat: standard, musician, ratling gun
200

Both fine, however, add a unit champion to protect your characters.


20 stormvermin: standard, musician, shields
195


25 with Warbanner still won't be enough without the support of a Battle Standard and Warlord, however, they're still a good unit. I think in this list however you're better off with a unit of 30, unless this unit is meant to be pushing the Screaming Bell, in which case, give them the Umbranner.


20 slave
40

20 slave
40

5 night runner
25

5 night runner
25

giant rat pack
30

20 plague monk: full command, additional hand weapons, banner of burning hatred
210

5 gutter runner: tunneling team
75

5 jezzail
100

5 plague censor bearer
85

Warp Lightning Cannon
100





The rest of the list falls into 'too generalise' category. You've got a good magic and numbers base, but you'll need something more, focus to shooting, combat or magic, not all of them. Drop the 5 jezzails to increase the Censer Bearers, or take an extra cannon for example.

Hope this helps!

GuyLeCheval
14-12-2008, 17:11
Well, your list looks fairly solid. But I've got some issues too:
- You can't use the storm deamon on your Grey Seer, it's an Skyre onnly magic item, so put it on your warlock engineer.
- Replace the stromvermin regiment with 2 other clanrat regiments. Stormvermin aren't worth their points.
- You go magic right? Try to replace the bands of power with the liber bubonicus. That gives you a dispel dice as well.
- Five jezzails won't do much. Instead increase the number of your censer bearers or something else.
- If you go with Tanquol, you'll loose your screaming bell and a lot of fun for an better magic phase + leadership. It's your choice.
- Normally Tenebrous cloak is better than warpstone amulet, but as your Grey seer is at the top of an screaming bell, his chances of getting in combat are bigger and you maybe want an wardsave in combat too as you can't skitterleap away.

Hope I've helped you.

orosales
14-12-2008, 21:48
I don't like the Jezzails and Tanquol is too much for the list.

Everything else is a real good choice,

Lord Asuryan
14-12-2008, 22:45
Okay, supposing I take your advice, replace the stormvermin with another clanrat unit (no weapon team) and add another slave unit, remove Jezails, take warpstone amulet, switch storm daemon, that leaves me with 150 points to play with. I'm considering a couple options:
1. assassin with either weeping blades or warpstone stars. if so, I can probably drop gutter runners
2. another warlock engineer. however, where I play, most people consider skaven cheesey, and engineers are a big part of that. so I'm reluctant.
3. another unit of plague monks.
4. a chieftan BSB
5. another ratling gun...but again, ratling spam is one of the problems. and WF throwers just don't seem very good...shorther ranged than ratlings, more expensive, worse misfire table. yick. but there doesn't really seem to be another way to make the army more 'shooty'

Any of these? or other suggestions

fubukii
15-12-2008, 00:20
- more locks
Dont take jezzails unless you use at least 8+
tunnel teams needed
More clanrat units needed
- more slave units needed
- monks are iffy
- drop storm vermin
- drop bell
- add another lock
- drop ratling guns ( too easy to kill they basically giving your enemy 120 free vps)
- give the seer the warpstone charm.
-drop the giant rat pack ( too easy to panic off the table) give slaves musicans
give plague priest a censer
add more censers

Rooze
15-12-2008, 09:36
I did a quick skim over all replies, so excuse me if I'm saying something already said.

- in 2000 points, I find a Grey Seer on Blee too point-heavy. You will end up with one unit tanikg up almost half your army points. Think on losing that unit in CC! Ouch!
- Instead I'd rather take only a Grey Seer on foot (still costly, but still good), or no grey seer, and go for the cheaper choice with better Ld - the Lord!
- I ALWAYS take 2 Engineers, fully equipped, one with at least a Storm Daemon and perhaps a scroll, most of the time the other one with two more scrolls.
- Storm Vermin can be VERY DEVASTATING: unit 25+, Give them a Warbanner, Add your Lord for Ld (in the back), and add a BSB with Banner of Fear (costly, but soooo effective), also in the back. You start off with Combat resolution +7, and you'd probably outnumber + Fear is automatic test for Insane Courage. With handweapon + Shield those pesky Vermin even have an remarkable 3+ armour save in CC. You may not get any kills, but at least your survivability rate is high!
- I prefer 3 units of 20 clanrats above 2 units of 25+. for starters, you get to take one extra weapon team. Next, each unit will be easier to give up as cannonfodder, but you must make sure to make that sacrifice to good use!!!
And more units can give you a tactical advantage during set-up!
- I find that the Cannon is NOT worth it's points. Agreed, you are capable of destroying vast units of heavy cav etc, but in the end, during let's say a tournament, it hardly does sometyhing impressive.
- Try giving your monks the Banner of Burning hatred! Use with caution though!
- Either take AT LEAST 10 Jezzails, or NOT AT ALL. These guys are costly, easy to scare, weak in CC, and most of the time do squat! So make sure that what u aim for dies, and prepare for the fact that they probably get off 2.4 shots per game, and then flee, are dead or are too few to matter. I hardly take them.
- Giant rats ARE good, despite what others say. true, they scare easily, but no less than your ordinary troops, since they also get to use ranks in Ld. Take units of 3 packs for 21 models at 90 points, and thus have 3 ranks! They are fast and cheap, and are basically Clanrats without armour!
- Gutter Runners S**CK. They may be good versus warmachines and the like, but in reality, they end up being pretty useless, or dead too quick. Make them tunnellers and you are wasting a LOT of points.

Have fun experimenting though, 'cause Skaven is one of the most versatile armies out there!

Shamfrit
15-12-2008, 13:44
You'd be surprised, a Warlord with a Great Weapon, The Warpstone Amulet and Skavenbrew in that Stormvermin can be very powerful.

And your Warlord is then more than able to charge Knights on his own should he get Frenzy/Hatred.

fubukii
15-12-2008, 17:29
I did a quick skim over all replies, so excuse me if I'm saying something already said.

- in 2000 points, I find a Grey Seer on Blee too point-heavy. You will end up with one unit tanikg up almost half your army points. Think on losing that unit in CC! Ouch!
- Instead I'd rather take only a Grey Seer on foot (still costly, but still good), or no grey seer, and go for the cheaper choice with better Ld - the Lord!
- I ALWAYS take 2 Engineers, fully equipped, one with at least a Storm Daemon and perhaps a scroll, most of the time the other one with two more scrolls.
- Storm Vermin can be VERY DEVASTATING: unit 25+, Give them a Warbanner, Add your Lord for Ld (in the back), and add a BSB with Banner of Fear (costly, but soooo effective), also in the back. You start off with Combat resolution +7, and you'd probably outnumber + Fear is automatic test for Insane Courage. With handweapon + Shield those pesky Vermin even have an remarkable 3+ armour save in CC. You may not get any kills, but at least your survivability rate is high!
- I prefer 3 units of 20 clanrats above 2 units of 25+. for starters, you get to take one extra weapon team. Next, each unit will be easier to give up as cannonfodder, but you must make sure to make that sacrifice to good use!!!
And more units can give you a tactical advantage during set-up!
- I find that the Cannon is NOT worth it's points. Agreed, you are capable of destroying vast units of heavy cav etc, but in the end, during let's say a tournament, it hardly does sometyhing impressive.
- Try giving your monks the Banner of Burning hatred! Use with caution though!
- Either take AT LEAST 10 Jezzails, or NOT AT ALL. These guys are costly, easy to scare, weak in CC, and most of the time do squat! So make sure that what u aim for dies, and prepare for the fact that they probably get off 2.4 shots per game, and then flee, are dead or are too few to matter. I hardly take them.
- Giant rats ARE good, despite what others say. true, they scare easily, but no less than your ordinary troops, since they also get to use ranks in Ld. Take units of 3 packs for 21 models at 90 points, and thus have 3 ranks! They are fast and cheap, and are basically Clanrats without armour!
- Gutter Runners S**CK. They may be good versus warmachines and the like, but in reality, they end up being pretty useless, or dead too quick. Make them tunnellers and you are wasting a LOT of points.

Have fun experimenting though, 'cause Skaven is one of the most versatile armies out there!


i disagree with alot of your ideas

- seer on foot is good, bell makes unit to many vps.
- 2 locks is a good suggestion
- storm vermin are almost never ever worth thier points, you can get a clanrat and 2 slaves for the same cost who do it better. Yes a 3+ save and +7 cr is good but with the powerouse units around in the game (chaos knights for example) they will get wrecked regardless. they are too many points to justify using.
- Never take units of 20 ranked skaven models. Always aim for 21-25 for slaves and 25-30 for clanrats. the strength of the skaven army is SIN, and Static cr once your ranks go you wont win fights and you will panic extremely easy. Weapon teams are kinda ifffy in 7th edition they are insanely easy to kill (1 wound t3) and cost 60 pts each. 1 archer unit can kill every weapon team on the table before they can even shoot.
- the wlc is great not only is it great to fire into combat since you dont randomize hits, it can also shoot through terrain and is one of the only good ways for skaven to deal wwith large creatures, and other multiple wound models (ogres chariots etc) i cant count how many games i won because of my WLCs
- giant rats are ok, scare a bit to easily and die super easy. They are basically clanrats without armor. yes they get mv 6 which is nice but not needed.
-gutter runners with tunnel are probably the best special choice in the army. they can kill warmachines as you stated above, they can also be used to kill enemy mages, enemy missle units, march blocking, Killing fast cav, other skirmishers, anything with a poor save basically. and 85 pts for a team that can kill a 180 pt mage or a warmachine is totally worth it

Lord Asuryan
15-12-2008, 21:04
Ok, new list:

Grey seer Eeksqueak of the shattered Gorge
Warpstone Amulet
Screaming Bell
460

Warplock engineer Scritt Frazzlemaw
Storm Daemon
Scroll
Full Kit sans pistol
135

PLague Priest Squilch Bubovile
Bands of Power
Extra hand weapon
99

25 clanrat: standard, musician, ratling gun
200

25 clanrat: standard, musician, ratling gun
200

25 clanrat: standard, musician
140

21 slave
42

21 slave
42

21 slave
42

10 night runner:additional hand weapons
70

5 night runner
25

3x2 poison wind globadier
60

20 plague monk:full command, banner of burning hatred, additional h/w
210

5 gutter runner: tunnelling team, poison hand weapons
85

Assassin: Weeping Blades/warpstone stars depending on enemy
150/130

Warp lightning cannon
100

5 plague censor bearers

fubukii
15-12-2008, 21:49
you really really do not want to take a plaguepriest without a plaguecenser its the best weapon option for him.

Lord Asuryan
15-12-2008, 21:55
But...he'll be in the clanrats, and he'll kill 3 or so every round!

Shamfrit
15-12-2008, 22:04
Put him in the Plague Monks then :skull:

stripsteak
15-12-2008, 22:04
you can run the plague preist with the plague monks, he'll benefit from the hatred banner, and he's frenzied already.

if you run him with the clanrats you need to make sure to declare charges ith the unit just to make sure he doesn't go frnezy running out of it.


if you are running him the plague monk unit he censor isn't a bad choice. i still prefer just a flail on him anyway. but thats mostly for cost wise, i'd rather have 12ish points to spend elsewhere.

fubukii
15-12-2008, 22:38
12 pts for the chance to kill those evil knights charging my plaguemonk unit? sounds good to me

W0lf
15-12-2008, 23:53
needs another seer.

and id highly suggest needing ether 8+ jezzails or a second cannon.

Lord Asuryan
16-12-2008, 14:44
okay, so anything else, pertaining more to my army than general skavening advice?

fubukii
16-12-2008, 18:33
drop the 10 man unit of night runners to 5 men with no upgrades they are best as a redirecting unit not a fighting unit

redirect and and flank thats how skaven win games remember it well