PDA

View Full Version : Moving a Titan around from planet to planet



Pooky
15-12-2008, 01:36
I was wondering, if Titans are so massive and are so intricate, how does the Mechanicum move a Titan from, say, Mars to another planet (let's call the destination planet "Jupiter")? I thought of the following possibilites:

1) The Imperium and Mars tech is so awesome they just ship the Titan whole to Jupiter (and then rip open the box like a kid on Christmas day when the Titan arrives) :D
2) The Titan is shipped in parts over to Jupiter to a Mechanicus building errected souly to construct the Titan (kind of like an Ikea kit furniture)
3) The Titans parts are forged from Jupiter raw materials (i.e. the metals are smelted from the ores of Jupiter, the plastics are made from the oils found on Jupiter, etc) and only the blue prints/ plans are brought from Mars to the new planet.

So, are any of these correct? Or is it something else? Also, any fluff references in novels would be nice.

Triszin The Wrath God
15-12-2008, 01:42
its simple they have massive ships that are able to hold the titans whole in the "docking bays". mainly because taking apart a titan and shipping to a war torn planet isnt all that smart becuase of the amount of time that it would take to get the darned thing up and running.

chaos0xomega
15-12-2008, 01:42
Well, before anything else, I'd like to point out that Jupiter doesn't have a surface. It's a gas giant. There is a core, yes, but it's mostly atmo.

Anyway. Letter A (except they don't box them). In Storm of Iron IIRC, there is a passage in which they describe a titan being unloaded from a ship by crane (also, keep in mind that titans are large, but spaceships are much much larger).

As for b and c, I could see B occuring in some (rare instances) although that would probably anger the titans machinespirit or somesuch and would be considered sacrilege against hte machine god, and c... well, it takes centuries to build just one titan, I somehow don't see that happening in theater. I could also see issues arrising over the fact that it wasn't a forgeworld and it is therefore not a holy-enough place to build it on...

Kandarin
15-12-2008, 01:43
The Titan Legions have their own transport fleets, with drop vehicles designed for deploying Titans.

MrBigMr
15-12-2008, 01:44
There are these things called space ships, you see...

Packed and moved. Just packed and moved. For one, in Storm of Irong the Iron Warriors bring Titans in a large Hive Ship. Also, I believe there was a model for a Titan drop pod in Epic, though I don't know it it was ever sold.

Inquisitor Engel
15-12-2008, 02:49
I always imagine the logistics behind things like the Titan-sized drop pods (2.5m marine 6m drop pod-ish, means a 40m Imperator requires 120m drop pod, size discussions aside, even if they're only slightly larger than the titan itself, its still huge)

How much heat resistant material is needed for the creation of that pod? How many resources required to get something of that size back into orbit again?

I imagine entire planets and moons stripped of their heat resistant materials for the needs of Titan legions, leaving behind barren, stripped worlds in their wake.

chaos0xomega
15-12-2008, 03:00
Or the ship enters atmo and unloads it like a dropship....

Inquisitor Engel
15-12-2008, 03:23
Or the ship enters atmo and unloads it like a dropship....

Except 'False Gods' specifically states that Dies Irae is transported down in a drop pod, with retro-burners and glowing hot metal bottom and all.

El_Machinae
15-12-2008, 04:08
The drop-pod has to be disposable. In fact, if they're made in orbital factories, drop pods might never feel significant gravity until the end of their lives.

Pooky
15-12-2008, 05:31
Ok, so they are dropped into the heat of battle whole. Got it.

But with the "not building it on an alien/ unholy/ NOT Mars" planet, I just guessed the Tech adepts would do this since it would be waste of resources to go to a foreign planet, strip it of its resources, ship the resources to Mars to be smelted/ refined/ made useable then build the Titan then ship the Titan out to another planet. I did think it was a wasteful process, but then, it is the Imperium we are talking about :D

Thanks for the help.

Warforger
15-12-2008, 05:35
I wondered what the Titan drop pod is for use now, yes it transports something that can squish a regiment, but what use is the drop pod after it landed?

olmsted
15-12-2008, 05:37
Except 'False Gods' specifically states that Dies Irae is transported down in a drop pod, with retro-burners and glowing hot metal bottom and all.

and in storm of iron its deployed from a corrupted tyranid hive ship.

Raellos
15-12-2008, 05:48
IIRC in the Horus Heresy WD article the Chaos forces used dropships to carry Titans to Lion's Gate spaceport.

Avaron
15-12-2008, 06:26
Whatever is left over from the drop could easily be used to build bunkers for the guard, it could be used as a level landing surface for drop ships and they might be somewhat recoverable given enough time...atleast they could strip parts of the engins and guidance systems to use later.

Mojaco
15-12-2008, 06:50
Titanicus goes in great detail when it comes to landing a legio. The ships are so massive and the forces so great that the stratosphere and climate is being wrecked as they unload.

olmsted
15-12-2008, 15:32
I wondered what the Titan drop pod is for use now, yes it transports something that can squish a regiment, but what use is the drop pod after it landed?

why not just use empty drop pods as massive ordance? im sure it would take out a bunch of enemy soldiers

Alessander
15-12-2008, 15:58
Transported from world to world in the holds of regular ships. Since the ships in 40K can be a few kilometers long, there's no problem with this.

the titans machine spirits don't like being cooped up in such small spaces, though, and the god-machines get restless. See the second "Titan" graphic novel (Viv... something) for details.

In storm of Iron, the iron warriros use a captured tyranid ship that was infected with the obliterator virus (read: chaos tyranid) to unload the titans with huge semi-organic tendrils.

Killgore
15-12-2008, 16:39
I would not take the Iron Warrors Hive ship transport example as the norm...


Read Titanicus for a good description of massive cargo ships delivering the titans

HH books for information about titan drop pods

and somewhere else in a BL book theres a description about the preparation required for getting titans spacebound again

Inquisitor Engel
15-12-2008, 16:51
I would not take the Iron Warrors Hive ship transport example as the norm...

Precisely. The Imperium certainly doesn't have any.


and somewhere else in a BL book theres a description about the preparation required for getting titans spacebound again

'False Gods' has a quick description of the process when Torgaddon, Marr and Loken return to the ship to find whatever wounded Horus. It's more flavour than specifics though.

PondaNagura
15-12-2008, 16:51
not every titan is built specifically in Mars, Pooky. true a majority of the older legios are based on Mars, but there are the forge worlds scattered throughout the Imperium that contribute to the production, maintenance, and base of operations for the forces of the Mechincus and it's allies.

olmsted
15-12-2008, 18:28
I would not take the Iron Warrors Hive ship transport example as the norm...


neither would i except that in that book the iron warriors brought the deis irae with them.

pinegulf
16-12-2008, 08:15
Education spoils all the fun... I wonder how do they doploy something that heavy on a planet? with even minimal velocity the whole thing would just sink into the soil. (Not to mention the huge crater it would leave.)

Another thing... How it keeps above ground? Leg is ~10m diameter so pressure would be enormous.

Apologist
16-12-2008, 11:50
Education spoils all the fun... I wonder how do they doploy something that heavy on a planet? with even minimal velocity the whole thing would just sink into the soil. (Not to mention the huge crater it would leave.)

P'raps designed so that it resembles a box with an enormous spike underneath? The spike could operate as a foundation/stabiliser for the skyscraper-sized pod.

...and the crater would be an advantage the titan is instantly dug in and the vulnerable lower parts are protected. Since it's a walker, it'd be easy enough to climb out (or the pod could have a ramp/enormous cannon to knock a hole in the crater side).

Essentially, with a little imagination, the drop-pod becomes an instant fortress, complete with ring wall and entrance, as opposed to simply an enormous frame.


Another thing... How it keeps above ground? Leg is ~10m diameter so pressure would be enormous.
Titans are built as demi-gods, with half-understood technology.
Here are some (purely speculative) technologies that could ameliorate the problem:
1) Suspensor/jet/exhaust technology offsets the load.
2) The feet we see are simply the top of a huge rubble claw that contains massive amounts of drills, pistons and other technologies that force into hard ground.
3) Soft ground is partly countered by the deployment of gels, gasses and instant-set concretes that provide a surer footing.

Escaflowne_Z
16-12-2008, 12:16
The best answer of them all...HANDWAVIUM! That said, titans are still some of the coolest things in 40k, and have appearances in some very good novels that have been previously mentioned. Titanicus and the HH novel Mechanicum both heavily feature Titans.

Allen
16-12-2008, 12:32
I always imagine the logistics behind things like the Titan-sized drop pods (2.5m marine 6m drop pod-ish, means a 40m Imperator requires 120m drop pod, size discussions aside, even if they're only slightly larger than the titan itself, its still huge)

How much heat resistant material is needed for the creation of that pod? How many resources required to get something of that size back into orbit again?

I imagine entire planets and moons stripped of their heat resistant materials for the needs of Titan legions, leaving behind barren, stripped worlds in their wake.


In one of the HH books (I think the one where Horus was wounded by Temba) there's the description of the massive cargo ships used to deploy Titans planetside. Basically they're high-tech armoured boxes full of inertial dampeners and other suitabely cool-named 40K technobabble you can remember...the Imperium hurl them towards the planet, the box lands and opens. The Titan walk outside and start the dakka-feast.

The real problem is packing up the Titan after the battle(s), and lifting the cargo ships back in orbit. The book states that it's a hell of work, very time-consuming and insanely costly both in resources and manpower.

EDIT:



I wonder how do they doploy something that heavy on a planet? with even minimal velocity the whole thing would just sink into the soil. (Not to mention the huge crater it would leave.)

The HH book describes the titan carriers slowing their landing manoeuvre with powerful engines. The carriers basically evaporated large parts of the marshes that covered the designated landing zones in the process.

Goruax
16-12-2008, 12:47
Titanicus [...] heavily feature[s] Titans.

Who'd've thought it eh? ;)

Cool_Mint
16-12-2008, 20:04
In reality it would be much cheaper to build a new Titan than to ship it to another solar system not only because of the amount of work needed to launch the Titan from the surface of a Planet (presumably in parts) into orbit but also because the transport vessel would require a convoy of fighting ships to protect it since it would be a prime target - it would also be vulnerable to sabotage.

Killgore
16-12-2008, 20:08
In reality it would be much cheaper to build a new Titan than to ship it to another solar system not only because of the amount of work needed to launch the Titan from the surface of a Planet (presumably in parts) into orbit but also because the transport vessel would require a convoy of fighting ships to protect it since it would be a prime target - it would also be vulnerable to sabotage.

depends how many years you want to spend before its available for battle?

think of the hardest lego set imaginable then say a lengthly 100 word prayer whilst assembling each block


id rather spend a few more resources getting a titan to a planet in one peice then send it walking into battle after spending a day arriving and getting it off the plane.

Cool_Mint
16-12-2008, 20:21
depends how many years you want to spend before its available for battle?

think of the hardest lego set imaginable then say a lengthly 100 word prayer whilst assembling each block


id rather spend a few more resources getting a titan to a planet in one peice then send it walking into battle after spending a day arriving and getting it off the plane.

In 40K things take forever to build but speaking non-fictionally a Planet with an industrial base would probably be able to knock-out a dozen Titans over the course of a couple of months and if they had any sense they would have built dozens if not hundreds of Titans long before the Planet came under attack.

Toramino
16-12-2008, 21:31
As has been stated before Titans are deployed and retrieved whole in big metal boxes that have thrusters and retro jets ect ect

read false gods

Noserenda
16-12-2008, 22:42
In 40K things take forever to build but speaking non-fictionally a Planet with an industrial base would probably be able to knock-out a dozen Titans over the course of a couple of months and if they had any sense they would have built dozens if not hundreds of Titans long before the Planet came under attack.

Speaking non-fictionally Titans are a useless weapon of war.. But this is 40k! Titans are hideously hard to create and the newer ones arent as good as their ancient peers. Add the fact that the AM barely shares info with itself...

Oh and the fact that cost is irrelevant :chrome:

Clockwork-Knight
17-12-2008, 00:35
Thank God for the Wh40k-universe being powered by the rule of cool, instead of the rule of real physics. :D

izandral
17-12-2008, 01:09
a further note to building it on site , you have to hope all the material are actually available on the planet , i'm pretty sure there's a lot of rare material in huge quantities involved in their construction , so you need to basically build the infrastructure to receive the material (and create the apropriate trade route) then refine it in whatever way it needs to be and the you can start to build it.

So Basically you would need the resources of an acceptably large country solely dedicated to building one titan

definitely better to build and ship them

ChaplainVarnus
21-12-2008, 17:58
The empty drop pods are turned into Hive Cities. (Or the orks find them and melt them into stompaz or subs:D)

MrBigMr
21-12-2008, 18:45
I can imagine that.
*Imagines a big box with little stubby feet and more guns than a battleship.*

Herman the Heathen
21-12-2008, 19:16
hey, titans aren't THAT big.

A warlord titian is... what? 40 meters tall? that's kinda big for something walking on a planet.

But a capital ship is 10+ km in length and 1.5+ km in heith so fitting a titan inside wouldn't be that big of a deal.

As being mentioned earlier, just a VERY big drop pod is what's needed to get it to the surface of a planet, prolly will be a tad bit more difficult to get it off planet, but hey this is 40K!!!

heretics bane
21-12-2008, 20:12
In 40K things take forever to build but speaking non-fictionally a Planet with an industrial base would probably be able to knock-out a dozen Titans over the course of a couple of months and if they had any sense they would have built dozens if not hundreds of Titans long before the Planet came under attack.

Erm i wouldnt think so...

It takes years to build naval ships so creating a massive titan and fitting it out with all the plasma generators,gun turrets etc. would take a whole lot longer

Clockwork-Knight
22-12-2008, 00:08
And do not forget the venerable machine spirit. Without an experienced and pure machine spirit that will obey and serve the Mechanicus, the titan is worthless. A corrupted machine spirit may turn the pilots and the crew to Chaos, or go berserk.

Nexus Trimean
29-09-2010, 06:03
A semi Good book to read is Dark adeptus, Where you can see that Titans are built on other planets, and the massive amount of resources it takes to make them. They built roughly 200 in 1000 years using An Entire plants worth of resources, and the STC (or at least a part of it) for Titans.

They are immensely complex machines, recovering a titan is far easier than building new. We have ships that deploy entire guard regiments in one go, how hard would it be to modify one to let a titan walk up the ramp.

grotburna
29-09-2010, 06:44
Hope this doesn't stray too far from the OP, but:
Are there any rules or limitations on teleporting ? Like energy-effficiency-issues, importance of locator beacons and stuff ? Sure, a DS-mishap would ruin the war, but it would bypass issues like atmospheric entry, drop height, ikea...

madd0ct0r
29-09-2010, 06:50
Education spoils all the fun... I wonder how do they doploy something that heavy on a planet? with even minimal velocity the whole thing would just sink into the soil. (Not to mention the huge crater it would leave.)

Another thing... How it keeps above ground? Leg is ~10m diameter so pressure would be enormous.


Head.desk. Head.desk.

Everytime Titans are mentioned that second point is made. It's false.

I've run the structual bearing calc's multiple times now. A titan WILL leave footprints, it will compress and displace soil, but only about 25cm in non-marsh enviroment.

Soil get's stronger as you compress it. Modern Building foundations are considered to have failed if the building sinks 25mm in 120 years. Less if it has a glass frontage. A titan is a bit more robust and can afford to leave footprints.

Think of the beach. Sure in the top, fluffy sand your feet 'sink' a good way. Dig down about 10cm. Suddenly you're leaving much smaller footprints. Dig down further till water is coming in. You will 'sink' here, but only by standing very still and wiggling. Titans do neither.

The titan droppod would (probably) not compress the soil much further. It is a much larger base area which introuces some useful compund effects. In the long term it may suffer subsidence, but frankly the war about it is more likely to be a problem.

AndrewGPaul
29-09-2010, 07:25
Head.desk. Head.desk.

Everytime Titans are mentioned that second point is made. It's false.

I've run the structual bearing calc's multiple times now. A titan WILL leave footprints, it will compress and displace soil, but only about 25cm in non-marsh enviroment.

Fancy summarising? What sort of mass are you assuming, and what sort of dynamic loads?

madd0ct0r
29-09-2010, 09:13
me and my big mouth.

I'll go see if i can find the thread now.

EDIT: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3282854&highlight=titan+bearing+capacity+soil#post3282854

post 267.

Rememer, this is short term loading only, so for clays anything below the water table can redistribute the load easily. Sands have a much higher capacity to start with


EDIT2: It's also for a warhound, which is actually the most extreme case. Reavers and Warlords have proportionally much great 'foot area' then a toe-running warhound

Polaria
29-09-2010, 11:21
Considering the fact that Imperial space ships are several kilomteres long transporting a few Titans should not be an issue.

Brother of the Hydra
29-09-2010, 11:51
Hope this doesn't stray too far from the OP, but:
Are there any rules or limitations on teleporting ? Like energy-effficiency-issues, importance of locator beacons and stuff ? Sure, a DS-mishap would ruin the war, but it would bypass issues like atmospheric entry, drop height, ikea...

I do not think they have tried it ever... I am open to correction however!

Teleportation devices are even less understood than the Titians themselves.. and if say a Terminator squad are off course by a few yard its not going to matter that much... but a Titian.... :eek: Deploying via x-large drop pod is safer and more accurate.

I would imagine the Titan Drop Pods contain everything needed to get them into space again, one set of rockets to do both jobs.

kng229
29-09-2010, 12:35
Education spoils all the fun... I wonder how do they doploy something that heavy on a planet? with even minimal velocity the whole thing would just sink into the soil. (Not to mention the huge crater it would leave.)

Another thing... How it keeps above ground? Leg is ~10m diameter so pressure would be enormous.

I have this same problem when I watch Transformers. You'd think that something so big and made of metal would crack asphalt, completely screw up your landscaping, and knock a house over if it leaned against it. But that magically doesn't happen.

MagosHereticus
29-09-2010, 15:06
Considering the fact that Imperial space ships are several kilomteres long transporting a few Titans should not be an issue.

and despite what some people believe, escort (bfg) sized vessels can land on a planet without too much trouble

El_Machinae
29-09-2010, 17:49
You know, if the drop pods have 'technobabble' components, then those things themselves would probably be terribly expensive to make. They sound like they're much more than a can with ablative armor and retro-rockets.

Getting a titan off the surface of a planet would be hellishly expensive, but if 40k allows the landing of 'regular' space vessels, and if they allow this landing for the purpose of loading/offload, then boosting a titan wouldn't be significantly different.

grotburna
29-09-2010, 20:04
I still think that orbital drops are extremely rare.

- In Storm of Iron, the titans could've been warped in, but still they transported them by ship. Reason: a LandingZone is needed.
- Why do most Chaos forces use some cult: a Landing Zone.
- Why do Gargants come into play later on: a landing zone.
- In the taros campaign, even warhounds are brought in only late in the conflict. 40K just wouldn't be fun, if all stops were pulled from the start...

Besides, only Orks got it right: Drop Rokks and squish'em :-)

When will Forgeworld rise to the challenge and give us the apocalypse sheet to flatten 'em all ?

Raellos
30-09-2010, 05:19
and in storm of iron its deployed from a corrupted tyranid hive ship.

I self-retconned that to be a corrupted void whale :p I didn't remember any specifics when read it...

Iuris
30-09-2010, 06:46
Why oh why does noone EVER think that maybe, just maybe, there's more than one way to get thigns done? That maybe sometimes Tau let peaceful preachers be, while sometimes they need to take a fiery confessor stirring up the population down? That maybe a primarch had opposable thumbs and could grasp any weapon from an entire armoury to use in a specific battle?

Or that maybe Titans are transported around in a variety of ways? That sometimes you spend millions on a one use drop pod to get the Titan just where you need it as fast as possible, but in most cases save some money and slowly land one at a spaceport, minimizing fuel costs and drop pod refurbishment costs? That sometimes a supreme commander will get a full titan legion with its own specialized transports, and sometimes, he'll only get a titan or two and with the legion's own fleet busy elsewhere, will need to confiscate and convert a merchant vessel to get the titans to the war zone?

Variety. Something GW keeps reminding us of, but that this forum seems unwilling to accept :)

Lupe
30-09-2010, 06:47
In Rynn's World, the Crimson Fists have to secure a starport and take out AA batteries before they're able to receive reinforcements, and Titans are among the first things that get landed after that's done.

Edit: Not arguing with anyone, just bringing up another source.

Raellos
30-09-2010, 09:00
On that note, in the Heresy, the Traitors secured Lion's Gate spaceport so they could land Titan Transports.

MagosHereticus
30-09-2010, 11:32
In Rynn's World, the Crimson Fists have to secure a starport and take out AA batteries before they're able to receive reinforcements, and Titans are among the first things that get landed after that's done.

Edit: Not arguing with anyone, just bringing up another source.

hurray for spaceports! sucks when one cant be found at the beginning of a campaign though

AndrewGPaul
30-09-2010, 17:21
A starship's main weaponry is perfectly capable of creating a large, flat landing area if need be. :)

Lupe
30-09-2010, 17:29
A starship's main weaponry is perfectly capable of creating a large, flat landing area if need be. :)

If only it could create large unloading cranes and pulleys too :)

AndrewGPaul
30-09-2010, 21:31
In the same piece where it sowed that, the Titans (and Marines, for that matter) simply walked down the ramps. Like Marines disembarking from a Thunderhawk, only larger. Presumably the support equipment was assembled subsequently.

Skawolf
30-09-2010, 22:03
I don't know about you guys, but the only titan I have ever used could be dismantled into 5 different robots, a t-rex, tricerotops, mammoth, sabretooth tiger and pteradactyl ;)