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jhon
16-12-2008, 07:41
hi to all who reading this thread 。 here is my question ,if a dragon take an unsave wound from the whip in a challenge can the choas player force the dragon owner to do the following ?
A] forcing the dragon to attack the rider 。
B] forcing the dragon to attack itís own unit 。

a million thanks 。。

Neckutter
16-12-2008, 08:14
A) great question. the rules question is this: is a rider on a monsterous mount a different "model" than its mount? honestly it could go either way, but i would say that you could force the dragon to attack the rider.

B) the dragon can attack any other model on its own side, so yes, you can make the dragon attack its own unit, provided it is in base contact with a friendly unit.

shartmatau
16-12-2008, 14:31
By RaW I don't think you can force the rider to attack the dragon or the dragon to attack the rider because the two are considered one model by the rulebook.

But I don't play by RaW. To me the rule is intended to allow this. The whip specifies Monsters and Characters as the only things that are affected, chaos Characters have to challenge, and by the rulebook Monsters and Riding Cahracters deliver their respective attacks separately. While this may not be RaW, it makes sense.

Imagine this, a Character is standing next to a monster in combat. One gets hit by the whip, it then is forced to attack the other. Thats perfectly fine. But if the character rides the monster, it doesn't work. That doesn't make any sense.

I would allow the Whip to force dragon attacks on rider or vice versa. As it stands the whip is at the bottom of the list of magic weapons, and allowing this monster fun gives the whip some life and use.

Condottiere
16-12-2008, 14:33
Isn't there a spell where you have to attack yourself, but your mount doesn't join in?

Atrahasis
16-12-2008, 14:41
It's impossible to know whether a rider can attack his mount - the rules say that a monster and rider are a single model, but magic items and other effects treat them as separate (think of all the talismans that grant a ward save to "the model").

If you allow a character to attack his mount, then what happens when he attacks his horse? Does he actually attack himself?

stripsteak
16-12-2008, 14:50
By RaW I don't think you can force the rider to attack the dragon or the dragon to attack the rider because the two are considered one model by the rulebook.

But I don't play by RaW. To me the rule is intended to allow this. The whip specifies Monsters and Characters as the only things that are affected, chaos Characters have to challenge, and by the rulebook Monsters and Riding Cahracters deliver their respective attacks separately. While this may not be RaW, it makes sense.

Imagine this, a Character is standing next to a monster in combat. One gets hit by the whip, it then is forced to attack the other. Thats perfectly fine. But if the character rides the monster, it doesn't work. That doesn't make any sense.

I would allow the Whip to force dragon attacks on rider or vice versa. As it stands the whip is at the bottom of the list of magic weapons, and allowing this monster fun gives the whip some life and use.

i support this statement. by raw they are one model. for example "If a stand and shoot reaction kills the mount during a charge, the model is replaced by a foot version of the rider ..." but it's much more fun, and makes more sense if they are treated as separate.

shartmatau
16-12-2008, 14:57
Well, in the removing casualties section of the rulebook it talks about cavalry wounds. 'All shots are worked out against the rider.' So you couldnt force a character to attack his mount because its not allowed in the game to specifically target mounts with attacks, unless those mounts are monstrous.

jhon
18-12-2008, 08:14
ok, here is my next question ,let say A] the dragon can attack the rider and kill it and do 3 more over kill bonus .does that 3 over kill pts court toward the combat result too ?

nosferatu1001
18-12-2008, 12:15
Is the dragon in a challenge with the rider?

If it isn't, then there is no overkill.....

theunwantedbeing
18-12-2008, 12:21
The monster would be forced to attack it's rider.
It isnt allowed to attack anyone else that isnt in the challenge, so it's rider will be the only valid target.