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Nicha11
17-12-2008, 00:20
This is my Dogs of War army, ironically i keep hearing people say DOW is a weak army.

But this army looks surprisingly strong (maybe i'm wrong :cries:)

So what do you think? As always all comments tips and suggestions are welcome
:D

Characters

Paymaster, Crossbow, Heavy Armour, Biting Blade, shield
81pts

Captain, Barded Warhorse, Heavy Armour, Lance,
72pts

Wizard, x2 Dispell scrolls
110pts

General, Heavy Armour, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield
126pts

Core

25 Pikeman, Heavy Armour
275pts

10 Crossbowman
80pts

10 Crossbowman
80pts

10 Crossbowman
80pts

10 Duelists, Pistols
90pts

10 Duelists, Pistols
90pts

5 Heavy Cavalry, Barding
105pts

5 Light Cavalry, Spears
60pts

5 Light Cavalry, Spears
60pts

Special

10 Paymasters Body Guard, Heavy Armour
99pts

14 Bearmen
287pts

Rare

Cannon
85pts

4 Lead Belchers
220pts

Overall total 2000pts

Sidorio
17-12-2008, 01:04
ummm, you can't have 2 enchanted shields in one army can you

Nicha11
17-12-2008, 01:10
ummm, you can't have 2 enchanted shields in one army can you

If someone can point me to the page in the BRB to resolve this that would be helpful.

Edit: Never mind found the rule, and i've changed the list

selone
17-12-2008, 02:09
The list looks fine all though I'm no expert on DoW I do know they're not the strongest army in the world but theres no reason you can't win with them in your local gaming scene. I guess you plan to shoot them to bits with your pikemen hopefully taking a charge and then your harder hitting units (bearmen, h cavalry, leadbelchers possibly) smashing them in. Am I right? perhaps you could explain your general strategy because that helps us understand your army list a lot more, for instance whether you plan to play aggresively or defensively. Also what armies are you likely to face and whats your local gaming scheme like? I.e. are you pretty WAAC or not, do you see much magic use etc in your gaming scene.

One really tiny point for me I'd give my paymaster as much protection as possible. Being as how you're 2 points short and a shield for your paymaster is 2 points why not give him that?
Personally I'd put him on a barded warhorse (he'd have the enchanted shield) in a big bodyguard unit but I worry a lot and I guess that you can probably avoid him seeing too much action sticking him in a smaller unit out of the way. Although you've given him a magic weapon (admittedly a cheap one) so I guess you expect a little combat with him- may I ask would you be putting him in the unit of 10 bodyguard?

Nicha11
17-12-2008, 02:30
Well tactics,

My paymaster and his paymaster's bodyguard Will stay in the dead center
of my lines, but slightly back so as to prevent any combats I don't want.

My captain on warhorse will join the heavy cavalry who will do what heavy cavalry general do, kill stuff:evilgrin:

The wizard will just stay out of trouble and dispell any crucial spells.

My General will be with the Bearmen, with the general and its inbuilt character there is nothing this unit can't handle (though I have to watch out for frenzy.)

My pikeman will try to out grind any other infantry or cavalry they run into.

The crossbowmen will sit back and shoot.

The duelists will cover my inner flanks and annoy with their pistols.

the Light cavalry will look after my outer flanks and drive off weaker fast cav.

Cannon shoots Demons and MC's

Lead Belchers go dragon hunting!

Overall i think it is a defensive army with capacity for counter attack.

Makarion
17-12-2008, 05:11
One of your problems will be the completely lack of wardsaves. I know, you don't have items that give more than a 6+, but that's one of the reasons DoW have a bad name. You could consider going magic heavy (8 levels should suffice), and try to solve it that way.

All in all, I see nothing in your list that gives me the feeling I couldn't do it more efficient with an Empire list, duelists aside. The greater access to protective items for the Empire really seals it for me, I'm afraid. Which is a darn pity, since I am rather fond of DoW light horsemen, bearmen and the aforementioned duelists.

selone
17-12-2008, 15:42
Your tactics seem pretty good Nicha 11 :) I think you've summed up to me what is the essence of a DoW army, an army with a fair bit of shooting that when the enemy line reaches yours can unleash the cavalry and other hard hitting units.
I'd do my army slightly different to yours but theres no reason you can't have just as much sucess or more (probably more than me lol).

A few points about your army setup

Firstly I'm a bit worried that bar your pikemen unit a lot of your holding infantry are a bit small. 10 paymaster guard + your paymaster will mean you'll need to take a panic test if you lose 3 models to shooting/magic which even with a cautious setup can happen and they will only have a cr of +1 though I'd be suprised if you didn't get to pick your fights with that unit with all the MSU you have :) Your bearmen (nice choice btw they're one of the few worthwhile RoR units) will only be 15 models with your general for a CR of just +2/+3 and if you lose just one model to enemy ranged you'll drop to +1. You're fairly likely to be outnumbered too.

I'd recommend adding 5 models to the bearmen- 40 points for 5 more bearmen seems like a very good deal to me, 8 points each for a guy with WS 4, frenzy and a 4+ save in h-h is very good. Or you could just be very careful with them which is easier said then done as they're frenzied :)

I'd suggest adding 5 models to the bodyguard too and/or a champion. If you're absolutely sure they won't get into combat there's no need but if you're not sure about that, even if its to chase off scouts/fast cavalry/ things that come on the table edge etc then the extra combat resolution/panic protection is nice. The idea of the champion is to protect your paymaster against nasty characters if your opponents use them. It's very unlikely with your army list and the way you play you'll get hit by a big nasty unit witha powerful character but it is possible they'll engage a 'light unit' (which I've covered before) or a nasty char solo. For 10 points you can challenge the enemy characterand if you're very lucky win the combat or most likely lose it by a lot as the brave champion is munched but thats where the value of stubborn come in and hopefully the next turn the cavalry literally or metaphorically can charge in and save the day.

Speaking about the paymaster (and its a model which sums up the very essence of the army to me but yet losing him terrifies me) now you're using heavy armour and a shield if you were to lose the biting blade not only would you save 10 points you'd gain +1 save in close combat. I'm not sure that your unit of paymasters should ever be or would ever be fighting armoured foes or even then an extra -1 save on 2 A at ws 4 and s4 iirc isn't that impressive. I'd rather have the 3+ save in close combat than spend 10 points to have a worse save and hope that he can hit and wound something that has a better than 6+ save in close combat.

With the 10 points saved you could buy a champion for that unit for instance to add enemy big bashy character protection, upgrade your generals weapon, give your leadbelchers a bellower or add an extra model/musician to a different unit etc etc.

I see you've taken 4 leadbelcher's. I really like leadbelchers too though I use mine slightly differently and I play OK primarily. With a chance of multiple hits at s4 -2 save I'd use them more for fast cavalry/light-medium armoured troop killing than dragon hunting myself- you have better dragon hunting options available to you as a DoW option whether that be another cannon or OK ogres with great weapons. A sneaky tactic (apologies if you know this already) is shoot the enemy hope they charge you from enough distance so you'll likely get away and then rally. Leadbelchers normally take a full turn to reload out of base to base contact with the enemy however as a rally also counts for reloading purposes you can sneakily shoot again (assuming you pass their rally test that is). If they don't charge you, you could always charge them if you don't want to spend a turn reloading.

A few points about the construction of your army list from a mechanics point of view

This is a real nitpick btw but isn't 10 bodyguard's 100 not 99 points?

Page 67 on the Ogre Kingdom's army book says "in a Dogs of War amy, any Ogre unit with the Dogs of War rule counts as a Special choice". If this is still the case (and apologies if it is not) then you'd now have 3 special unit's with the option to take another OK unit with the DoW rule if you'd like and you'd only have 1 rare slot used. I'd heartily recommend another cannon if you could make the points up as you've identified DoW have real issues with dragons and indeed anything else 'big' whether that be dragon, wyvern, steamtank etc. 1 cannon can be very fickle but 2 gives you a lot more chance of landing cannonball on aforementioned beastie's bonce.

If you're still reading and not bored asleep thanks for taking the time to read this and apologies for the length. I didn't plan to write this much but the background and army setup of DoW interests me :)

Commissar Vaughn
17-12-2008, 16:15
One of your problems will be the completely lack of wardsaves. I know, you don't have items that give more than a 6+, but that's one of the reasons DoW have a bad name. You could consider going magic heavy (8 levels should suffice), and try to solve it that way.

All in all, I see nothing in your list that gives me the feeling I couldn't do it more efficient with an Empire list, duelists aside. The greater access to protective items for the Empire really seals it for me, I'm afraid. Which is a darn pity, since I am rather fond of DoW light horsemen, bearmen and the aforementioned duelists.

Huh? youve rather puzzled me with this post....most armies rarely include more than 1 ward save, with the exception of things like bretonnians...How is this a major problem? And how would 8 levels of magic solve this? There arent that many spells that provide wardsaves are there?

Empire might be more efficient but DOW win on cool factor.

Nicha11
17-12-2008, 17:00
If you're still reading and not bored asleep thanks for taking the time to read this and apologies for the length. I didn't plan to write this much but the background and army setup of DoW interests me :)

That was very a well thought out, and well written piece of advice :)

Selone why don't you put that in the DOW tactica?

Makarion
17-12-2008, 17:35
Huh? youve rather puzzled me with this post....most armies rarely include more than 1 ward save, with the exception of things like bretonnians...How is this a major problem? And how would 8 levels of magic solve this? There arent that many spells that provide wardsaves are there?

Empire might be more efficient but DOW win on cool factor.

Magic allows some wardsaves (admittedly, not many), but more importantly to fight mainly at a distance! Human characters being so squishy (And DoW ones more than most, at that), you really need to avoid melee as much as you can, unless it's strongly tilted in your favour.

Being an Empire player, I am all too familiar with characters dying to enemy infantry aiming their attacks, and the DoW characters have less protection - it'll only be worse.

As far as the number of wardsaves in an army - I am not sure on the lists for quite a few armies, but the following tend to include multiple ward saves at least: Empire (from Warrior Priests, the war altar, and 3 magic items), Bretonnians (obviously), Wood Elves (granted, the forest spirit save is easily negated, but still), Daemons, Dwarves, High Elves, possibly Tzeentz WoC.

selone
19-12-2008, 02:37
I may just do that nicha if I get around to it, thanks for the kind words :)

jhon
19-12-2008, 03:36
DOW is my favour fantesy army , though i lose most of my game with it but that was due to most of my opp is either a vc or a doc.
1] paymaster work better with drawf than body guard . NOTES , by every means DO NOT get him into combat !!!
2] take a wizard lord instead of a General , grnreal is cheap and good but the wizard lord is more able to deal with the nows day army .
3] have some small shield equip dualist unit , they are cheap and good at acting as flank guard ,and fast cav speed ram .
4] some ppl perfer the pikemen for that they can fighting in 4 rank and the asf rule but i would rather have more duslist or marauder
5]dow is not a competative army if you can take out half of your opp's vp you can consider you already have a minor victroy .