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View Full Version : A matter of curiosity - unit champions?



Lordmonkey
18-12-2008, 08:51
Most units have the option to upgrade a single model to a better version of themselves. Some of them are called "champions", some have other names such as "captain", "seneschal", "Ogre Mutant", etc...

In the BRB, there is only ever reference to "unit champions". What makes an Ogre Mutant a unit champion?

Condottiere
18-12-2008, 08:59
Better than average stats, I'd say. Probably an attack more.

Whitehorn
18-12-2008, 09:00
You're a question thief!

My beef with this procedure is why did they give unit champions unique names at all?

What's wrong with 'champion, standard and musician'?

Are we going to see 'Upgrade 1 skeleton warrior to a Drummer boy' and 'Upgrade 1 ogre to a flag-waver' and so on?

Was it supposed to add flavour?

To elaborate on the question, where in the rulebook or army book does it state a 'Ghast' / 'Ogre Mutant' / etc. is a champion?

Lordmonkey
18-12-2008, 09:14
You're a question thief!

Bah, you didn't post it so I did :D

AMWOOD co
18-12-2008, 09:34
Some of them are called "champions", some have other names such as "captain", "seneschal", "Ogre Mutant", etc...

Really? Some of them are called 'champions', just 'champions'? Which ones? I mean in the Empire book you don't see the term 'Champion' used once (sergeant, marksman, first knight, doomspeaker...) nor in the Greenskin book (they're all bosses).

It really is a little common sense. You will notice that all upgrades for a champion type model are placed together in the upgrades section along with the musician and standard bearer. You will also notice that only Dwarf Slayers and Grail Knights may (or must) have more than one champion model in a single unit (all Grail Knights are champions, blast it all).

There's a lot to say about the authors of all the rulebooks having to over-repeat themselves. The character section says that heroes and wizards may have different names, but that doesn't change what they are. Do we really need them to state such inconsequential things over and over again?

Necromancy Black
18-12-2008, 09:46
"Champions of units have various names depending on the army they fight for - Orc champion are called Bosses, while Empire champions are called Sergeants or Marksmen, for example. No matter their name, champions always follow the same rules."

From page 81 of the BRB. Second half of the first paragraph under "Champions".

Unless it states otherwise it is best to treat a unit model upgrade not called a Musician or Standard Bearer as a champion. There are some other out there, like the Ogre Bellower, but these have their rules described in their Army Books.

skank
18-12-2008, 09:47
Hmmm... Yes, it just adds a bit of flavour.

Never known anyone to be confused, it seems you are not either? Is there a problem with cool names for champions?

Whitehorn
18-12-2008, 10:02
There is no problem for me/us, but as someone who has played GW's major systems for 20 years and teaches people of varying edition knowledge, it's an observation made.

Put yourself in the ignorant position of being new to the current edition. Common sense is a poor argument in WH because it's quite abstract and falling back on previous editions (where they were simply called champions) is not a choice either.

So this struck me as something curious. I didn't post it because it was just mere curiosity, but since Monkey did, I may as well chime in.

Warseer is infamous for its pedantic debates so it's well placed here IMO :)

The rule on 81 helps, but I can still see a new (especially unaided) player wouldn't necessarily catch on.

Necromancy Black
18-12-2008, 10:10
Considering some of the things you need to remember and be aware of, this isn't that big a deal. Infact, you could almost see it as a baby step into all the weird rules and wordings GW constantly use :p

Condottiere
18-12-2008, 10:14
This isn't so bad - now imagine a system where you use experience points to determine which level your character is at, imagine further that at least the first nine levels have their own distinct names, and multiply by the number of classes available.

Whitehorn
18-12-2008, 10:33
Level One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight and Nine are all distinct names. What's your point? :)

Harwammer
18-12-2008, 11:28
Army books often describe these unit upgrades as champions in the bit before the list where it tells you about points/char limits, etc.

Toonces
18-12-2008, 19:44
This isn't so bad - now imagine a system where you use experience points to determine which level your character is at, imagine further that at least the first nine levels have their own distinct names, and multiply by the number of classes available.

I'm guessing you also wasted a large chunk of your childhood playing D&D.

Oh boy. My Monk killed a dragon with his bare hands and is now... oh... huh... Grand Master of Flowers. Oh... neat...

Condottiere
19-12-2008, 07:07
It might sound better as Sensei no Sakura. Well Hana, but I prefer Cherry Blossoms.