PDA

View Full Version : Flee/Break Overrun question.



omgadinosaur
19-12-2008, 20:20
So me and my gaming group are pretty new to Fantasy still and we ran into an encounter in a game the other day that caused some dispute.

The turn previous, a unit lost combat and broke, fleeing behind two other units so it ended up like this.

Unit 1 (runnin)
Unit 2 (normal
Unit 3 (normal)

Enemy cavalry who broke U1

The next turn was the "enemies" turn and Ecavalry and another unit declared a charge on Unit 3. Unit elects to flee. ends up like this

Unit 3(running)
Unit 1(running)
Unit 2(normal)

The cavalry then made their normal move and ended up charging into unit 3 who they broke in combat. Unit 3 rolled their fleeing distance and got a 3.

The cavalry rolled a 16.

Now the cavalry played said that he overuns all three units (as they where within 10 inches) Slicing Unit 2 where they stand and continuing on auto destroying units 3 and 1 in the process.

The other player disagreed, claiming that the rule book says that Unit 2 is cut down where they stand and do not go anywhere.

Now this obviously had big implications for the game, so we took it to a council vote and a Rulebook check. The council decided that it would appear that cavalry kill all three units, but we wheren't sure.

The owner of those units promptly resigned the game.

(Unit 1 where kroxigors.)
(Unit 2 was a 3rd gen slann with saurus warriors
(unit 3 was 20 skinks)


So I have come to Warseer to ask if we played this right. Help is greatly appreciated.

Lord Malorne
19-12-2008, 20:41
The unit that was in front of the other units (skinks) are cut down as they did not run far enough, they are cut down automaticly regardless of his distance roll(he just has to catch them) now they are dead, he can 're-direct' his charge into unit 2.

Unit 2 was behind the skinks, and are not fleeing, they can then be charged as in a 're-directed charge', unit 1 (fleeing kroxigors?) are fine as they where not the target of a charge and are blocked by unit 2.

He cannot run them all down unless they are all fleeing and then it is done one at a time with the 're-directed' charge rule.

NOTE: I use ' ' as I cannot remember if that is the actual name of that rule.

DeathlessDraich
19-12-2008, 21:06
Welcome to Warhammer Fantasy. :)


The next turn was the "enemies" turn and Ecavalry and another unit declared a charge on Unit 3. Unit elects to flee. ends up like this

Unit 3(running)
Unit 1(running)
Unit 2(normal)

The cavalry then made their normal move and ended up charging into unit 3 who they broke in combat. Unit 3 rolled their fleeing distance and got a 3.

The cavalry rolled a 16.

This is fleeing from combat - although from your diagram I cant see how that is possible. Maybe the arrangement is this:

<--- = direction of fleeing. E = enemy unit

<---Unit 3 EEE
<--Unit 1..,EEE
....Unit 2

The fleeing unit (3) is Caught (Movement and Combat chapters) by simply comparing dice rolls (unlike fleeing from a Charge).

(E) then moves its full distance and encounters unit 1 - This is Pursuit into Fresh enemy (see Combat Chapter) and is a charge where (E) is exempt from psychology but (1) is not.

Since (1) is already fleeing, it must flee again (Combat chapter - Subsequent action of Fleeing units) ; away from the charge.

This might bring (E) into contact with unit (2) (which is not fleeing) and this counts as a charge - to be resolved in the next turn unless (2) is in an unresolved combat.

(1) is only caught if (E) moves through its final position.

omgadinosaur
19-12-2008, 21:12
OK. I might not have made it clear but at the time that the skinks broke, the kroxigors and the slann where already fleeing.

It sounds like there should have been some extra dice rolled.

Also I may have messed up my diagram but they ended up in a line like this:

<--(U3 running) <---(U1 running)<--- (U2 running) (Cav)

Now it makes more since. Thanks for your help.

stripsteak
19-12-2008, 22:30
unit 2 got outrolled and so is destroyed. the cavalry unit would move it's full distance rolled.

When its determined their pursuit would take the into contact with unit 1 it is treated as a new charge, see pg 45 pursuit into a fresh enemy. in this case unit1 would get a charge reaction of either hold or flee, since it's already fleeing it would have to continue fleeing so it would get to do it's flee move them, if it doesn't move far enough then it can be caught.

The cavalries initial pursuit move continues and it is determined it would again hit into unit 3 they would also be counted as anew charge and would make a charge reaction(flee).

the cavalry doesn't get to just run down everything in his path at once. however if neither units rolled high enough of this flee attempts they would be caught by the cavalry, but thye still get a chance.

nosferatu1001
20-12-2008, 11:03
Omga - essentially the already fleeing units are not auto destroyed, they instead have to flee - if they THEN don't roll high enough they wojuld be caught and destroyed, as per a normal "flee" reaction.

To catch all 3 would be tricky, but not impossible.

Benevil
14-05-2013, 16:35
A question about the meaning of the Caught rule. The rule states:

All the troops are cut down as they turn to run, or are scattered beyond hope of regrouping — remove the entire unit as casualties. In reality not all the fleeing troops will have been slain, but any who've survived will be so broken in spirit that there's no chance of them fighting again this day.

Some units like the HPA can roll on a chart if they loose their lost wound. I am wondering if a HPA that is fleeing and caught, looses its lost wound. The first part of the rules explicitly states that the HPA would be 'cut down' and cutting something down would be concidered the HPA is losing all wounds. On the other hand, if the HPA is 'scattered beyond hope of regrouping', it doesn't loose any wounds (but is concidered running away, as if it is leaving the playing field).

In short: what is the definition of ‘removing something as a casualty’, in the context of the caught rule?
Does the caught unit loose (all) wounds?

AntaresCD
14-05-2013, 18:38
The relevant part of the question (the rest is just setup) is:

What happens after the enemy unit successfully catches the unit it broke?

Answer:
-First, the unit it broke is immediately remvoed as casualties (BRB page 56, Caught! section).
-Second, the enemy unit gets to complete its pursuit move (BRB page 57, Move Pursuers section - last paragraph is explicit that you still move if you caught the unit).
-Third, by measuring ahead you have found that the enemy unit's pursuit move would move it into the second unit (whether the second unit is fleeing or not is currently immaterial) (BRB page 58, Pursuit into a New Enemy section).
-Fourth, because of #3 above, you now resolve the pursuit move as a charge move (that already made it's charge distance). Also note that the now charged unit does not get to make a charge reaction (this includes fleeing - they must Hold) (BRB page 58, Pursuit into a New Enemy section - special notice to the last paragraph of the section where it explicitly describes pursuing into an already fleeing foe).
-Fifth, you have now completed a charge into a fleeing foe. That unit is removed and the pursuing unit reforms, if it wants to. Note that it does not continue on (page 58, Pursuit into a New Enemy section, last paragraph).

Your final position after all of this will be:

[Fleeing Unit that was all the way in the back]

[Enemy Cavalry that broke and caught one unit, then pursued into a second and destroyed it (because it was fleeing already)]

yeknoMehT
14-05-2013, 19:13
A question about the meaning of the Caught rule. The rule states:

All the troops are cut down as they turn to run, or are scattered beyond hope of regrouping — remove the entire unit as casualties. In reality not all the fleeing troops will have been slain, but any who've survived will be so broken in spirit that there's no chance of them fighting again this day.

Some units like the HPA can roll on a chart if they loose their lost wound. I am wondering if a HPA that is fleeing and caught, looses its lost wound. The first part of the rules explicitly states that the HPA would be 'cut down' and cutting something down would be concidered the HPA is losing all wounds. On the other hand, if the HPA is 'scattered beyond hope of regrouping', it doesn't loose any wounds (but is concidered running away, as if it is leaving the playing field).

In short: what is the definition of ‘removing something as a casualty’, in the context of the caught rule?
Does the caught unit loose (all) wounds?

Hmmm - you know this thread is nearly 5 years old?

Benevil
14-05-2013, 21:06
Hmmm - you know this thread is nearly 5 years old?

Yes, but the topic title and content seemed like the place to stick it in :)

Should I start a new one?

yeknoMehT
14-05-2013, 21:45
Probably better starting a new thread, since I think this thread pre-dates 8th edition...

AntaresCD
14-05-2013, 22:53
Hmmm - you know this thread is nearly 5 years old?
Arg, got sucked into thread necromancy...

That'll teach me to only read the date of the last response...

We've been seeig a lot of thread necromancy lately. I wonder if there is a way to auto-lock threads older than say, 6 months.

Blkc57
15-05-2013, 01:01
Arg, got sucked into thread necromancy...

That'll teach me to only read the date of the last response...

We've been seeig a lot of thread necromancy lately. I wonder if there is a way to auto-lock threads older than say, 6 months.

I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing a lot of weird thread necromancy lately, I myself was caught into a thread that predated 7th edition because I only checked the date of the last post. :p