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Cpt. Drill
20-12-2008, 00:29
Hi guys with the slow and steady compleation of my Chaos army my mind has started to wonder to the next army....


I am pretty sure I would like to do Vampire Counts or maybe araby. I am more inclined towards the VC army but araby keeps niggling away at me...


The main reasons for me choosing a specific army are:
Difference to preveous armys I have done (Chaos and Dwarves)
Different to my regular opponents (Undead, Dark Elves, Empire, Skaven, High elves)
Model quality
Potential conversion opertunities


I think both of the selctions fill these catagorys but araby seem a little bland... I am playing a fantasy game and I like the idea of ordering forth my legions of silliness! In spite of this though the Araby army could be used for other gaming systems like many in ancients and also as Haradrim in Warmaster middle earth... *Sigh*

Oh also some of the models look like they were good sculpts and then get a little melty... has anyone got any of these toy soldiers?


But I was wondering if anyone had some Vampire counts infomation... Tactics or advice?

I have had a look and been thinking that terror heros will be a big thing helping to turn the combats in your favour! But after that im lost... you can also take 4 units of heavy knights per 1000pts so i think I will be maxing out on them and I adore the spirit host models and would like to use alot of those guys... they are so nice! I also think that it would be best to have all heros on black coaches and was thinking of representing this with a necromancer with a zombie giant on his base... it represents the extra attacks and I imagine a zombie giant it a bit poo compared to a normal giant. I really like the idea of a necromancer who came accross a dead giant (aas apparently they like everywhere in the warhammer wourld these days!) and raised it as some kind of terrifying bodygaurd! I think it would really make him stand out.

Also I was thinking about mixing units... for zombies have a mixture of models from the actual zombie models, Halberdiers and Peasants... has anyone seen anyting like this befor? Possibly mixing in some other kinds of knights like bretonnians and empire to the mixture of the black knights...


Any thought would be good... I am swaying in the breeze...

fracas
20-12-2008, 01:13
other than chaos, what do you have already?

azraelezekiel
20-12-2008, 08:20
VC rock.
I did 3k of them and have never looked back.
They are a very nice army to paint but they can be completed very quickly.

As for tactics I max out on knights and then take max spell casters.
Charge in with heavy hitters plus heroes cast raise dead into rear of combat results in buttocks of death.

I have yet to lose with this army and my regular opponent dreads me saying that I am playing these :)

Cpt. Drill
20-12-2008, 10:50
other than chaos, what do you have already?

Chaos and Dwarves... I will have a 2500pts+ of chaos when I am done and I have over 3000pts of dwarves....


But are there any VC articles on the web? I have never seen them in action or in real life! They could just be some conspiracy...

fracas
20-12-2008, 17:28
imho you should choose an army that plays very differently from what you already have
1. dwarves: elite infantry
2. chaos: i assume elite knights and elite infantry

VC would be quite different without initiative moves, weak infantry and elite knights
other armies could fit the bill as well

Cpt. Drill
20-12-2008, 22:43
Well do you know how they play? I like armies that can potentially have a bit of variation in tactics. What are the winning moves for VC's? Or potential tricks?

Azraelezekiel I woould love to see some pictures of your army! Any info on them, seeing as you have an army?


By the way this plan is all speculation at the moment as I am going to try and play some more Middle Earth Warmaster, buts it salways nice to have an army idea festering away!

azraelezekiel
21-12-2008, 08:23
Will get some pics done when I have 5 minutes.
As for tactics.
They are a horde army so throw all your weak troops out front to slow down the enemies advance whilst using the harder hitting troops to make mincemeat out of the enemy.
Again take max spell casters and use raise dead at every opportunity to destroy enemy units.

azraelezekiel
21-12-2008, 10:54
http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/mickmarriott/warmaster/Vampire%20Counts/?albumview=slideshow
I will try and post them as a plog at some point.

Rufus_Shinra
21-12-2008, 14:52
Your army is awesome. Frikin' big!)))

Cpt. Drill
22-12-2008, 01:17
Really nice army! (are there any that you havent done?)

I didnt really like the gravegaurd models but your painting has put some of my fears at rest as yours look great!


How do you find some of the more specilist units? Ghouls, Spirits and grave gaurd?
Which do you rate higher zombies or skeletons?

Ghouls and spirits look great on paper but I wasnt sure if they would just be a bit of colour next to skeletons, zombies and Knights...

azraelezekiel
22-12-2008, 12:13
"(are there any that you havent done?)"
Yes :)
Araby, Bretonnian & Kislev out of the official ones, with no real plans to do any of them. Although I do love the fluff around brets and the models of Araby. The Kislev model range had just been discontinue dwhen I started collecting.
As for unofficial I plan to do them all with the exception of Ogre Kingdoms.

Our playing circle is very small (read 3) so to get folks interested I decided to collect nearly every army. That and the fact that I have an OCD when it comes to games ;)

Thanks for the nice words on the painting. But I really flew through these.

I don't like ghouls, as I never seem to get the required result from them. But they are useful for initiative charging.
Spirits are a nice addition due to their special abilities and Grave Guard give a well needed bit of strength to the weak infantry.

As for zombies or skeletons?
Depends from game to game, I do prefer zombies ever so slightly overall but there really isn't much in it.

Cpt. Drill
22-12-2008, 18:01
You should do those extra armies! I have to say your stuff is pretty inspirational you seem to have some many conversions and ideas! I was concidering skaven for a while but couldnt think up any cool conversions that you hadnt done...

I know I keep pestering but what would you take in 1500pts? or 2500?

I was thinking

General 150
vamp with black coach 120
Necro with black coach 85
4x Black knights 440
2x ghouls 110
2x spirit hosts 180
4x skeletons 120
4x zombies 140
1x Batswarms 65

thats 1410pts

1500 is a regular game for us as most playes have at leaste that, games tend to not last to long either. 17 units giving it a tidy break point of 9 so that is just about all the fodder infantry! Might add a black coach to the general as I want to have maximum terror in the army but want to be careful of him gying so maybe he needs some grave gaurd units to live in!

Would like to see what your list is!

Pugwash
22-12-2008, 23:58
Let me second others in saying that your VC army is awesome, azraelezekiel :cool:

You are at, where I'm aiming to be - in terms of having that many armies painted (although I won't be doing rats or lizards). It looks like a long road ahead for me, especially when I look at how much painting will be needed for my Orcs and Goblins :cries: So, an awsome body of work there azraelezekiel.

Drill, sounds like you're sold on the VC, and it's a good choice I think. When I eventually get around to doing my VC I want a 'night of the living dead' feel, so lots of zombies!

Had you considered doing Daemons? With just a few more painted models, you could use your existing chaos force interchangibly with them (i e demons = chaos warriors or chaos knights = demon cav). I haven't played them, but the swarms and instability look like they would add some elements to the brutal 'chaos rush' style of play.

Cpt. Drill
23-12-2008, 03:12
I have to say that demons were one of my first choices... After seeing how well (in my opinion) the pink and blue horrors turned out I really wanted to do an army of them... Demon beasts would be warhammer scale horrors. I was slightly put off by the idea because maybe a whole army made up of essentially two colours would be a bit bland...
I am not that sure about an army with dedications to all the gods either... it would look a bit hodge podge.


At the moment my focus is a bit more focused on warmaster middle earth I am trying to write up a comprehensive list of armylists and units! I just need to be thinking about my next warmaster project... something to mull over!


Oh an I am concidering araby again! And Bretonnians

azraelezekiel
23-12-2008, 10:39
Thanks pugwash.
O & G are my next army once I have my wood elves sorted. They are all sat waiting to be painted. Will probably be doing a few of the extras to turn it into a gobbo army too (pump wagon etc.)
As for daemons I love em. They really are a lot harder than mortal chaos but the instability rule can hammer you.
As for an entire army dedicated to one power I say go for it. I did 1k for each power and whilst they look ok it would have been better picking one or two powers to stick with (but which 2 ;))
Same goes for Mortal chaos.
I do have an OCD in regards this stuff though and after the undivided postings here I am now thinking about doing 2k of mortal undivided chaos :)

As for an army list for VC we play 2k points usually.
Here is what I would take for 2.5k:
1 Vamp Lord
1 Vamp Hero
2 Necros
4 skeletons
4 Zombies
0 Ghouls
8 Grave Guard
3 Ethereal Host
8 Black Knights
4 Dire wolves
2 bats

Break 17

This allows me 2 flyers to target enemy artillery or flyers.
Loads of shock troops using the dogs to shield my knights.
Use mixed brigades of infantry with the hosts up front as missile shields.

You may notice I do not take any terror causing mounts. This is just how I play so you may feel the need to tweak the list.

There is another way to play the list.
That is as a pure horde army with loads of skeletons & zombies and only a few cav.
Downside of this is the amount of models you will need the max amount of commanders to ensure the army moves. Also you will need a VERY big table ;)

It looks like this:
1 Vamp Lord
4 Vamp Hero
2 Necros
16 skeletons
16 Zombies
0 Ghouls
0 Grave Guard
0 Ethereal Host
4 Black Knights
8 Dire wolves
2 bats

Break 23

With 10 points spare for a magic item.
Your opponent will probably give up after about 3 hours of wading through the undead and still being 13 units from your break point :)

Again the list can be tweaked if you know what army you are facing.

I have said before and will restate this, always try to get raise dead off into the rear of an ongoing comabt. Even to the point of taking magic items to assist.
Nothing better than wiping out shiny chaos knights at 200 points a unit with this rag tag bunch and a couple of well placed spells.

Cpt. Drill
24-12-2008, 18:25
I do like the first list you made... but do you really need 8 units of grave gaurd?

I would definatly try and thumb in as many terror causers as possible... maybe they would help out with the invincible grave gaurds compared to the squashy mess that is zombies and skeletons...

fracas
29-12-2008, 13:21
i thought only vampires can ride blackcoaches (post #12)

since this thread started, i've too am contemplating starting VC

@1.5k
vampire lord
2 vampires
necro
6 skellies
6 zombies
4 wolves
4 knights
2 bats
break at 11
total 1475

azraelezekiel
29-12-2008, 16:42
Not enough magic.

fracas
30-12-2008, 01:42
do most use the 1k limits when playing at 1.5k?

Cpt. Drill
30-12-2008, 01:49
i thought only vampires can ride blackcoaches (post #12)


yes you are right! I love to cheat and hate to read fine print apparently!

Also yeah using the 1000pts unit limit works best... as a 1500pts army with 8 units of knights and two units of cannons would be horrible to fight!

It keeps it a bit more balanced.

I personally prefer to play 1500pts and 2500pts because then you get less min/maxing and have more (i dont want to say it) fodder in the army.

fracas
30-12-2008, 02:23
i agree with the 1k limits for 1.5k games
has a better feel with the composition
i also like to take the 2k minimums at 1.5k for the same reason

azraelezekiel
30-12-2008, 09:00
Yes 1k limits even for 1999 point armies ;)
Makes for a very interesting match.
We usually play 1750 pts with NO magic items. These are then selected from randomly drawn cards.