PDA

View Full Version : How to equip Chaos Ogres?



Death Korp
22-12-2008, 15:01
Hey guys

I was wondering how I would equip a unit of Chaos Ogres. I was thinking:

MoK, Great Weapons and full command (?)

I think i'll stick to the MoK and Great Weapons for the cool factor, but its the full command i'm not sure about...

Please help me!

DK

Dareus
22-12-2008, 16:53
Full command is a waste of points in my opinion for such a hammer unit.
You get another ogre (even with chaos armour) for these points. That additional ogre is 3 (moK 4) attacks compared to the one of the champion, 4 attacks will also more or less give you the additional CR you'd get with the banner, maybe even more and you would have 3 additional wounds.

But on the other hand I really would like to convert a command group. That would be just for coolness rather than competitiveness.

Neknoh
22-12-2008, 17:53
Three of them
Mark of Khorne
Chaos Armour
Greatweapons

That should be around 180 points of pure, unadultured slaughterfest

Marwynn
22-12-2008, 19:53
I prefer 4 myself. Great Weapons and MoK, with Warhounds to act as "blinders". Maybe a musician.

Darkangeldentist
22-12-2008, 23:37
I agree that the command group are a bit of a waste compared to an extra ogre. Although the musician is probably worth it.

I'd be more tempted to get the mark of Nurgle over Khorne. -1 to enemies WS makes them effectively WS4 so will hit many units on threes providing more hits in combat. More importantly though they are harder hit with shooting so less in need of screening by other units. Despite the loss in number of attacks there's none of the liabilities of frenzy.

Avian
23-12-2008, 09:17
As I reckon it, if you don't take standards and musicians, you might as well take Dragon Ogres instead for their increased movement. The option for command models is one of the few things Ogres have going for them.

My unit is:

4 Ogres
- great weapons
- chaos armour
- standard & musician
- Mark of Slaanesh

Lord Khabal
23-12-2008, 11:50
I agree with Avian but I use them as support so I only use 3 and no std...

Dageo
24-12-2008, 17:05
Glad a topic like this showed up, I was thinking of getting some ogres as they would fit the fluff of my army quite nicely :D

Thinking of giving them Chaos Armour, Great Weapons and a musician. As for mark, I suppose MoN would be best against WS 3 enemies (so the ogres hit on 3+), but MoK would be better against WS 4+ enemies. The average number of hits with both marks in those circumstances would be the same, but the MoN gives the added benefit of shooting resilience.

A quick question also: do people actually buy the GW Chaos Ogres or are Ogre Kingdom conversions common place? I think the metal Chaos Ogres look at a bit naff, but some greenstuff and a quick raid of the bits box could turn OK models into something more... chaosy.

At that, if anyone has experience doing this, would the Ogre Bulls models be the best to use, or the Iron Guts? The Bulls kit seems to give more options, but the Iron Guts come with 2H weapons and more armour (the helmeted heads look more appropriate too).

Kadrium
24-12-2008, 19:15
Mark of Nurgle is great on Ogres. 3 WS 4 attacks, along with the -1 to being shot (something that's always plagued ogres). If I wasn't taking Nurgle, I would take Khorne, but you have to be careful about being baited. I can see giving them the musician, but I probably wouldn't bother with standards.

I'd take the chaos armor upgrade most of the time.

Dooks Dizzo
24-12-2008, 21:36
Also note that a Champ in a unit of Ogres can be a liability. Four of them have a good chance of killing a Dragon on the charge with Great Weapons. But if the champ gets called out...all the other attacks go to waste.

Also, do not think of them as WS4 because of the MoN. There are PLENTY of WS5 units out there. Dark Elves in particular.

Marwynn
24-12-2008, 21:43
I agree that the command group are a bit of a waste compared to an extra ogre. Although the musician is probably worth it.

I'd be more tempted to get the mark of Nurgle over Khorne. -1 to enemies WS makes them effectively WS4 so will hit many units on threes providing more hits in combat. More importantly though they are harder hit with shooting so less in need of screening by other units. Despite the loss in number of attacks there's none of the liabilities of frenzy.

True, but then again the screens are quite cheap in this case and you're giving up an extra Ogre attack and the various benefits of Frenzy to be slightly harder to shoot.

4 Frenzied Ogres with a musician, Chaos Armour and Great Weapons, and of course their lovable dogs, is fairly cheap for what they can accomplish.

Frankly, there are also better targets for shooting too unless you're facing a gunline. I'd be more worried about being tarpitted or harassed in some other fashion. Hence the doggies. Much more flexible overall.

Slam
25-12-2008, 13:33
If you want a hammer unit then 3#+GW+ no command + no chaos armor everything else is waste of points. But honestly take dragon ogres if you want a hammer.

If you want them to take down infantry blocks on his own then 4#+GW+chaos armor+ khorne+ standard + musician. Champion is optional becouse that one attack often doesnt do much but if you have a warschrine then its a must, as he becomes like a +1 hero (3w, s6, a5) who can get EOG rolls. I personally prefer to take a champion anyway becouse I have a nice mini for it :-).
Theoryhammer:
This results in 17 S6 attacks that is about 7 wounds with -3 to save in avarage wich can put the hurt on most blocks who will only have 4 CR (ranks+out number) becouse you have a standard and a musician. (Next round you can probably aoutobreak them with fear, your US is 12)
The fact that they can have marks, and command makes them better for block breaking then dragon ogres.

Marks:
Nurgle isnt worth it as its expensive and doesnt do much (-1 to shooting wont save them if the enemy wants them dead and -1 WS is rare to make a difference).
Tzeench cheap but unreliable (atleast Im not rolling that many 6's :-P)
Slaanesh doesn't do much (they already couse fear and can reroll panic).
Khorne is worth every point (you screen them anyway and the +1 attack is always good compared to the -1 ws wich is very situational).

Eigilb
25-12-2008, 18:45
Sorry, but i'm a bit confused with you guys even discussing how to equip chaos orges - cause why even bother feilding them when you have the slightly more expensive option of Dragon ogres, who have, +1wound, 7 movement and therefore 3d6 pusuit disces.

Who not just take DO instead?

Neknoh
25-12-2008, 19:11
Because Dragon Ogres are vastly more pricey, will have (should the Ogres be khornate) fewer attacks per base and as such, will be worse with dealing with infantry (greatweapons gives strength 6 ogres, plenty enough to handle T3 and T4 infantry, be they elite or not). Furthermore, Dragon Ogres have a laughable save whereas Chaos Ogres can have a 4+ armoursave, more wounds might well mean a higher survivabillity against high-wound weapons, but against poison and lower strength, armoursaves might last you longer.

Boogyboy
25-12-2008, 20:23
Um. Dragon ogres got a 4+ armour as well. Scaly +5 and Light Armour = 4+

That said, I do have some issues with the Ogres as well. They're cheaper that's for sure... But then again they don't pack the Strenght 7 wup-ass like the D.Os!

As I see it, they are a little bit stuck between the Knights and the D.Os. But maybe 3 cheap ones with GW, Musician and mark of Slaneesh would be pretty neat? That's like 140pts of tactical ogres.

It is a shame you can't give em shields to go with the Chaos Armour, 2+ save in CC would have been crazy cool!

That, and some cheaper command options. 50pts is just *way* too much. :eyebrows:

Feel a rant coming on here. Better stop! :mad:

Slam
25-12-2008, 22:36
Why not to take dragon ogre?

Modelling reason:
Dragon ogre minis are expensive and ugly while ogre minis are cheap, good looking or if you dont like them can be easily converted.

Theoryhammer reason (blockhunting):
#4 Chaos ogre, chaos armor, great weapon, mark of khorne, standard&musician
X points = 16 attacks= 6,64 wounds before saves at S6 against CR=4
[3 (rank)+1 (outnumber)]

#3 Dragon ogres, great weapon
X-29 points= 9 attacks= 3,75 wounds before saves at S7 against CR=5-6
[3 (rank)+1 (outnumber)+1 (standard)+1 (musician if equal)

Wounds counted against enemy with WS4-5 and T3-4. The only time WS makes a difference on attack is when its WS3 then the dragon ogre recive a slight buff (4,9 wounds then, still below average enemy CR).
Bottom line if you want breaking power ogre are better against blocks, dragon ogre only excell against monsters or chariots who you can take on with your exalted hero anyway. They do have a better M, leader and WS but the lack of command is a bigger setback then the benefits these stats provide.

Kadrium
25-12-2008, 22:41
If you're going to mark Ogres, Slaanesh is pretty much the worst of the marks. Ogres cause fear so fear/terror isn't as big of a deal for them, and re-rolling panic on ld8 means they're not nearly as vulnerable to shooting as Ogre Kingdoms ogres are.

If you're going to mark, make it Khorne or Nurgle, and take the great weapons no matter what. Chaos armor is really optional, though I usually end up with it.

The whole reason for taking Ogres over Dragon Ogres is the fact that Ogres can be marked and are cheaper. Ogres also have the option for standards and the like.

There are uses for both.

And 50 pts "way" too much? Try playing Ogre Kingdoms. Ironguts are the best unit we have, cost 48, and have 1 less armor save and no panic re-roll. After playing Ogre Kingdoms for a couple years now, I consider Chaos Ogres to be firmly superior and a total steal, comparatively.

Zorlax7
26-12-2008, 00:15
I have to agree with Neknoh. I use that same set up and have found them to do perfectly well against average infantry blocks on their own.

Kadrium
26-12-2008, 02:42
Ogres shouldn't be taking on infantry blocks on their own. They are not designed to and they need some really lucky rolls to have even a chance of overcoming the static CR of rank-and-file infantry. They should have a supporting flank charge that's at least big enough to deny rank bonus, or they should themselves be the flank charger. Set that up and you practically can't lose the combat.

Chicago Slim
26-12-2008, 03:05
Lucky rolls, or, you know, a flank charge.

Put 4 (or even 3) ogres into the flank of an infantry block, and they have a shot at winning (not a certainty, of course: the infantry block will still have a banner and numbers; the ogres will have a flank and wounds...)

If you want those ogres to be more likely to solo vs. infantry (with a flank), then a banner is useful. If you plan to hammer with them up the front, then it's a liability (since they're going to be losing, and might give up 100 VP when they do...)

In a WoC army, where there isn't a lot of cheap troops, it's more likely that you're going to want to try for solo-flanking.

It should be noted, of course, that it's very possible to field a WoC army that uses marauder blocks with ogre fire-teams, in much the way that OK is set up (replace noblars with marauders-- who are more expensive, but also much better). Remember, a unit of 25 marauders with full command, light armor and shields is still under 200 points. Bring 4 of those, supported by ogres for flanking, and you've got a lot of love to give... and several hundred points left over for grotesque characters, to boot...

Kadrium
26-12-2008, 05:39
Marauders are generally too slow to keep up with ogres and work in such a fashion. Gnoblars suffer the same problem.

In order for people to declare charges against your marauders/gnoblars, they have to be the target out in front, offered to the enemy. That means 2-3 turns before charges are declared, as opposed to 1-2. If you're being exposed to a lot of shooting/magic, that's a long time for ogres to be hanging out there, not making it to the relative "safety" of CC.

Against fast armies like Brets or most any cav heavy army, its fairly viable for your marauders to catch/redirect for your Ogres. Against slower armies that are mage heavy or gunlines, you need those ogres running into combat asap. They work well flanking for eachother, or for knight units, with marauders and warriors coming in to clean up.

Chicago Slim
26-12-2008, 15:45
Uhm, yes, if the ogres were racing directly alongside the infantry, trying to hit the same target unit on the same facing, then the ogres would get there a turn earlier. . .

But I think you're misunderstanding a very important point: The ogres are targeting the FLANK of the enemy, while the infantry (marauders or gnoblars) are targeting the front. Moving up and positioning to the flank will take the ogres that extra turn, and in fact they can only get there in the same time as the infantry gets to the front... because the ogres move faster.


As you point out, Bret cavalry will give problems to this strategy, since they can pretty reliably break the marauders with their charge (12 knights have +1 static CR over 20 marauders, or -1 static CR over 25 marauders, but that's BEFORE they rain down 10 lance attacks and 9 horses, which have an EV of 5 more kills... Even 9 knights have a decent chance of popping 20-25 marauders). So, in that case, the basic idea -- of allowing the marauders to hold against the enemy charge, then piling the ogres into the flank on your next turn-- kind of falls down.

Fortunately, as you point out, you can use the same units to set up a slightly different tactic: sacrifice your marauders to allow your ogres a subsequent flank charge-- but now you're back to soloing the flank with the ogres, and you'll wish you had a banner for them... :)

Death Korp
27-12-2008, 13:46
Wow, thanks for the help guys :)

So, best way to equip them is:

4 Ogres
MoK
Great Weapons
Standard
Musisian

Sounds goood :)

DK

Daniel Skaven Blight
25-01-2009, 10:57
I was also thinking the same 3 ogres command and whatnot but having looked at it I found I would be better off with 3 ogres chaos armour and possibly GW' MoK and if points permitted a champ, Dragon ogres however as a unit are better with a higher M, WS, S and Ld but equiped with GW are a mighty 77 points but in the end it's either quantity ogres or quality Dragon Ogres

Wulfrik
25-01-2009, 12:57
Interesting army list idea there Slim... I already have the hordes of Marauders, I might just try adding the Ogres to see how that works!

W0lf
25-01-2009, 13:00
Take muscian and great weapons as a must.

Chaos armour preferably
MoK preferably.

Always take a Mus though as its nice to be able to flee and rally, and in the case of MoK how crap would it be to draw and lose frenzy? Or draw and break even...

Oh and i definatly wouldnt give them a standard. +1 Cr but +100 VPs = not a good deal.

Harfaern
26-01-2009, 11:25
In my club we play small battles (1500p.), and I always include 5 Khorne Ogres with GW, unit champion and standard bearer, and they always perform very well! Alongside with Knights in the center of the deployment, and 2 units of Horsemen Marauders and a Giant int the flanks, and a sorcerer level 1 with 2 dispel scrolls to counter heavy magic the first turns.

I'm trying to increase to 9 khorne Ogres with GW, Champ, Standard bearer with an Exalted heroe+Juggernaut. I don't know if it will be too much points in a unit.

Genrazn
26-01-2009, 12:09
That does bring something intresting to the table. Ogres and flanking cavarly combo could work very well wouldnt it?

Harfaern
26-01-2009, 15:33
A big unit of Khorne Ogres with GW can rush most of the enemy infantry units; the high elven Hoeth swordmasters are a trouble with the ASF and the 2 attacks S5, but against these I always send the Knights.

The Ogres against heavy cavalry always suffer casualties, but with the Great Weapons and the Frenzy they can wear away enough the cavalry to let someother unit finish the job.

They are not a pure anvil but, for Khorne's sake, sending them ahead to crush anything in their path is glorious!;)

Your Mum Rang
30-01-2009, 15:34
I am still debating Nurgle or Khorne mark. But then again I am playing pure Nurgle.

What would the best support for these boys be?

Neknoh
30-01-2009, 15:35
For them? They are plenty of support in their own right, if you really do want something, I do believe that this is one of them units on which a Warshrine blessing will be nothing but sick, since they can utilise most if not all of the results on the table whilst allready causing fear, and as such, getting to reroll that option.