PDA

View Full Version : CR questions that I have come across.



Asurasan
22-12-2008, 20:02
Alright. I have a few Combat Res questions that have come up lately.

The first has come up since I started by new Bretonnian army.

If a lance of knights charge and enemy unit and get stuck and flanked, then later another lance charges into the front arc, are all of the units in the front arc denied their rank bonus?

I personally think it would but I don't think the rules support it(It's odd because I'm arguing against something that would benefit my army).

Next. If fighting a chariot or unit of chariots in a combat and the chariot takes a wound from something S7 or greater. How much CR is the Chariot worth? 1 point per S7 wound dealt? The remainder of the wounds left on the chariot? Or the maximum total wounds on the chariot?

I think the last is the least likely but I felt like I should include it regardless.

And the third question is about multiple killing blows in a challenge. I'm fairly certain a killing blow is worth the maximum wounds on the model how many are multiple killing blows against the same model?

For an example, what if we had a 3 wound lord that takes two killing blows in a challenge. Would that be worth 3 or 6 total wounds? Also, what if the lord was down to 2 wounds when he took a killing blow. Is he still worth 3 or only 2?

I'm sure a few of these have been answered before but I can't seem to search-fu them out. You guys thoughts would be much appreciated.

Necromancy Black
22-12-2008, 22:25
With the Str 7 attack killing a chariot, it's the same as killing blow. You get the same amount of CR as their was wounds left on the model.

With multiple killing blows in a challange the first one gives a CR of all remaining wounds on the enemy model. All remaining killing blows count as dealing a single additional wound.

Remember that non-killing blow wounds may also give overkill, so make sure your oppanant rolls any saves he's allowed against them and add the succusful wounds to our Overkill total.

narrativium
22-12-2008, 22:47
Alright. I have a few Combat Res questions that have come up lately.

The first has come up since I started by new Bretonnian army.

If a lance of knights charge and enemy unit and get stuck and flanked, then later another lance charges into the front arc, are all of the units in the front arc denied their rank bonus?

I personally think it would but I don't think the rules support it(It's odd because I'm arguing against something that would benefit my army). You calculate the rank bonus for every friendly unit in the combat. At the end of the round, then for combat resolution you pick the highest rank bonus available to you. If a friendly unit is engaged in the flank or rear by an enemy unit with sufficient unit strength, then that friendly unit's rank bonus is effectively nil; if it would otherwise have been the friendly unit with greatest rank bonus, you'll have to pick the next highest rank bonus from the friendly units in that combat.

So, for your specific scenario: with two units engaged in combat, let's say one with 4 ranks (+3 bonus) and one with 3 (+2), and the first one also engaged in the flank by a sufficiently numerate foe, then its +3 wouldn't count. But the second unit's +2 would count, if it wasn't also engaged.

Neckutter
23-12-2008, 04:47
a unit that ISNT flank charged counts its rank bonus. so your second unit would get its rank bonus if it isnt flanked.

nosferatu1001
23-12-2008, 11:23
CR for killing blow - this is a long standing argument. The RAW states a single wound that kills the model outright, and never mentions you getting more than the 1 wound for combat res. There is no indication that you would get more currently*, however most players would play it that:

1st killing blow = remaining wounds left on the model at start of the combat this turn
2nd and subsequent KB = 1 wound per KB, up to overkill. As the model has NO wounds left at this point, no multiplier could kick in - same as if it were a one wound model.

Now with chariots it may or may not say something different; if it says "loses all remaining wounds" then you would definitely get CR of [all remaining wounds], howeer I would say you definitely never get CR of the profile wounds; that never really makes sense!

*possibly in VC with the red fury special power, I seem to recall you could KB something and would get thre remaining wounds as extra attacks. This is just a tricky one however!

Whitehorn
23-12-2008, 11:48
CR for killing blow - this is a long standing argument. The RAW states a single wound that kills the model outright, and never mentions you getting more than the 1 wound for combat res. There is no indication that you would get more currently*, however most players would play it that:

1st killing blow = remaining wounds left on the model at start of the combat this turn
2nd and subsequent KB = 1 wound per KB, up to overkill. As the model has NO wounds left at this point, no multiplier could kick in - same as if it were a one wound model.

Well written and that's how I play it, but I will add this:

You slay a model with 3 wounds by scoring 3 killing blows.
These killing blows hit at the same time. Why should 1 of those attacks slay the model, granting 3 CR and the other 2 hits stack +2 CR. It is 3 simultaneous wounds, all equally killing the model outright and dealing a wound. This situation is my only issue against giving the player 5 CR instead of 3.

nosferatu1001
24-12-2008, 09:34
While they are simultaneous, as the wounds "slay" the model you need to resolve them in order essentially - if you remove normal wounds first the KB would be worth less CR with the "remaining wounds" idea - which is probably exactly why they wrote it such that KB only ever gets 1 wound for CR, to avoid this situation.

Fellblade
24-12-2008, 19:15
*possibly in VC with the red fury special power, I seem to recall you could KB something and would get thre remaining wounds as extra attacks. This is just a tricky one however!
The FAQ didn't address killing blow, it addressed the Frost Blade. I don't have my book with me to get the wording, but I know its different from killing blow because armor saves work and it works against anything... even steamtanks.

Lazarus15
25-12-2008, 00:38
Rulez Boyz and all of the stores up here in Washington are saying that you do get all the remaining wounds from killing blow, same with S7 against chariots.

Fellblade
25-12-2008, 01:08
Rulez Boyz and all of the stores up here in Washington are saying that you do get all the remaining wounds from killing blow, same with S7 against chariots.
The problem is, GW worded the two totally differently.

Killing blow: "If a model with killing blow special rule rolls a 6 when rolling to wound in close combat, he automatically slays his opponent." (pg95)

Chariot vs Str7: "If a chariot is hit and wounded by an attack of Strength 7 or more, and fails any saving throw it might have, it loses all its remaining wounds and is removed" (pg63)

Frostblade (VC): "If a model suffers one or more Wounds from the Frostblade (after saves, etc) they are slain outright and lose all remaining Wounds." (VC pg84)


Killing Blow makes no mention of losing all remaining wounds, unlike the other two. This is why its very difficult to argue you gain bonus CR for remaining wounds when you KB a character, but for the other two specificity say you lose all those wounds.

sneb
25-12-2008, 02:18
I believe it mentions under wounds(don't quote me on this) that a model is considered slain (I think it uses this word) when it is reduced to 0 wounds, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that between 3 wounds and slain a character would have at least 3 wounds. for combat resolution it would be best to get combat resolution for removing 3 wounds of this character with killing blow then an extra for over kill with the other killing blow attack since there is no extra wounds to remove the attack would count as 1 wound. This is atleast, the ruling in my area that is always used.

Lazarus15
25-12-2008, 22:29
The point I am making is that if the same company that makes the game, plays it a certain way, then that is the way it is supposed to be played. In my personal opinion, the people that first started this debate, on the side of the "do no get combat res" were disgruntled from some game in their life, where killing blow ruined them.

This isn't directed towards anyone on this thread, just me ranting in general.

Condottiere
25-12-2008, 22:35
Our group plays it this way:

If a model has KB, it needs to be declared and dice have to be rolled in sequence in order to establish if and when a KB takes place. If a KB succeeds, the remaining wounds are removed and counted; any additional KB counts one to the CR in the challenge.